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why do players stay in npc corps?

First post
Author
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#81 - 2015-02-12 00:31:40 UTC
Shailagh wrote:
Caleb Seremshur wrote:
Kaelynne Rose wrote:
So erry single person here can agree that what ccp said "awox fears" are NOT THE REASON either people stay in npc corps or that ceos dont recruit more???

Good job doing ur research before nerfs ccp. I just did ur research for you in 1 day, NO players dont hide in npc corps cuz of awox fears. Nice "necessary for retention and money" card for the nerf reason though.


I didn't know you had access to the quitting players survey?

Golly it looks like you only have the forums, a venue where people with an already higher than normal degree of dedication go.

Put a sock in it.


Ccp has TOLD US many many times that people in npc corps and that people that only pve solo quit way more often than others. That is why they SAID they are making the antiAwox change and the social corp change.

You are ignorant.



They are using very poor logic than.

If someone is uncomfortable with group play for personal reason or bad experiences with corps/guilds/clans in EVE or some other game, or maybe even have a busy career and kids and have no time other than to log once a week to run a few missions, forcing them to join a corp will just make them quit faster.

The attitude you are describing is akin to saying to someone "how can you possibly hate chillie? Here let me force feed you a chillie pizza and then you will see the error of your ways and find you really love it".

If that is really CCP future strategy all they will achieve is force those types of players to quit even faster.
Shailagh
6Six6Six6Six
#82 - 2015-02-12 00:42:34 UTC
Hasikan Miallok wrote:
Shailagh wrote:
Caleb Seremshur wrote:
Kaelynne Rose wrote:
So erry single person here can agree that what ccp said "awox fears" are NOT THE REASON either people stay in npc corps or that ceos dont recruit more???

Good job doing ur research before nerfs ccp. I just did ur research for you in 1 day, NO players dont hide in npc corps cuz of awox fears. Nice "necessary for retention and money" card for the nerf reason though.


I didn't know you had access to the quitting players survey?

Golly it looks like you only have the forums, a venue where people with an already higher than normal degree of dedication go.

Put a sock in it.


Ccp has TOLD US many many times that people in npc corps and that people that only pve solo quit way more often than others. That is why they SAID they are making the antiAwox change and the social corp change.

You are ignorant.



They are using very poor logic than.

If someone is uncomfortable with group play for personal reason or bad experiences with corps/guilds/clans in EVE or some other game, or maybe even have a busy career and kids and have no time other than to log once a week to run a few missions, forcing them to join a corp will just make them quit faster.

The attitude you are describing is akin to saying to someone "how can you possibly hate chillie? Here let me force feed you a chillie pizza and then you will see the error of your ways and find you really love it".

If that is really CCP future strategy all they will achieve is force those types of players to quit even faster.



Lmao i know right!? Ccp said thats theyre logic. Its stupid

Dude read the csm summit mins and recent devblogs. This is ccps new strategic plan. Its laughable as you point out
Syn Shi
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#83 - 2015-02-12 01:14:54 UTC
Because its a sandbox where everyone's choice to play how they want to is valid.
Jenshae Chiroptera
#84 - 2015-02-12 03:21:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenshae Chiroptera
Tipa Riot wrote:
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
You regularly stroll down and as a matter of routine to an area of null sec, to shoot at players, where they follow the belief of independance to infuriating levels.
I'm always happy to provide content. Pirate
I mean that you harp on about independance as though it can only exist in a NPC corp in high sec.
Vic Jefferson wrote:
Intar Medris wrote:
Because they are war dodging carebears with an antisocial personality disorders who play a MMO, but don't want to deal with other people.Pirate



Who is more of a carebear? A few week old players who can barely fit ships, or the large group of veteran players clinging to hisec and deccing them?

Pot, I'd like to introduce you to kettle.
Can we get this on the log on screen, please? Big smile

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.

Captain Davison
Malachi Keep Detachments
#85 - 2015-02-12 05:32:24 UTC
Reasons I'm in a solo corp (Ish):

1) Holdover from when I split off from another corp that had the brilliant idea to drag 25-40 industrialists/PvE'ers scattered across every timezone on the planet out to nullsec.
2)Ever since my old main account was allowed to lasp, I haven't gotten around to temporarily reactivating it to transfer control to my new main.
3)Putting together a new group slowly, but still encountering the same issue of '10-20ish industrialists/PvE'ers/Destroyer-pilots/surveyors/miners from every single timezone on the planet' and having trouble bringing them all together and levering them out of their old corps.
4)Why in gods name would I want to hire somebody off the street I don't know who might want to shoot me in the head?
Whittorical Quandary
The Asteroid is Depleted
#86 - 2015-02-12 06:52:04 UTC
There's definitely a slew of reasons to drop out of a player corp, the vast majority to me involve wars:

Wardec's

-New players are rarely prepared with skills for combat.

-Players have a lot to lose and very little sp put into combat ships to do much of anything.

-It takes a larger amount of active corp members to counter a wardec corp if you have new players, and many corps have very few combat willing pilots on at the same time. A bit too many small corps and alliances that are too small to field enough players to do much of anything imo,

-Industry players have industry implants that are useless in pvp and often become massive collateral damage if they try and counter attack a wardec corp that attacks them system.
(24 hour clone jump time traps you as either a combat or indy player for 19-24 hours)

-If you're corp cannot put up a fight you're effectively crippled to do much anything in HS, New players don't have the sp and experience to survive NS and WH space which becomes safer to be in during a war. You can stay out of trade hubs and trade routes but there will always be some that roam.

-As a result of these, greif corps can wardec hundreds of corps with little worry for retaliation.

-With good corp leadership Awoxing is a little issue vs dealing with wars.


Some Ideas I'll throw out:

1) Reducing clone jump times allowing players to hop between indy and combat implant pods more easily.

2) Possibly having a minimum amount of players to create a corp. Small corps are doomed in any wardec and there are hundreds of small 1 -10 character corps that are couldn't even do anything if they tried, with half easily being alts. ie: WoW has a minimum amount of players that must sign a guild charter to start a group and imo it works well.

3) With the friendly fire toggle change and well run corps leadership, Awoxing will be at more of a minimum. Though I feel awoxing and ganking should always be a gameplay function and should not be nerfed completely away.

- With more pvp players greif wardeccing corps will become a much more risky and dangerous thing leading to fewer wardecs.

-Integrating common game wisdom and good practice into the tutorial for new players.
(IE: Don't fly what you can't afford to lose. Explaining the importance of higher defense fits on indy ships. If a contract seems too good to be true, be wary of accepting it)




"The trouble with quotes on the Internet is that you never know if they are genuine."

— Abraham Lincoln

Dalloway Jones
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#87 - 2015-02-12 07:21:26 UTC
I lucked out and ended up in the NPC corp CAS on my main when I first started playing (Gallente were the only races whose avatars I could stomach before they upgraded to our current version). CAS is an NPC corp that organizes events for a bunch of different play styles and are quite helpful. Some of the members have been playing for many years. I am too busy IRL to play as much as most people so it is nice being able to go away and then come back and some of the same people are around and I can just hope back in as if I hadn't been gone.

I doubt CCP will ever get rid of NPC corps but if they did I would probably end up canceling my accounts.
Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#88 - 2015-02-12 11:58:07 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
I mean that you harp on about independance as though it can only exist in a NPC corp in high sec.

You can declare or perceive independence towards and with different entities of course. As a corp you can be independent and not being part of an alliance, as an alliance you can hold your own sov but be independent form any of the big coalitions. It's purely subjective ... if I would join a VOLT corp certainly I have to follow the Provi rules and contribute to the agenda, which is not bad in general, but not what I like and would call independent personally.

I'm my own NPC alt.

Mina Sebiestar
Minmatar Inner Space Conglomerate
#89 - 2015-02-12 13:29:12 UTC
They dont thrust other ppl.

They cant follow corp requirements or want to do things solo.

Politics contrary to popular belief is not why they decided to fly internet spaceships.

You choke behind a smile a fake behind the fear

Because >>I is too hard

Machagon
Plate of Beans Incorporated
#90 - 2015-02-12 14:03:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Machagon
Answering the question in the title.

I stayed in the starter NPC corp for quite a while when I started simply because I wasn't interested in socializing. I was very happy with the solo playstyle, and I'm a little anti-social to begin with. I just didn't want my relax and shoot spaceships time to also be chat with Internet peeps time.

I think that's probably it for a lot of people. They want to experience EVE as an essentially single player game, with other players
providing content but not social interaction. And there's nothing wrong with that.

Of course, I was eventually recruited into a player corp after asking exploration questions in Rens local and it was a great experience which led me to eventually form and run a corp of my own. It's a different game for me now that I have friends to fly with. If I had kept playing the solo game, I'm sure I wouldn't still be playing now, almost six years later.
Cronbrook
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#91 - 2015-02-12 14:15:12 UTC
NPC corps rock,

I have a 2004 player that has been banned from 0.0 more less on someone else's word that he was an awoaks'er

so player corps can suck it :)

I sold him in 2013 now I chill out in npc corps

not all players have muti accounts to play with.... I do but I know most don't

:)

almost 11 years and I am still here



are we having fun yet?

Nick Bete
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#92 - 2015-02-12 17:34:19 UTC
Because I choose to. That's all the justification that's needed.
jurgen b
Papal Zouaves
#93 - 2015-02-12 17:41:33 UTC
Thorav wrote:
Because we want to play by ourselves?

No, im serious, Im surprised that no one else has really expanded on that.

I've been in the NPC corp for 5 years now, and I've never left since I started playing EVE. I have no desire to be small part of a big system. Like f--k, if i I wanted to be a tiny cog in a giant machine of thousands of people, I'd go and work for a financial firm in a cubicle from 9-5.

I, and i suspect, many players, want to make a mark on the game, but i'll be damned if i have to rely on hundreds of other people to get **** done. I will never be able to claim any accomplishments then. I will never kill a titan. I will never hold sovereignty. I realize these unfortunate truths. "So join a corp!" you all say... but then, it wont be ME accomplishing any of those things. I will be the guy who contributes 0.000234% of the damage to that one titan, that one time.

As counter-intuitive as it may initially seem, being in a corporation (read: being in a group in life) robs you of all personal accomplishment. You can't claim anything as being your own doing because you're now relying on others. I want to play video games to escape the social constructs of real life. So f--k, I ain't gonna APPLY and JOIN those very same constructs in the game!

Thats the main reason for me. The other is the elitist, bullshit attitude that plagues EVE. Granted, i realize that its better than a lot of the attitudes that plague most MMO's, but damn can it be annoying. I dont want to serve an FC, who is really just another player, most likely with no real-world tactical knowledge, but who act like gods with self-imposed authority because they're the best at blowing up pixels. I don't want to be forced to use specific, doctrined ship fits, or do specific things that are mandatory.. like holy hell its stupid... MANDATORY ship fits and tasks... in a VIDEO GAME. Nothing in a game should be mandatory, that's what makes it a game.

"But the ship fits are doctrined not because they're trying to force you to do something you dont want, but rather, because they're EFFECTIVE" you all say. Granted, but i should have the right (correction, i DO have the right) to play the game however i want to, fitting my ships however i so choose.

"But then you're jeporadising the mission, and the battle! If you have a ****** fit, you could lead to everyone else losing!"... Guys, its a videogame. Calm down. You should have the agency to do what you want. Real life is where you go if you want to do things that are forced. That isn't what i play for. I am not playing a game only to find out that its really just like real life. That aint fun for me.

"So quit those ****** corps, then!" you say.... but we're talking about WHY players dont join them, so that point is moot in this case.

Lastly, I see no advantages to joining a corp. What am i going to do in goonswarm? All of the ****** things i described above, and the rest will be things i do on my own time. So what, i have access to corporate hangers and corporate wallets and new bases across the universe? Those things dont REALLY matter, and you can get 99% of them from other players in noob corps, if you're nice.

"But dont you want to participate in big fleet battles"
No

"But dont you want to hold sovereignty and make a change in the world"
Yes, but not at the cost of what's required.

"But dont you want all the help and comradery that comes with being in a corp?"
Newsflash, there's no difference in personality between people in corps, and people in the noob corp. You can have the same help and comradery in the noob corp, so long as you're not an ass.


Tl;Dr: I personally dont want to join a corp because i hate the idea of being a small part of a massive entity. That's what real life is for.

I suspect that for other players, it's partly that, and partly because the 'advantages' of being in a corp dont align with the goals and interests of the player, and are thus rendered null and void.




Some of us like star wars and star trek stories, where we can have friendly entities spraid over the galaxy occasionaly without bein a part of them. I would love to see foreighn trade hubs outside empire space where you can go to without bein KOS, protected by players and where you pay tax to get in and trade some stuff at a station, that tax is to pay The player guards, places where you can go to, for example "miners as freelancers" to find a job in organized CO-OP fleets for that day or so, you create story because pirates want to take that down :) it would be some kind of way to make it attractive for people to leave high sec. Outside high sec there is no place for freelancers or newer players, you cant go anywhere unless you join a entity and then you live in that bubble, i like to be a freenlancer and travel all over the galaxy some new players like that to. High sec is like EU and everything around outside high sec is like some countries in the world where you would step outside the plane and you get shot :) or blown up by some terrorist :) EVE has so much tools to create awsome overall gameplay appealing to everyone without nerfing more, but people dont utilize that. I feel it is up to community to help EVE grow, CCP can not do it alone anymore. What CCP can do is create a alien race so some players can play an alien race Lol i know EVE has the tradition, " dont trust anyone" and "shoot everything you see" axe questions later in convo. EVE has so much more potential without the need of putting more stuff in the game. but somehow 1 side is the FP- shooter KOS, and the other side of EVE is a gigantic capitalism simulator. and somehow the space story is lost. and if CCP try to brake this two sided game a bit to create more space story then we are often rioting to brake it appart again. i guess we dont like people who have the star wars story in mind Lol
Sisohiv
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#94 - 2015-02-12 19:49:54 UTC
PC = Player Career
NPC = Not Player Career

I've been gone from EVE for as long as 8 months at a time. I've never came back to find my assets sitting in a station I'm now locked out of.
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#95 - 2015-02-12 22:33:01 UTC
It is worth mentioning that the majority of highsec wardecs are not honorable attempts to engage other players in glorious pvP space batttles. They are either political (moving competition out of a system) or more commonly straight extortion, offering to call off the wardec if X billion ISK is paid.
Iyokus Patrouette
Buccaneers of New Eden
Liquor Legion
#96 - 2015-02-12 22:52:57 UTC
"Don't ever join a player corp, NPC corp is safer"

Part of an actual conversation i overheard in The Scope while i was between glorious wormhole corps. Cry

---- Advocate for the initiation of purple coloured wormholes----

BrundleMeth
What IU Doing
Brothers of Tangra
#97 - 2015-02-13 00:02:39 UTC
Nick Bete wrote:
Because I choose to. That's all the justification that's needed.



Facking right...
Aston Martin DB5
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#98 - 2015-02-13 00:41:39 UTC
Why do I stay in NPC corps? Because I don't enjoy going through a 25 step process just to be invited. You need teamspeak, vent, gaggle, online interview, online interview questions answered, your account information along with your api numbers >>>> ETC ETC ETC.

Like are you F' serious?
Khergit Deserters
Crom's Angels
#99 - 2015-02-13 01:42:22 UTC
If it hasn't been said before: It is impossible to wardec and get easy kills on a player in an NPC corp. Partizans can avoid overwhelming application of force against them by being in NPC corps. Cowardly? No. Waiting in the woods... maybe.
Diemos Hiaraki
Septentrion
#100 - 2015-02-13 05:34:07 UTC
Shailagh wrote:
Im trying to make ccp money here. They have data that shows people that stay in npc corps quit more often. They said corp ceos dont like recruiting noobs cuz of fear of awox, do you believe this is the main reason?

I believe people stay in npc corps (and therefor quit more often) to evade wars.

Are wars the most dangerous aspect to retention (players staying in npc corps) and therefore should be nerfed to increase player corp levels and retention?

Nerf wars to save the noobs and make people join player corps to increase retention and ccps wallet?


When I started playing there were 55+k online every day. Noobs do imo need a hand - Eve is stale and the vast majority of it's high sec mechanics make **** all sense to even seasoned gamers. I took a year away from Eve, and when I came back I witnessed a log on of roughly 20k online and that was before the isboxer restictions (I blame the mechanics of sov null more than anything else for the drop in players online however there are those who just like to pick on people too.) I've come beck to the awesomeness of Brave and NPSI and I totally missed the boat with both of them - I cannot endorse either more as brilliant player made additions to Eve, but even these haven't turned things around. I've seen the result of CCP and CSM actually appearing to work together - not perfectly, but I'm really positive about how they have done so far... I never thought I'd say that. However, I've seen the grossest roleplay I've ever witnessed in any game praising some barely literate septic as god and saviour, witnessed the grossest sexism and racism all in the name of 'content creation.' I watched powerless as a seven year old subscriber (and carebear) had so much grief that they've biomassed - with all their characters - just because of their sex and sexual preference. That harm cannot be repaired, but in an npc corp there are many whom feel safe from that kind of harm despite it often being 'more expensive.'

My oldest friend is in Eve gone because 'content creation and roleplay' - that's going to be the excuse I think by those who caused the effect, not 'I'm a rasist sexist' ****. This is someone who played for seven years, not some noob; someone experienced in the best and worst that Eve can deliver. Regardless of whether you think they were a worthy Eve player or not - they're gone, they're not coming back and you no longer have the opportunity to shoot them, abuse them, ridicule them or anything else. Being in an NPC corp for that person I think would have been a wiser choice, but Eve used to be a community and it doesn't really come across as that anymore to me or them. It's the Team America definitions of dicks, cunts and assholes.

Make someone afraid to leave station - fine, that's Eve; great strategy sometimes. Make someone afraid to leave their RL house, and frankly you deserve what you would get in Eve imo - sudden death. The longer I've been in Eve, this is getting worse with folks roleplaying being evil, serving a prophet or what have you. I'd like it to stop, but i know it won't and that's why I want high sec to die forever - this kind of crap is more pervasive in high. It's pretty much none existent everywhere else I've been frankly.

War decs do the same - they don't encourage combat, they encourage folks to quit the game and play something more engaging in my experience. CCP spends loads of money on advertising and players who aren't shepherds (sheep in other words - too lazy to see the big picture) hammer newer players before they've had time to adapt to the harsh environment that is Eve. Now I don't think that's entirely the fault of the folks wanting to fight obviously, but I do find it odd that anyone would expect anyone who doesn't want to fight or doesn't know how to fight back to engage when running from a lost cause is a huge part of PvP (if you want a decent kill board - but there is always someone better than you.) The first time I was war decced I'd just been given a drake and I didn't want to lose it because it cost so much and bare in mind a retriever used to hold close as a venture does now in ore...and I did end up quitting - I think it was for nine months; nine months of sweet subscription money that CCP missed and nine months you lot had missed killing me with impunity with a tank that would have consisted of a civilian shield booster and that's about it I was that stupid.

After all that I'd agree that NPC corps are a massive problem - I'd like to chose my corp whether NPC or not for a start. For me though the solution is to enroll any players not in a player corp into faction war (sorry FW guys, I know that would cause problems in of itself.) Eve online's biggest problem is getting high sec players engaged with both the community and PvP from the word go imo (in other words, those who have taken the mantle of high sec carebear ARE a lost cause - I agree with 'content creators' who think that,) and i think the only sensible way to change that is to change the base structure of Eve online and get rid of high sec. If you want to solo L4 missions, mine or whatever, hide behind players, not concord. Be a part of Eve not apart from it - for that to happen high sec has to go and I honestly think it is inevitable that it will do - and soon. Concord is going to be busy with a new threat, an NPC threat... I hope.

If what I suspect is true, war decs/npc corp isn't going to make a damn bit of difference - it'll be Eve - massive smiles and tears and it will be glorious. Long have I seen CCP Seagull as Diogenes waving a lamp looking for honesty, but not the cynic - a pragmatist; occam's razor looking for the simple hypothesis to a complex problem regardless of what folk think. Even if I'm wrong I still have faith in her vision. 'Content creators' like the saviour of high sec seem to be worried in the meantime - maybe with good reason.