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Update regarding Multiboxing and input automation

First post First post First post
Author
Nolak Ataru
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#3301 - 2015-02-01 01:21:25 UTC
Sgt Ocker wrote:
We can't beat'em so lets use CCP to do it for us.
The end is nigh.,.

The funny thing is, there's no ISBoxed fleet (short of 500 titans boxed concurrently) that is not susceptible to player intervention in one way or another, and CCP knows this. If CCP believes that players cannot fight an ISBoxed fleet, then they might as well removes fleets in general because every fleet has it's weakness, even if you can't see it at first.
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#3302 - 2015-02-01 09:45:53 UTC
Nolak Ataru wrote:
Sgt Ocker wrote:
We can't beat'em so lets use CCP to do it for us.
The end is nigh.,.

The funny thing is, there's no ISBoxed fleet (short of 500 titans boxed concurrently) that is not susceptible to player intervention in one way or another, and CCP knows this. If CCP believes that players cannot fight an ISBoxed fleet, then they might as well removes fleets in general because every fleet has it's weakness, even if you can't see it at first.

I agree with you but just to be clear, "We can't beat'em so lets use CCP to do it for us" . Was meant as a snide comment regarding the GSF members obvious elation over his 50 petitions sent during a fleet battle..

The fact players are using CCP to their own advantage in this way is something those in charge need to address (maybe the new boss has a big enough pair).
The sooner Devs stop balancing the game to suit their "friends", the sooner Eve can become a game for everyone again.

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.

Balon Mythos Adoudel
Fleet Management
#3303 - 2015-02-02 00:48:47 UTC
Everyone says let CCP beat them for us...I play Eve - you do not when you multibox. You come in with a 30-40 character fleet and take all the ice in a belt "stealing" it from legit players. You could not do that if you ran these independently. You are cheating plain and simple. I am glad CCP is doing this - but they need to limit one instance of .exe per machine as well Your supposed to play the game - not your group of characters.

You are stealing from me when you mine out a belt or gank me with 4 ships or do anything with a group that you could not do by manually entering the commands. Face the truth - anything else is just smoke and mirrors you throw up defending a cheating method......
Nolak Ataru
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#3304 - 2015-02-02 01:29:24 UTC
Balon Mythos Adoudel wrote:
Everyone says let CCP beat them for us...I play Eve - you do not when you multibox. You come in with a 30-40 character fleet and take all the ice in a belt "stealing" it from legit players. You could not do that if you ran these independently. You are cheating plain and simple. I am glad CCP is doing this - but they need to limit one instance of .exe per machine as well Your supposed to play the game - not your group of characters.

You are stealing from me when you mine out a belt or gank me with 4 ships or do anything with a group that you could not do by manually entering the commands. Face the truth - anything else is just smoke and mirrors you throw up defending a cheating method......


Except that if a player used straight broadcast while mining, he'd mine out a single asteroid and end up with incomplete cycles.
Players constantly mine with multiple accounts, even those who don't use ISBoxer; just check your local belts. There is no "wrong" way to play EVE. I'm not a miner myself, and you may not be a capital pilot yourself (no I'm not either). EVE was not built for a single type of player. To believe and attempt to state as fact otherwise is disingenuous.

If you have a serious problem with an ISBoxxed mining fleet, pick up a Catalyst or Talos, and pop a few of his boats. Or hire some mercenaries to wreck havoc with him. Heck, a 100mn stabber against his Orca will cause some issues and will make him move systems. This is EVE, home of player options. One of those options is to move systems yourself.

Also, regarding the whole "stealing minerals", you weren't there when Hulks and whatnot were first introduced to EVE. Prior to those, people used battleships to mine belts, and that took time. When the Hulks and Procs came out, belts in highsec were stripmined in a matter of hours. The only minerals a player "owns" are the ones sitting in his station hangar. You aren't owed any minerals in the belt.
Komisarzzawada
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#3305 - 2015-02-02 09:56:08 UTC
Balon Mythos Adoudel wrote:
Everyone says let CCP beat them for us...I play Eve - you do not when you multibox. You come in with a 30-40 character fleet and take all the ice in a belt "stealing" it from legit players. You could not do that if you ran these independently. You are cheating plain and simple. I am glad CCP is doing this - but they need to limit one instance of .exe per machine as well Your supposed to play the game - not your group of characters.

You are stealing from me when you mine out a belt or gank me with 4 ships or do anything with a group that you could not do by manually entering the commands. Face the truth - anything else is just smoke and mirrors you throw up defending a cheating method......




Sorry but who exactly is a legit player in eve?

This is eve, land of the almost free, and definately home of the brave, and here, no way of playing is wrong. If someone is "stealing" your mins, maybe you can try do something about it ;)

How can you tell of what someone is able to do, do you measure it by what you and your machine can do ? Cause clearly there are some amazing people out there capable of doing many things that other are not.
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#3306 - 2015-02-02 11:14:11 UTC
Balon Mythos Adoudel wrote:
- but they need to limit one instance of .exe per machine as well Your supposed to play the game - not your group of characters.

Eve is not and never has been a game where you are limited to having only one character active at a time (one instance of .exe).
Eve was built and grew to what it is today on the concept of, if you can do it, do it (that is changing, as the sandbox element of Eve becomes smaller), the ability to run as many or few characters as you choose is part of the game.

It is not "cheating" or "stealing" when you multibox, as long as you do it without use of a Bot or Input Broadcasting.

One person controlling 10 or even 40 characters is no different to you controlling one. They still have to push the same amount of keys as you and make exactly the same amount of mouse clicks, for EVERY character as you do with one.

If you don't like multibox miners, go blow them up or pay someone else to do it for you, that is what eve is all about. If you don't like someone you can just BLOW them up.
Or
If you genuinely think someone is gaining an unfair advantage, via assisted multi boxing, you can report them to CCP and they will look into whether or not they are using anything to help them "cheat".

** Don't just report them for multiboxing - That is actually part of the game.

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.

Charadrass
Angry Germans
#3307 - 2015-02-02 20:32:47 UTC
i'd like to see the cyno characters who become main characters and take abnormal high fees to let fleets jump through.
Kaphrah
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#3308 - 2015-02-02 20:42:57 UTC
Balon Mythos Adoudel wrote:
Everyone says let CCP beat them for us...I play Eve - you do not when you multibox. You come in with a 30-40 character fleet and take all the ice in a belt "stealing" it from legit players. You could not do that if you ran these independently. You are cheating plain and simple. I am glad CCP is doing this - but they need to limit one instance of .exe per machine as well Your supposed to play the game - not your group of characters.

You are stealing from me when you mine out a belt or gank me with 4 ships or do anything with a group that you could not do by manually entering the commands. Face the truth - anything else is just smoke and mirrors you throw up defending a cheating method......


omg... either the worst troll I've ever seen in here or... well, don't wanna see the *zip* thingy from an ISD here so I cut that part out

Option 2: You're actually serious.

Quote:
You are stealing from me when you mine out a belt or gank me with 4 ships
-
do anything with a group that you could not do by manually entering the commands

4 Ships from me, all commands manually entered, no software or anything. Just because YOU are too SLOW doesn't mean nobody can. 4 Ships is pretty easy for some people.
http://fs2.directupload.net/images/150127/fzwp3qty.png

I am stealing from you if I use a ship more? So if there is a sale in a supermarket, a guy who walks in with 2 bags instead of 1 like you is STEALING from you?
Sorry but this is the most ridiculous thing I've heard today. You can argue about software-use, but limit to 1 client per user? You saw CCP promoting multiple accounts? Many things in eve are impossible without multiple characters, so wait and trust someone else for every little thing?

I wanna see you playing in 2 years, maybe do pvp/Incursion/wh whatever and saying: "I am absolutely fine with 1 character and never needed a 2nd one."
Alavaria Fera
Imperial Shipment
#3309 - 2015-02-03 05:44:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Alavaria Fera
Kaphrah wrote:
Balon Mythos Adoudel wrote:
Everyone says let CCP beat them for us...I play Eve - you do not when you multibox. You come in with a 30-40 character fleet and take all the ice in a belt "stealing" it from legit players. You could not do that if you ran these independently. You are cheating plain and simple. I am glad CCP is doing this - but they need to limit one instance of .exe per machine as well

omg... either the worst troll I've ever seen in here or... well, don't wanna see the *zip* thingy from an ISD here so I cut that part out

Option 2: You're actually serious.

I think option 2.

They want ccp to beat the multiboxers for them

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?

KC Kamikaze
Blue-Fire
Great Blue Balls of Fire
#3310 - 2015-02-04 20:50:35 UTC
"petitionfleet" doctrine ... lmao I love it!
Killy Zane
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#3311 - 2015-02-04 21:16:19 UTC
To the crowd of people claiming unfair advantage.

Elevate your game.

Eve is about finding and gaining advantage. Outplaying other players.
CCP Seagull has said this is the direction she is taking the game.

You say: I dont want to multibox and I'm not going to pay up for
extra accounts.

Here is what that is like: a player mining belts in their venture
yelling at people in mining barges for having an unfair advantage
while being unwilling to use a mining barge because they dont want
to and it costs too much.

Elevate your game.

-

Which of the following scenarios seem more unfair to you?

a.) I can pay real money right now and i'll have ~800,000,000 more isk than you

b.) I can pay real money right now and get isboxer and alt accounts
and in about a month from now i will have ~800,000,000 more isk than you

One of these things you don't bat an eyelid at, and it is clearly the more unfair of the two.

-

Multiboxing can be done with one moniter, for free. The fact that isboxer
is a paid service is irrelevant. You need to decide if you are against
multiboxing or isboxer. If you use the terms interchangeably, your
arguments are invalid.

In closing, get some sense you ignorant hypocrites and elevate your game.
Trakow
Beta Switch
#3312 - 2015-02-04 22:36:49 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
Well, I finally got a response from CCP regarding their true stance on things and how THEY interpret their EULA, which in the end, is all that matters.

Removed correspondence with CCP. -ISD Dorrim Barstorlode

So basically, get caught, get banned, end of story. Little workarounds like videofx overlays and round-robin are included in bannable "features"/software.

My discussion with them continues. And I'm also learning about their little spy method and how it works. Quite simple and effective, to the point where if you get caught using the software, you can't deny using it after they even tell you what version of the software you're using. LOL

And yes, the banning has commenced. And thanks to that, I now have my wormhole all to myself since the other resident who lived in it got banned for round-robin use. He was flying his 8 BC's back and forth through the wormholes to force them closed and try to block me from getting back in. It was quite annoying. But now I've had all the time in the world to destroy his POS and everything in it. Quite the loot too. He's gonna be pissed when he logs back in LMAO

See you all in space! Twisted
ashley Eoner
#3313 - 2015-02-04 23:27:44 UTC  |  Edited by: ashley Eoner
So I'm supposed to believe a character that has 5 posts all of which are attempts to troll or claim "tears" from isboxers....


That response contradicts what boxers have been told prior. Round robin was always iffy and I'm pretty convinced it's the source of some of the bans we've seen.


I mean seriously your response would ban windowed mode as that changes the way the game is displayed and played. All technical of course.
Marsha Mallow
#3314 - 2015-02-05 00:15:26 UTC
ashley Eoner wrote:
So I'm supposed to believe a character that has 5 posts all of which are attempts to troll or claim "tears" from isboxers....

That response contradicts what boxers have been told prior. Round robin was always iffy and I'm pretty convinced it's the source of some of the bans we've seen.

I mean seriously your response would ban windowed mode as that changes the way the game is displayed and played. All technical of course.

You forgot to capitalise your first name. And then decided to be 'ashley'. You're not exactly 'reliable' in various contexts for these crimes. Never mind the botting, squawking, poisonous attitude, badposting etc.

@ Trakow - that's really good to see actually. If it's a genuine mail you are probably about to get your bum smacked for reposting it. Having said that, maybe Devs and GMs who make clear statements could add a footnote to certain mails so that they can be reposted by players without them being punished. There's no specific incident referenced there, so let's hope they exercise that discretion appropriately.

I do like the language in the mail tho, especially given the drivel just before your comment.

Ripard Teg > For the morons in the room:

Sweets > U can dd my face any day

Nolak Ataru
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#3315 - 2015-02-05 00:27:34 UTC
Marsha Mallow wrote:
ashley Eoner wrote:
So I'm supposed to believe a character that has 5 posts all of which are attempts to troll or claim "tears" from isboxers....

That response contradicts what boxers have been told prior. Round robin was always iffy and I'm pretty convinced it's the source of some of the bans we've seen.

I mean seriously your response would ban windowed mode as that changes the way the game is displayed and played. All technical of course.

You forgot to capitalise your first name. And then decided to be 'ashley'. You're not exactly 'reliable' in various contexts for these crimes. Never mind the botting, squawking, poisonous attitude, badposting etc.

The irony of you attacking him for capitalization when you can't even spell Marshmellow yourself combined with your complete disregard for previous statements by CCP and your utter refusal to acknowledge the difference between ISBoxer and a bot (a difference that CCP THEMSELVES HAVE REPEATEDLY POINTED OUT) leads me to conclude you're either a troll and should have your posting privileges revoked, or a person attempting to imitate an ostrich with their head in the sand, ignoring the world around them, in which case you should go back to Tumblr. Either way, please leave and let the big boys try to get some stuff done here.
Trakow
Beta Switch
#3316 - 2015-02-05 00:57:54 UTC
ashley Eoner wrote:
So I'm supposed to believe a character that has 5 posts all of which are attempts to troll or claim "tears" from isboxers....


That response contradicts what boxers have been told prior. Round robin was always iffy and I'm pretty convinced it's the source of some of the bans we've seen.


I mean seriously your response would ban windowed mode as that changes the way the game is displayed and played. All technical of course.


Believe what you want. You seriously think I use my main character to post comments? LOL Being a cloaky pilot 99% of the time, that wouldn't be very stealthy of me now would it?
Marsha Mallow
#3317 - 2015-02-05 01:32:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Marsha Mallow
Nolak Ataru wrote:
Attacking him for capitalization when you can't even spell Marshmellow yourself

I bought Marsha in 2008, mainly because the name amused me. I've announced this fairly loudly and frequently. You can petition to have lowercase names reset AFAIK, there is no reason to continue playing with an obvious spelling error. Unless you are being a lowercase rebel, or are proud to be forever known as 'that thick as pigshit lowercase scrub'.

Nolak Ataru wrote:
combined with your complete disregard for previous statements by CCP

Quite Possibly CCP since the comments paraphrase the EULA & TOS wrote:
We will not authorize or otherwise sanction the use of any third party software.
You may not use your own or third-party software to modify any content appearing within the Game environment or change how the Game is played.
You may not use your own or any third-party software, macros or other stored rapid keystrokes or other patterns of play that facilitate acquisition of items, currency, objects, character attributes, rank or status at an accelerated rate when compared with ordinary Game play.
You may not rewrite or modify the user interface or otherwise manipulate data in any way to acquire items, currency, objects, character attributes or beneficial actions not actually acquired or achieved in the Game.
We do not endorse or condone the use of player-made software or any other third party applications or software that confers an unfair benefit to players.


Nolak Ataru wrote:
your utter refusal to acknowledge the difference between ISBoxer and a bot (a difference that CCP THEMSELVES HAVE REPEATEDLY POINTED OUT)

LOOKS LIKE THEY CHANGED THEIR MINDS, EH.
I'm not seeing signs of the botting apocalypse yet. Although your multiboxing forums are deranged enough to make me consider creating an account just to tease them. It's a bit tricky working out who to violate first with so many targets. Looks like a lot of effort when I can just call you a filthy botting peasant here and watch you flail about impotently.

Nolak Ataru wrote:
leads me to conclude you're either a troll and should have your posting privileges revoked, or a person attempting to imitate an ostrich with their head in the sand, ignoring the world around them, in which case you should go back to Tumblr. Either way, please leave and let the big boys try to get some stuff done here.

It's only trolling if you get annoyed in response to these remarks. I find it ironic given you and your crowd are whinging about whinging and now resort to calling critics trolls who deserve to have their posting privileges revoked. If you feel violated, abused, harassed, griefed - report me to Detective Teg. Ezwal can scrub me anytime. Maybe Barstool too.

The 'big boys' crumble really quick when you dropkick their weak spot (which is usually very close to their enormous ego, so it's hard to miss). It's not even like we need to bother attacking you given that CCP ~finally~ appear to have reclassified you as the botting scrubs you always were. I'm making a hand gesture at you right now. Report me.

Ripard Teg > For the morons in the room:

Sweets > U can dd my face any day

Nolak Ataru
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#3318 - 2015-02-05 01:41:52 UTC
You can petition to fix lower-case names within 30 days or so from creation. Anything afterwards is up in the air.

If you were an actual critic, you'd (try to) bring up reasons why ISBoxer is bad, or how it's cheating, or pay2win. Since you're not, you're a troll. And I'll continue to call you a troll until you try to bring up an argument against ISBoxer that cannot be used against having two accounts online at once, or programs and websites such as Fuzzworks, Pyfa, or EVEMon.

By the way, they still haven't classified us as bots. Re-read the blog. Bots are automated programs that don't need a person behind the keyboard to operate.

Quote:
... software ... confers an unfair benefit to players...

[Citation Needed]
Marsha Mallow
#3319 - 2015-02-05 01:47:59 UTC
Nolak Ataru wrote:
You can petition to fix lower-case names within 30 days or so from creation. Anything afterwards is up in the air.

If you were an actual critic, you'd (try to) bring up reasons why ISBoxer is bad, or how it's cheating, or pay2win. Since you're not, you're a troll. And I'll continue to call you a troll until you try to bring up an argument against ISBoxer that cannot be used against having two accounts online at once, or programs and websites such as Fuzzworks, Pyfa, or EVEMon.

By the way, they still haven't classified us as bots. Re-read the blog. Bots are automated programs that don't need a person behind the keyboard to operate.

Quote:
... software ... confers an unfair benefit to players...

[Citation Needed]

That's fine. I'll continue to call you a botter, a cheater, a farmer and a peasant. Don't take it personally (and don't make it personal). All in good fun.

I always thought ISBoxer looked like ISKBotter anyway P

Ripard Teg > For the morons in the room:

Sweets > U can dd my face any day

ashley Eoner
#3320 - 2015-02-05 01:49:43 UTC
I had no idea people cared so much about a lowercase character.