EVE General Discussion

I don't think I have ever met or heard of an EVE player who has been officially diagnosed as a sociopath.

Sociopath is a BIG word. Don't use it lightly.

I don't know how I feel about this statement. It's almost like we are misanthropes by our very male nature and without women being willing to step into the poo storm to teach us how to stop flinging poo at each other, how will we ever learn? I want to be offended as a male. That somehow I'm being told that I just don't "know any better", I just don't know how to how to be an empathic human being capable of being in a competitive game environment without devolving into the worst version of myself and still have some measure of respect for the person at the other keyboard. In principal anyway. Unfortunately more often than not this is demonstrably true in reality. At least as far as the more vocal and visible elements are concerned. But to be fair I don't think it is fair to make it a male phenomena, it is more of a males that plays EVE thing as the I said earlier, this game just seems to attract that type of player.

I do 100% agree that you can't complain about a community without taking interest in working towards bettering it either as a whole or even just carving out a place in the community. EVE being so player driven, you pretty much HAVE to make things happen, not wait for others to do it for you. It takes work. There are supportive environments for women that play the game, it just just takes more effort to seek them out, and I can sympathize with the caustic environment outside whatever community you're in making it perhaps not worth the effort when you can just play another game.

As much as I enjoy EVE I'm not silly enough to thing that any game is so good that it is a privilege that I'm worthy enough allowed to play it; it has to offer something to me as a player. If all I'm going to get is a lot of BS and grief, yeah why bother? I can totally see that point.

What I don't understand is if women where interested in EvE, they would be playing it, if they aren't, they are obviously not interested, why change a well loved game for people that aren't interested?
On a different note, why is it that women 'have' to be involved in EVERYTHING that men do? Can't men just have something where its NOT pandering to women? Women just come into a community and start demanding things change, how about you adapt? Yes, men are crude, yes we swear, yes we are competative, back-stabbing b@stards to each other and anyone around us in game, don't like it? Go do something else, simple

That be an interesting social experiment actually, put a group together dominated by women with a male minority and see if it turns out egalitarian and fair particularly in respects to that male minority. I wonder if it has already been done actually.

Is abuse of "faux" authority and power of the majority a truly gender issue or a human one. I don't know one way or the other, I'd genuinely be curious what the outcome would be.

I do not believe even the least bit that this statement is true. It is roughly as sexist as saying that all female-only groups are bound to decline into drama, bitching and bickering.

eeeh, yeah.. you like your boys club so much that you actually want to drive any attempts to make it better away?

Aight, all people that are not competitive,back stabbing b@stards will go away, and you will get your scumbucket, see how you like it.

Also, its pure hypocrisy to voice such an opinion here and completely different ones to get you laid, food for thought.

Side note, it's not 'women' coming in demanding things change. Most of the change-freaks here (who come in and want the game changed to fit their worldview rather than modifying their world view to fit the game) are men (and forum posters lol).

But I whole-heartedly agree with the sentiment of your post. Especially the part I bolded. That part sums up the forever war between folks like me and the "EVe would get so many more subs if...someone would just think of the children" people. I've said the same things, Can we not have ONE game that is about freedom, that is about players being who they are and playing how they want instead of the fake honor/political correctness BS of not only the rest of the MMO industry, but the real world too?

Women (and anyone else, including PVE players such as myself) are already welcomed in EVE, IF they are the hearty, ambitious, self starting, knock the door down, "F$%^& your glass ceiling, you work for ME now" ass kicker types rather than the "oh I'm so oppressed by my lack of Y Chomosomage, i'll just sit in this corner and cry till someone helps me" types.

The best female EVE player i ever flew with would announce herself on comms with the declaration that "y'all are all MY bitches now" and she was (is) unstoppable. THAT is a EVE woman (real EVE women make Klingon women look like dainty little flowers), hell THAT is an EVE player of any gender.

Look at the post I wrote. You're defending the way you act - Or rather, the way that a lot of the Eve community acts - on the basis that that's how Eve has "always been", rather then even trying to justify the behaviour itself directly. You're getting defensive because people are coming in to a place where you're used to saying rude and crappy stuff to people and pointing out that it's pretty rude and crappy by most normal standards.

It's that attitude there that makes the game so completely unattractive to women. The absolute refusal of many Eve players to show basic mature empathy for people around you and adjust the way you act accordingly. Perhaps that doesn't matter to you, but it is what it is.

Sexually rude comments and actions towards female players is not unique to EVE, and it's not even that bad. Other games have it much worse, and ironically those games have much higher percentages of female players, so that can't be the reason.


Why should it change? Not every group or game is supposed to be inclusive to everyone. The very concept of this game is predicated upon ruthless competition within a rather social Darwinist model of player interaction. Every indication seems to be that this would have to change in order for the game to cater more towards women, and it shouldn't. If this is not what they want, they're free to choose not to play it.


Maybe it's because EVE players are educated enough to know what a toxic movement feminism really is.


It's almost as if people have a group dynamic where they're comfortable letting loose around each other and don't enjoy it when outsiders tell them to change their behavior. Regardless I seriously, seriously doubt that either of these two points are true.
If you are in a group that does that and you're not comfortable with it, leave. Find another group that doesn't. They exist, I promise.

EvE is EvE, it shouldn't change because there is no other game like it.
I shouldn't have to defend it, if you can't handle things being said to you, because it offends your sensibilities, then your free to go to another game.
We aren't here to be empathetic, we're here to play EvE, if you want empathy, go play Hello Kitty Island Adventure.