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Time to nerf sentry drones

Author
fudface
ACME-INC
#41 - 2015-02-10 11:38:49 UTC
hands off my sentries brave newbie. CCP already destroyed my gadres and curators.

any further nerfs would make them pointless.

instead of whining about getting your arses kicked why dont you find a counter to them instead of asking mommy and daddy to fix the bad sentries.

my 2 isk worth

my 2 isk worth

Gawain Edmond
Khanid Bureau of Industry
#42 - 2015-02-10 14:12:55 UTC
you know i love how the ishtar is getting exactly the same arguments that everything else has ever had throughout all of time when it's been overpowered. there is a simple counter to it and tha'ts just ignoring them they can't really hurt you unless you let them (anything that fights out side of point range is very easy to counter).
MrBowers
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#43 - 2015-02-10 14:27:24 UTC
dreads should have their drone bay return what ships other then hauler which don't have them...
Gawain Edmond
Khanid Bureau of Industry
#44 - 2015-02-10 14:41:30 UTC
I think you just hit on CCP's plan for dreadnaughts in a future release!
Debora Tsung
Perkone
Caldari State
#45 - 2015-02-10 15:01:39 UTC
Is it weird that I thought I had seen this thread before?

Stupidity should be a bannable offense.

Fighting back is more fun than not.

Sticky: AFK Cloaking Thread It's not pretty, but it's there.

Skydell
Bad Girl Posse
#46 - 2015-02-10 15:41:01 UTC
We used to blob Armageddons
They got nerfed

We use to blob Raven
They got nerfed

We used to blob Drakes, Canes, Abaddons, Supers, Titans, Noob ships.

They got nerfed.

What didn't get nerfed?
BLOBS

Nerf Sentry, Nerf Ishtar. Welcome to next in line for most effective Blob.

That is not to say we shouldn't assemble large fleets. We should. But there should be 50 targets minimum in a 250 man fleet.

It can be done. It starts at the Corporation level and a need to force us to dedicate to a Corporation identity. You want to be a military Corp? Mark your corp as a military Corp. You want to be a pirate corp? Mark your Corp as a pirate corp. Industrial, Research, Logistics, all will have base starters for standings of others. All will have different barriers in how you interact with the population.

Once this is established, a throttle can be placed on locking people in combat. You can define hostile and logistic, you can then set up a system where more than 5 hostiles locking an enemy produce Sig Rad penalties, create fleet battles where multiple engagements at once and it creates large scale battle systems rather than a whole bunch of recycled blapping.

Once Fleet becomes more than blob, fleet is epic. With the everyone gonk 1-125 it voids all things EVE. Who cares about ship choice, fit, skill points or anything else when 100 people are locking me? I will pop. End of story.

the nerf sledge hammer fails. It has failed for 12 years.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#47 - 2015-02-10 15:56:03 UTC
Skydell wrote:
We used to blob Armageddons
They got nerfed

We use to blob Raven
They got nerfed

We used to blob Drakes, Canes, Abaddons, Supers, Titans, Noob ships.

They got nerfed.

What didn't get nerfed?
BLOBS

Nerf Sentry, Nerf Ishtar. Welcome to next in line for most effective Blob.

That is not to say we shouldn't assemble large fleets. We should. But there should be 50 targets minimum in a 250 man fleet.

It can be done. It starts at the Corporation level and a need to force us to dedicate to a Corporation identity. You want to be a military Corp? Mark your corp as a military Corp. You want to be a pirate corp? Mark your Corp as a pirate corp. Industrial, Research, Logistics, all will have base starters for standings of others. All will have different barriers in how you interact with the population.

Once this is established, a throttle can be placed on locking people in combat. You can define hostile and logistic, you can then set up a system where more than 5 hostiles locking an enemy produce Sig Rad penalties, create fleet battles where multiple engagements at once and it creates large scale battle systems rather than a whole bunch of recycled blapping.

Once Fleet becomes more than blob, fleet is epic. With the everyone gonk 1-125 it voids all things EVE. Who cares about ship choice, fit, skill points or anything else when 100 people are locking me? I will pop. End of story.

the nerf sledge hammer fails. It has failed for 12 years.


So friends are overpowered?
Solj RichPopolous
Silent Havok.
H A R D L I N E R S
#48 - 2015-02-10 16:20:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Solj RichPopolous
Skydell wrote:
We used to blob Armageddons
They got nerfed

We use to blob Raven
They got nerfed

We used to blob Drakes, Canes, Abaddons, Supers, Titans, Noob ships.

They got nerfed.

What didn't get nerfed?
BLOBS

Nerf Sentry, Nerf Ishtar. Welcome to next in line for most effective Blob.

That is not to say we shouldn't assemble large fleets. We should. But there should be 50 targets minimum in a 250 man fleet.

It can be done. It starts at the Corporation level and a need to force us to dedicate to a Corporation identity. You want to be a military Corp? Mark your corp as a military Corp. You want to be a pirate corp? Mark your Corp as a pirate corp. Industrial, Research, Logistics, all will have base starters for standings of others. All will have different barriers in how you interact with the population.

Once this is established, a throttle can be placed on locking people in combat. You can define hostile and logistic, you can then set up a system where more than 5 hostiles locking an enemy produce Sig Rad penalties, create fleet battles where multiple engagements at once and it creates large scale battle systems rather than a whole bunch of recycled blapping.

Once Fleet becomes more than blob, fleet is epic. With the everyone gonk 1-125 it voids all things EVE. Who cares about ship choice, fit, skill points or anything else when 100 people are locking me? I will pop. End of story.

the nerf sledge hammer fails. It has failed for 12 years.



This guy has it right. The problem with EVE is its too dumbed down. Jump in a blob F1 then chest beat on forums that you have "friends". EVE should be like spacefights in the movies with multiple mini battles going on simultaneously within one large scale battle. If CCP perfects this and fixes the blob guarantee you will see players coming to the game in droves to participate in epic large scale fights where they did something other than listen to 1 guy call targets and get instapopped when locked.

Ask most people why they leave the game, I would be willing to guess blobbing is the number one reason. Ask some of the more intelligent players why they find null sec a bore, because their creativity and ingenuity is meaningless in a blob, which null sec always is 95% of the time. All the modules and beautiful different tactics available in this game and it always boils down to some cookie cutter fit that can be put into a blob and dumbed down for the masses.
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#49 - 2015-02-10 17:47:21 UTC
Gawain Edmond wrote:
you know i love how the ishtar is getting exactly the same arguments that everything else has ever had throughout all of time when it's been overpowered. there is a simple counter to it and tha'ts just ignoring them they can't really hurt you unless you let them (anything that fights out side of point range is very easy to counter).


They can damned sure wreck POSes though. Sometimes running away isn't an acceptable option.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#50 - 2015-02-10 18:15:13 UTC
Solj RichPopolous wrote:
Skydell wrote:
We used to blob Armageddons
They got nerfed

We use to blob Raven
They got nerfed

We used to blob Drakes, Canes, Abaddons, Supers, Titans, Noob ships.

They got nerfed.

What didn't get nerfed?
BLOBS

Nerf Sentry, Nerf Ishtar. Welcome to next in line for most effective Blob.

That is not to say we shouldn't assemble large fleets. We should. But there should be 50 targets minimum in a 250 man fleet.

It can be done. It starts at the Corporation level and a need to force us to dedicate to a Corporation identity. You want to be a military Corp? Mark your corp as a military Corp. You want to be a pirate corp? Mark your Corp as a pirate corp. Industrial, Research, Logistics, all will have base starters for standings of others. All will have different barriers in how you interact with the population.

Once this is established, a throttle can be placed on locking people in combat. You can define hostile and logistic, you can then set up a system where more than 5 hostiles locking an enemy produce Sig Rad penalties, create fleet battles where multiple engagements at once and it creates large scale battle systems rather than a whole bunch of recycled blapping.

Once Fleet becomes more than blob, fleet is epic. With the everyone gonk 1-125 it voids all things EVE. Who cares about ship choice, fit, skill points or anything else when 100 people are locking me? I will pop. End of story.

the nerf sledge hammer fails. It has failed for 12 years.



This guy has it right. The problem with EVE is its too dumbed down. Jump in a blob F1 then chest beat on forums that you have "friends". EVE should be like spacefights in the movies with multiple mini battles going on simultaneously within one large scale battle. If CCP perfects this and fixes the blob guarantee you will see players coming to the game in droves to participate in epic large scale fights where they did something other than listen to 1 guy call targets and get instapopped when locked.

Ask most people why they leave the game, I would be willing to guess blobbing is the number one reason. Ask some of the more intelligent players why they find null sec a bore, because their creativity and ingenuity is meaningless in a blob, which null sec always is 95% of the time. All the modules and beautiful different tactics available in this game and it always boils down to some cookie cutter fit that can be put into a blob and dumbed down for the masses.


In a game where your ship being damage does not really reduce your capability, concentrating fire to eliminate a target will always be the optimal way to do things because it eliminate a threat from the field. You can be in deep structure and still deal just as much damage as if you were completely un-scratched. Your movie with epic battles have a setup where damaeg can mess up a ship even if it was not outright destroyed. In a setup like that, damaging many ships can pay off if you happen to be able to incapacitate enough to gain the upper hand.

As long as EVE stays as it currently is combat wise, alphaing people off the field or at the very least concentrating dps on a single ship will be the optimal strategy like any game where you eliminate others by reducing their health bar to 0 with no penalty for being lower than full.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#51 - 2015-02-10 18:29:20 UTC
Tiddle Jr wrote:


Who told you that sentries are bs size?!
Where the hell is that written?!



their size is a bit of a giveaway. They are effectively large long range weapons the only difference is you dump them out of a hatch They provide the same range and firepower as long range battleships.
Tiddle Jr
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#52 - 2015-02-10 20:18:31 UTC
In this case heavies are also bs size and we should stop to use them on cruisers and battlecruisers.

"The message is that there are known knowns. There are things we know that we know. There are known unknowns. That is to say there are things that we now know we don't know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we don't know" - CCP

afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#53 - 2015-02-10 20:33:23 UTC
Tiddle Jr wrote:
In this case heavies are also bs size and we should stop to use them on cruisers and battlecruisers.


Nothing of value would be lost tbh.
Tiddle Jr
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#54 - 2015-02-10 20:55:16 UTC
In this case we should talk about nerfing drone boats make their dronehold and bandwith relevant to their sizes, right?

"The message is that there are known knowns. There are things we know that we know. There are known unknowns. That is to say there are things that we now know we don't know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we don't know" - CCP

Luna Arindale
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
#55 - 2015-02-10 23:02:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Luna Arindale
baltec1 wrote:
Luna Arindale wrote:
This change would literally ruin all drone boats, remember when the domi was 68 mil because it was crap? Sentry drones haven't changed since then you know.

It was 68 mil because it was 65 mil to build.


Yeah but that was fun to capitalize off of. The point still stands that the domi was only labeled op after it got the sentry range/tracking bonus, and same for the Ishtar. People just look to nerfing the drone instead of the hull, because the drone itself is pretty garbage after CCP nerfed their damage. Try using them on an unbonused hull, it is like 440+- dps with curator IIs at 52km with 3 DDA IIs. And I doubt many unbounded hulls use them in favor of using heavies / medium / light drones. I know I used them in very specific niche fits and am a bit biased to not see them nerfed.

I find all topics like this to be from people who maybe don't realize how crap those drones would be if their base stats were nerfed.
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