Ships & Modules

How did this turn into a minmatar are over powered thread... Anyways, boosting the speed of all gal ships past that of minmatar would be a way of defining the race. Their ships would be some of the fastest, however, they would have some of the worst agility. The game mechanics already play in factors such as mass in relation to turning speed so why not make the most of it? The draw backs in many ways balance this idea. Sudden turns of your prey would would make it difficult for you to catch, but in a straight line, you are sure to catch them.

Eos: I truly love the idea of it mounting a cloaking device and turning it into a covert command ship. This should be seriously considered. CCP please, please, please look into this!

Glad to see you back on the forums, Liang. Your posts always go beyond the typical 'shoot from the hip' arguments.
If we're going to compare the Deimos and Vagabond, I think EHP is an important factor to consider. If a Deimos is shield fitted (which is, IMHO, a viable option), it is still significantly outclassed in shield HP, and the Vagabond's inherent speed bonus helps it maintain optimal a bit better. The agility boost to Gallente ships has subtly improved their ability to kite, but I think that nothing short of a complete paradigm shift will satisfy most Gallente fans. I think a bit more dps is in order...but the stigma of the Deimos, among other ships, will die hard. Also, yes, Gallente capitals have traditionally been decent, but for most casual pvpers, that's probably irrelevant and inconsequential.

Gallante? Kite?

The last thing Gallante needs is more paper dps. What it needs is speed to apply that dps. And the Diemost got its stigma for very good reasons.

I'm saying the stigma isn't going away just because of a small buff.
And that the agility boost will IMPROVE its kiting (subtly), not come to define it or its Gallente counterparts.
You know, of course, that the Vagabond goes faster and with better range. It has a bonus to speed, and its weapon systems have better optimal and falloff...
I am also all for a way to get in range that won't severely gimp the Gallente tank.
I've proposed a sort of ship tractor beam that helps pull ships into blaster range, but I think the module would have to be very carefully designed to avoid its inherently OP nature. Perhaps heavy CPU requirements. It's probably a garbage idea, but it'd certainly be interesting.
I don't want to turn this in to yet another Vagabond vs. Deimos discussion...they are just somewhat illustrative examples. Not all Gallente ships in PvP are garbage, especially in smaller ship setups. The Taranis, for example, as well as.most other small blaster ships, are quite good. As one player once said, "You fly a Taranis. You encounter a ship. Someone dies".

I have to comments to the "Blasters are useless until a Deimos can 100% of the time catch and face **** a Vagabond" line of thinking:
- The thing about kiting is that the kiter isn't MWDing straight away from you all the time. Furthermore, their MWD isn't on all the time... and even when its on they're between cycles and can't overheat.
- Kiting is as much about agility as it is about raw speed. You need to have the agility to respond to what the enemy is doing - or the ability to tank them long enough for your response to matter.
- There are tricks to **** with people. Kiting is a very risk averse style of flying and 99% of the time its possible to either get someone in scram range or get out of point range.
- The idea that a ship specially made for kiting should prevail against a ship specially made for brawling shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone. The question you should be asking yourself isn't whether or not the Deimos does the Vaga's job better than the Vaga, but whether the Deimos is able to do its job.

-Liang

Confirming that Diemost fit plate and Vaga don't fit nanos and don't use barrage. Vagas just "wander" into web range. Maybe they would kindly keep their guns off too.

Diemost with 2 nano is 2km/s. Vaga with 2 nano is 3km/s. That's a 1km/s difference. Diemost with 2 range mods barely hits at point range even with null. vega with 2 range mods do ~85% dps at point range with barrage.

-Vaga won't get held down, not by a Diemost that's 1km/s slower anyway.
-Vaga will always keep range, it's 1km/s faster than Diemost. When will the Diemost catch up, by going slower?
-Diemost doesn't need to be plated to lose. It's 1km/s slower unplated, with 2 nanos.
-Nano Diemost is 1km/s, or 50%, slower than nano Vaga. No amount of "luck" will save it.

-2 tes, 1 gyro, and 2 nanos. DC isn't worth the slot on a kiting fit, it's got no structure. Don't stack gyros, it's not a carebearing boat. Winmatar -> falloff range = dps.
-You don't get a boat that's 50%, or 1km/s faster than you, with high agility, into or out of range. Diemost is sunk, admit it.
-Why don't you bring a Diemost instead? Don't wanna?

:/

Speed is just one way in which combat engagement distance can be influenced. And, personally, I don't think Gallente need to be made the fastest race to compensate for past game changes. Rather, I think there are other ways forward that will also bring back some of the complexity of ship fitting decisions and more effectively lead to balance across all races.

Before the EWAR changes, sensor damps were an effective tool for blaster boats to mitigate against speedier ships, and have some say in combat range. You can still fly around at 4km/sec, but if you want to lock me or shoot me, you'll have to come closer to my desired engagement distance. This opens up the arenas in which blaster boats can be effective, as they have a tool to change the fight conditions to be more suitable to their strengths. I'm not advocating for over-the-top changes, just moving the fight to more even terms. And, if I want that option, I pay for it in terms of a midslot module. Classically, my Gallente ship is armor tanked, so this doesn't hinder my tanking abilities, and actually fits well with active armor repair bonuses on some hulls. But, each side should have a chance to unbalance the fight toward their own ends...may the craftier pilot prevail.

Overall, the racial EWAR is particularly suited to each race's combat philosophy, sadly the modules as they were first designed could be fit to any hull (see ECM modules before the mechanics to make them random based on sensor strengths was introduced). As an aside, Amarr tracking disruptors work well against their historic foe, the Minmatar. And to compensate, the Minmatar's use of target painters helps mitigate against these effects. Target painters also help Minmatar avoid out-running their own tracking.

Not to mention that EWAR modules are a one-size-fits-all module. So, we had the days where a handful of frigates with sensor damps could reduce lock range to the point where a Battleship couldn't even lock its own hull. In the re-balancing, their effectiveness was greatly reduced, and we have them in their current iteration...largely ineffective outside of specialized EWAR hulls.

I think the EWAR changes need to be re-thought in terms of racial combat philosophy. Return some effectiveness to the racial EWAR modules, introduce S/M/L variants, and restrict their fitting to race-appropriate hulls, balance them accordingly.

TL;DR Bring back effective damps for Gallente