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Want to start PvP - ECM Focus - Tips, advice, and comments
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Alexi Drakenovic
Doomheim
#1 - 2015-02-12 01:18:01 UTC
Hello my fellow Capsuleers!

You may have seen my post before about starting PvP, however, after looking through SiSi and just general fleet operations and the like, it got me thinking of an ECM focus, i think it will be fun and keep my on my toes, and id be really pumped to try it, keep in mind this would just be for fleet stuff, not solo, and i was wondering if this is a good choice if i wanted to get into said fleet stuff, I was looking at progression and it seems alright, i like the idea of being a massive support platform, but as far as fits go i only know what I've read on EVE Uni, and while i think the fits I've made are boss, I'm still a noob, so my idea of an uber fit might be a crap one, so any advice or tips you have would be great! Thanks for reading!
Trey Kutoi
SergalJerk
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#2 - 2015-02-12 02:12:36 UTC
When you say ECM, are you referring to ECM jammers (the ones that stop you from locking onto stuff at all) or do you mean electronic warfare in general?

While ECM is powerful, it only really makes a difference in small gang pvp (anything larger, and you won't have enough jammers to take them out before they all lock you and instablap. Keep your wits about you, and train long range jamming and Signal Distortion to get optimal jam range and jam strength up there.

Buy a bunch of Griffins or Blackbirds (depending on how big your wallet is) and cram 1 of each color ECM jammer into the mids, along with a MicrowarpDrive (getting around quickly is very important, especially as you will need to warp off a lot, and get into your own optimal/falloff jam range, while keeping out of their range.

If you have enough powergrid left over, fit an Armor Plate in your low slots (griffin's powergrid is crap, so you will be almost exclusively speed/range tanking this one) and then a Damage Control and Signal Distortion Amplifiers (the 'Hypnos' Meta 4 distortion amplifier is the same as Tech2 and cheaper, with less fitting requirements)

finally, train long range targeting, and fit rigs for Jammer Optimal range and Jam strength (and maybe targeting range if you can't lock out to 100km)
Alexi Drakenovic
Doomheim
#3 - 2015-02-12 02:37:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Alexi Drakenovic
Thanks for the reply!

Yes, i meant ECM as in the ones that people hate, that jam you for 20 seconds, haha!

I was thinking in fleets under 10 people so i can be in a Kitsume or a Blackbird and still be of help, and i can afford anything i really want.. I could start with Scorps if i really wanted but i dont want 500 lose mails :P so i think id be starting at a Kitsume, cause it is kinda cheap (under 25mil ISK) and is very effective from what i can see. And yes, I was thinking an Afterburner on the Frigate though, with a MWD on the Cruiser and a MJD on the Scorpion (When i get to it). And yes again, all the fits I've made so far have been "Rainbow" configuration, i thought this would be best 95% of the time, carry a few spares in case FC gets intel on enemy ships..

To be honest I'm not really training skills that aren't relevant to Caldari at the moment, so all Shields, ECM, Missiles, Electronics, trying to have a focus skill tree (A 7mil SP focused pilot will smash a 7mil All-round pilot more often then not)

And I forgot about Long Range Targeting to be honest, ill through that on the plan as well, from the fits I've made with the Kitsume i can target and Jam out past 85km, and that is without boosters, if i focus on Targeting Modules for extra range i think i can hit 150km, which i think is pretty solid..

Thanks for the ideas, I've made a note for Long Range Targeting so that is great!
Cephelange du'Krevviq
Gildinous Vangaurd
The Initiative.
#4 - 2015-02-12 05:54:42 UTC
Scorpions are not generally the ideal ECM hull to use. As a Battleship, your lock time on other subcaps, especially cruiser and smaller, will be far too long. You'll be slower in the engagement, slower into warp and slower in warp across a system.

The ECM cruisers, Balckbird, Falcon and Rook are what really shine. You have to be careful, as they are pretty fragile. The Falcon (which everyone loves to hate) has the advantage of cloaking (including warping while cloaked, like all Force Recons), and a boost to jammer strength, as well as jammer activation cost reduction.

Until/unless CCP changes it, you're better off using the Meta 4 jammers, as the Tech II (Meta 5) have the exact same attributes, and have higher fitting requirements.

As Trey mentioned, the ECM boats' usefulness rapidly disappears once the engagement size gets to be more than, say 20 or so on a side, depending on what the other folks in your gang are flying, and vice versa.

"I am a leaf on the...ah, frak it!"
Trey Kutoi
SergalJerk
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#5 - 2015-02-12 12:16:10 UTC
the problem with the Kitsune is that its jam strength is only marginally higher than the Blackbird, and the Blackbird is 25mil fitted vs Kitsune 25mil for just the hull. Likewise 1600mm plate Blackbird has more EHP than the Kitsune, longer base targeting range and the bonuses synergize better with fleet use (Bonused for both optimal and falloff for longer 'effective' range, opposed to kitsune with just optimal bonus.

taking all of that into consideration, the only time you would want to use a Kitsune is when in an assault frig gang (and you probably would be better served bringing a griffin due to cost + primary target every time) due to mobility, or when trying to pre-empt jams on cruiser sized EWAR platforms (jamming out Blackbirds and Celestis before they can jam/damp you out) and even in those situations, the ability to fit a Rainbow/racial jammers (4 midslots) + MWD (1 mid) means that the Kitsune's mid rack is already full while the Blackbird can fit another racial jammer or more likely a sensor booster with a Scan res script that will make it lock faster than the Kitsune, or a Targeting Range script to lock even stupidly further out
Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2015-02-12 12:51:38 UTC
ehp isn't everything.

Kistune afterburning at 1km/s is almost impossible to hit at the ranges it can apply it's ECM from.

Blackbird has a huge sig and sticking a 1600mm plate means it's going to be slow as hell, alpha meat for a fleet.

Art of Explosions
Cephelange du'Krevviq
Gildinous Vangaurd
The Initiative.
#7 - 2015-02-12 17:02:25 UTC
So, here's a 1600 plate BB (requires a +3% or better PG implant to fit, btw):
[Blackbird, Armored 'bird]
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Damage Control II
'Hypnos' Signal Distortion Amplifier I

Experimental 10MN Microwarpdrive I
Sensor Booster II, Scan Resolution Script
BZ-5 Neutralizing Spatial Destabilizer ECM
Enfeebling Phase Inversion ECM I
'Hypnos' Ion Field ECM I
'Umbra' White Noise ECM

Light Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Inferno Light Missile
Light Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Inferno Light Missile
Light Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Inferno Light Missile
[empty high slot]

Medium Particle Dispersion Projector I
Medium Particle Dispersion Augmentor I
Medium Anti-Kinetic Pump I

Warrior II x2

Specific stats here: http://i.imgur.com/aET6L8b.png?1

Of note:
- EHP: 19595
- Jammer optimal: 86 km
- Speed (w/MWD): 1257 m/s (223 m/s without)


Now, here's the non-plate version:
[Blackbird, Basic 'bird]
Damage Control II
'Hypnos' Signal Distortion Amplifier I
'Hypnos' Signal Distortion Amplifier I

Experimental 10MN Microwarpdrive I
Large Shield Extender II
BZ-5 Neutralizing Spatial Destabilizer ECM
Enfeebling Phase Inversion ECM I
'Hypnos' Ion Field ECM I
'Umbra' White Noise ECM

Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Inferno Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Inferno Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Inferno Heavy Missile
[empty high slot]

Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Medium Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I

Warrior II x2

Specific stats here: http://i.imgur.com/txD8HDV.png?1

Of note:
- EHP: 18197 (1400 less than the plate)
- Jammer optimal: 79 km
- Speed (w/MWD): 1462 m/s (238 m/s without)

This one swaps out tank rigs for EWAR rigs:
[Blackbird, Optimal bird]
Damage Control II
'Hypnos' Signal Distortion Amplifier I
'Hypnos' Signal Distortion Amplifier I

Experimental 10MN Microwarpdrive I
Large Shield Extender II
BZ-5 Neutralizing Spatial Destabilizer ECM
Enfeebling Phase Inversion ECM I
'Hypnos' Ion Field ECM I
'Umbra' White Noise ECM

Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Inferno Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Inferno Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Inferno Heavy Missile
[empty high slot]

Medium Particle Dispersion Augmentor I
Medium Particle Dispersion Projector I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I

Warrior II x2

Its EHP drops to 14878 and bumps the Jammer optimals up to 91 km.

"I am a leaf on the...ah, frak it!"
Phig Neutron
Starbreaker and Sons
#8 - 2015-02-12 19:38:41 UTC
Cephelange du'Krevviq wrote:
As Trey mentioned, the ECM boats' usefulness rapidly disappears once the engagement size gets to be more than, say 20 or so on a side, depending on what the other folks in your gang are flying, and vice versa.


I don't think that's really true. I think the influence of e-war just tends to be less visible in bigger fleets. The more subtle forms of e-war may make you less likely to be primaried first, though, and have a better effect. Sensor damping, target painting, and tracking disruption could make your fleetmates die slightly slower than the ships on the other side. Likewise, you could do anti-ewar: sensor boosting, tracking boosting, ECCM and so forth.
Cephelange du'Krevviq
Gildinous Vangaurd
The Initiative.
#9 - 2015-02-12 19:49:38 UTC
Phig Neutron wrote:
Cephelange du'Krevviq wrote:
As Trey mentioned, the ECM boats' usefulness rapidly disappears once the engagement size gets to be more than, say 20 or so on a side, depending on what the other folks in your gang are flying, and vice versa.


I don't think that's really true. I think the influence of e-war just tends to be less visible in bigger fleets. The more subtle forms of e-war may make you less likely to be primaried first, though, and have a better effect. Sensor damping, target painting, and tracking disruption could make your fleetmates die slightly slower than the ships on the other side. Likewise, you could do anti-ewar: sensor boosting, tracking boosting, ECCM and so forth.


Depends on how many of a platform you have, and what you're facing. While decreasing DPS is not a bad thing, shutting down their support (Logi, EWAR, etc) is obviously more of a force diminisher. If you're a fleet of 30 and you have one ECM boat, and are facing a fleet of 30 alpha boats (with a tackler or three), then your Blackbird is going to be less effective.

Of course, this depends on the enemy FC and fleet members.

"I am a leaf on the...ah, frak it!"
Elenahina
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2015-02-12 20:39:45 UTC
Tsukino Stareine wrote:
ehp isn't everything.

Kistune afterburning at 1km/s is almost impossible to hit at the ranges it can apply it's ECM from.

Blackbird has a huge sig and sticking a 1600mm plate means it's going to be slow as hell, alpha meat for a fleet.


Personally I prefer a 10MN Griffin for frigate fleets.

Eve is like an addiction; you can't quit it until it quits you. Also, iderno
Mephiztopheleze
Laphroaig Inc.
#11 - 2015-02-13 05:21:07 UTC
my $0.02: http://www.themittani.com/features/ewar-newbies

Don't overlook the humble Griffin. Slightly lower jam strength than a Kitsune, but three rig slots and 1/10th the price.
Love thy bookmarks and bounce sooner rather than later.

Occasional Resident Newbie Correspondent for TMC: http://themittani.com/search/site/mephiztopheleze

This is my Forum Main. My Combat Alt is sambo Inkura
Cephelange du'Krevviq
Gildinous Vangaurd
The Initiative.
#12 - 2015-02-13 07:58:38 UTC
Mephiztopheleze wrote:
my $0.02: http://www.themittani.com/features/ewar-newbies


That's a well-written article.

"I am a leaf on the...ah, frak it!"
Rhett Riever
#13 - 2015-02-13 10:47:34 UTC
Redemption Road chat channel has an ECM tutorial setup for tomorrow night. Head off with them, learn lots and grab some free experience.
Asp IV
Apex Abyss
#14 - 2015-02-17 13:51:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Asp IV
Flying support/ ECM is more then jamming..imho
Start flying e-war frigs from all races in various fleets to get a feel then move up to bigger primaries. Cruiserwise alternate between Celestis and BB, tracking disrupt with amarr (and drone jam/dps), and the power of Minmatar webbing/painting.

Also I suggest maxing out navigation skills (and ofc cap skills) since aligning and moving around/bouncing/warping out is "very important" for primaries.

and ofc we have the t2 support frigs hulls that are huge force multipliers.