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How about plopping new players in null-sec?

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Winters Chill
Unitas Incorporated
#41 - 2011-12-13 13:41:40 UTC
If a new player wants to go to null sec, they can.

/sandbox.
Buruk Utama
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#42 - 2011-12-13 13:44:13 UTC
Sorry but the current state of both null and low sec is ENTIRELY due to those who dwell out there. You make a crappy waste land don't complain that nobody wants to play there, its a crappy waste land.

I've had my share of null play and this is what is repeatedly heard when a "brand new pilot" enters the system: NEUT SPY ! Followed by stealth pilots and others trying to find them and once found they'll even drop some supers because .....well its a waste land and there's nothing else to do and we can't **** off our alliance block to cause any real wars....moon goo is too important.

New player wants to join a corp out there, well again they are spies! (Or goons who just scam them for the little starting isk they have and pod them since they are so l33t)

But if the new player is actually able to join someone what will likely be their main activity...hmm...CTA! Yes, you must spend your eve career listening to the wants of someone else and having them dictate your game time and how you must train your character (drakes) to fit whatever defense fleet fitting the local FC slumlord has come up with. Yes there are some different corps out there who are edgy and don't require this, but be honest, by and large most do.

If you want null more exciting disband the large alliances and fight for something. You give up all that pvp and interaction so your overlords can enjoy the moon goo.
Takseen
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#43 - 2011-12-13 13:44:59 UTC
Winters Chill wrote:
If a new player wants to go to null sec, they can.

/sandbox.


Right now the tutorials point newbies towards the following

1) Running missions
2) Mining
3) Running missions
4) Manufacturing and trading(albeit with very little useful tips on how to do it profitably)
5) Running missions
6) Joining Faction Warfare(which apparently is broken, or so the forums say).
7) Exploration

There's nothing wrong with showcasing some of the other stuff in the game too.
CCP Phantom
C C P
C C P Alliance
#44 - 2011-12-13 14:07:46 UTC
Moved from General Discussion.

CCP Phantom - Senior Community Developer
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#45 - 2011-12-13 14:56:48 UTC
Takseen wrote:
-"newbies can just fly to null themselves".
True, but its a bloody long way, and a single mishap means its a wasted 20+ jumps.

-"but they can set their medclone to a 0.0 station and then podkill themselves to get there".
True, but that's not immediately obvious to most people. And they'd still be lacking in direction and funds.

A good corp/alliance would give a newbie clear instructions on how to get out there.

Takseen wrote:
The obvious question is what would you do if a small minority of unscrupulous 0.0 pilots were to permacamp any and all stations the newbies get sent to. That'd be the biggest obstacle right there.

Don't move out there with any significant assets to start with, and the incentive to just permacamp the station the newbies get sent to is practically nill. There's the tears, of course, but overall I'd say the risk of this happening is negiligible.

Buruk Utama wrote:
Sorry but the current state of both null and low sec is ENTIRELY due to those who dwell out there. You make a crappy waste land don't complain that nobody wants to play there, its a crappy waste land.

I've had my share of null play and this is what is repeatedly heard when a "brand new pilot" enters the system: NEUT SPY ! Followed by stealth pilots and others trying to find them and once found they'll even drop some supers because .....well its a waste land and there's nothing else to do and we can't **** off our alliance block to cause any real wars....moon goo is too important.

In a system where neutral characters are mostly the scout of a roaming gang or a solo cloaky tengu guy, don't expect to be welcomed with tea and crumpets.

If you're a single ship and you're found by "stealth pilots and others", and you're still dropped on by supers, then you've found a bunch of faggots. Name names, I want to see how much I have to *** around to get dropped on by a super when travelling solo.

Buruk Utama wrote:
New player wants to join a corp out there, well again they are spies!

I'm sure all of those accusations of being a spy are dead serious and not ever remotely a joke. And you're definitely not taking things too seriously.

(We call our newbies spies all the time, and we have a regular in-fleet "x up if you're a spy" spamming session. It's all in good fun. vOv)

Buruk Utama wrote:
But if the new player is actually able to join someone what will likely be their main activity...hmm...CTA! Yes, you must spend your eve career listening to the wants of someone else and having them dictate your game time and how you must train your character (drakes) to fit whatever defense fleet fitting the local FC slumlord has come up with. Yes there are some different corps out there who are edgy and don't require this, but be honest, by and large most do.

While this is unfortunate, it's probably something you'll just have to live with whenever people's ships are on the line. I'm pretty sure you'll see the same kind of rage over wardecs. In fact, I've seen exactly that multiple times in various hisec alliances I've been in, and it was a fucktonne more spergy than what I've ever seen in GSF.

This is still not the reason for the 0.0 stagnation. It doesn't help, but it's not the leading reason for 0.0 stagnation.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Mike Whiite
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#46 - 2011-12-13 15:13:28 UTC
Why would you want new players to start in 0.0?

Do you think they will like the game more than when starting in hi sec?

I'm really in the dark here unless you want to easy kill mails.

I believe there are several examples of mmo's gone terrably wrong when new bees are set between the big gun.

The only thing you'll achieve is making a person 100% dependent on his corp if he has one at that time.

If you want to inform people on PvP fine adjust the tutorial with the CQ you could even make an simulator let people try agains eachother something like they did in Guildwars might be usefull.

but dropping them without protection in 0.0 space will only result in tears of the newbee and misplaced pride in noob killers.
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#47 - 2011-12-14 07:52:37 UTC
If the exploration training was more creative, then that as a career choice **COULD** bring out noobs except that 0.0 exploration sites are not for those lacking in skills.

There are goals in CCP to expand exploration to include "more thinking and less shooting" and perhaps that with ships better geared for exploration might work better.

Exploration, when done right, is the safest profession. The only thing making it safe is that your activities and locations are not predictable. It does not pay out ISK like high sec incursions, mass mining, and level 4 mission running - not in most cases. With exploration, you might get nothing but some faction ammo or overseer underwear in a box or in 10 minutes time, come away with some tens of millions of ISK with deadspace or faction modules.

This comes back to another problem. With everything, it's all about ISK ISK and more ISK. I am not always sure why. I can see that someone who aspires to fly a titan in large epic fleet wars certainly needs to rack up the ISK, but like the people hugging high sec "waiting for more skills" (and the goons are correct in laughing at that because the skill point system is not a "greater numbers" game it's where you put what you have correctly), there are a lot of people hugging their wallets too.

Exploration is not as steady pay as the other means in income, and it's not intended to be (CCPs own whiteboards have that written) but you can be dry in payout for weeks and hit a major jackpot - and in the end, it's all about "the find". I have given hundreds of millions of ISK worth of stuff away.

It's a content issue in the end.

As for camping noobs in 0.0, that's going to happen, because some people never got over what their crazy uncle did to them.



Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#48 - 2011-12-14 11:55:35 UTC
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
This comes back to another problem. With everything, it's all about ISK ISK and more ISK. I am not always sure why. I can see that someone who aspires to fly a titan in large epic fleet wars certainly needs to rack up the ISK, but like the people hugging high sec "waiting for more skills" (and the goons are correct in laughing at that because the skill point system is not a "greater numbers" game it's where you put what you have correctly), there are a lot of people hugging their wallets too.

If EVE hadn't been a game where losses mattered, then people wouldn't be so dead set on ISK ISK and more ISK. Everyone wants to see some sort of progression, and the best progression in this game is ISK, and in some cases killmails. The only thing I can see would be different, however, would be what you'd hoard. For example I assume that WoW is very loot-centric, so instead you'd be highly focused on getting loot with better stats.

Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
Exploration is not as steady pay as the other means in income, and it's not intended to be (CCPs own whiteboards have that written) but you can be dry in payout for weeks and hit a major jackpot - and in the end, it's all about "the find".

In other words, it's like the good old goldrush of olde. And that's awesome.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Emperor Salazar
Remote Soviet Industries
Insidious Empire
#49 - 2011-12-14 13:15:15 UTC
Weiland Taur wrote:
What happened to the sandbox?

It seems as if every other day there is a new thread about finding ways to force the "carebears" into nullsec. These ironicly come from the same people who complain (forgive the generalization) that CCP does too much to protect paper thin hulks and transports from gank ships. How about the nullsec alliances stop trying to get CCP to force the sandbox into a certain shape and make nullsec more inviting. It has the action, the profit, hell even mining is more fun in null (and you can make an ISK or two at it). The other thing it has is arrogant vets drunk on a spiced mixture of virtual tears and pixel dust pretending that gun mining anoms, ratting belts and shooting the same target as fifty other people is somehow more honorable than anything high sec has to offer. If you want players to migrate to Null make the move attractive. Build it and they shall come, stop asking for CCP handouts and relocation programs.

I for one remember how much fun and oddly enough how scary crossing some of those thresholds were; my first wandering into losec, my first wormhole, my first time watching how pretty the sky was and wondering why my ship was screaming as my shields went red... Let's try and keep Eve dynamic.

Those to whom this does not apply please avoid the knee jerk "your tears sustain me" tirade.



Posting to confirm giving people options is a means of control and forcing them to play a certain way Straight
De'Veldrin
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#50 - 2011-12-14 14:12:01 UTC
Never Learn wrote:
As someone who has gone the route you suggested by heading straight to nullsec and working for pirate factions I feel i should share my experience here.

My presence did not go unnoticed for long, soon i had groups of older players hunting for a week old newbie. The highest number i ever saw hunting me was 43 at once while usually it was only 3 to 6 of them hunting me.

I think you need to realize there is no depth of degradtion the nullsec types won't sink to in thier desperate attempts to get killmails. It doesn't matter a rats ass if it's an hour old toon - any killmail will validate hours of effort to kill even helpless enemies.

so expecting something positive to come from a newbies attempt at nullsec is just naive ...you need to consider the lenghts the "pvpers" go to to achieve any kind of kill. They would circle like starving sharks at the outflow pipe from a butchery waste room.


So what you're saying is it would be a way to increase PvP as masses of would-be gankers fought to control the outflow pipe for all those new kills?

Asshats killing asshats sounds like win-win to me.

De'Veldrin's Corollary (to Malcanis' Law): Any idea that seeks to limit the ability of a large nullsec bloc to do something in the name of allowing more small groups into sov null will inevitably make it that much harder for small groups to enter sov null.
Diana Ann Placeholder
Doomheim
#51 - 2011-12-20 20:46:41 UTC
I actually thought about joining GoonWaffe because things in 0.0 seem to get more interesting again due to the Crucible changes, lag is said to be more or less fixed and I heard there's a big war going on. I'd join mostly for strategic ops which is what seems to matter for the great leader.

So I went to their Wiki and read how to apply... I have to go to a special forum, pay 10 bucks to register, then post there actively for three months and then I may get into GoonWaffe? Shocked

I wouldn't even mind the ten bucks, but the Something Awful forums are not even about EVE. WTF?! I have to fake interest in some generic forum for a quarter of a year to be accepted into an EVE corp?

Only conclusion I can draw from this is that the "Newbie Drive 2012" is aimed exclusively at existing members of that particular non-EVE internet community. It may even be a nice community, but I already have one not-EVE-related community and that really is enough.
Tenris Anis
Schattenengel Clan
#52 - 2011-12-20 23:52:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Tenris Anis
Winters Chill wrote:
If a new player wants to go to null sec, they can.

/sandbox.


A zero zero system only for newbies sounds still kinda cool. It will not work in the long run, but it still sounds cool. NPC Corp action needed to kill bs spawns in the belts, a few mission agents, free for all pvp, and only wormhole exits, no entries to keep bitter vets out ... at least their mains, their alts will be most likely hunting there ...

It will still not work very well as part of the sandbox.

Remove insurance.
Diana Ann Placeholder
Doomheim
#53 - 2011-12-21 00:03:22 UTC
Why does anyone think 'only wormholes' would keep the mean people out? That's ridiculous. Scanning wormholes and camping them is laughably easy for any experienced player. This would make things a lot harder for the newbies, not for the vets. A brand-new player couldn't scan a wormhole at all so he could never get out.
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