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So, i was running the Gallente Epic arc, and....

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Solonius Rex
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2015-02-03 15:00:44 UTC
...Ive been using the cruise missiles against the battleships, when i noticed that my damage was all over the place.

At one point, i was dealing 1500 damage, and then, suddenly it decreased to 400.

The speed was nearly the same(It was going faster when i dealt the 1500 damage for some reason), so can someone explain to me whats happening here?

I understand the missile damage formula, but everything about it seems to be off.
Abrazzar
Vardaugas Family
#2 - 2015-02-03 15:29:30 UTC
Solonius Rex
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2015-02-03 15:45:46 UTC
Abrazzar wrote:
MWD signature bloom?


He was burning at me with nearly the same speed in both instances, one from 70km and the other from 40km.

This seems to happen during L4 missions as well, im getting extremely mixed damages even though im attacking the same battleship, same speed etc. One second im doing 3k damage, then the next only 800.
NovaCat13
Seymourus and Co.
#4 - 2015-02-03 15:50:29 UTC
Did you transition to a new HP pool? Shields vs Armor vs Hull? Since they often have different resistances, I'll sometimes catch myself wondering what changed between shots and realize I'm just dumb.

Just say NO to Dailies
Abrazzar
Vardaugas Family
#5 - 2015-02-03 15:56:42 UTC
Oh, now I remember: Defender missiles. Sometimes they hit, sometimes they don't.

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New Mining Mechanics
War Kitten
Panda McLegion
#6 - 2015-02-03 16:14:00 UTC
Did the lower number hit only come once in a while... say right about the time a particular ship died? You can't hit for 1500 damage if there's only 400 hp left.

I don't judge people by their race, religion, color, size, age, gender, or ethnicity. I judge them by their grammar, spelling, syntax, punctuation, clarity of expression, and logical consistency.
Soldarius
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#7 - 2015-02-03 16:22:59 UTC
Defender missiles. That will do it. Many NPCs have them.

http://youtu.be/YVkUvmDQ3HY
Solonius Rex
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2015-02-03 16:44:37 UTC
NovaCat13 wrote:
Did you transition to a new HP pool? Shields vs Armor vs Hull? Since they often have different resistances, I'll sometimes catch myself wondering what changed between shots and realize I'm just dumb.


My understanding was that NPC sheild and armor have the same resists.

Abrazzar wrote:
Oh, now I remember: Defender missiles. Sometimes they hit, sometimes they don't.


Nope, i was fighting this, for example, and he didnt have defender missiles.

http://games.chruker.dk/eve_online/item.php?type_id=24126

Damage was still erratic.

War Kitten wrote:
Did the lower number hit only come once in a while... say right about the time a particular ship died? You can't hit for 1500 damage if there's only 400 hp left.


Nope, it was right in the middle, i.e. middle of shields, middle of hull, etc. Literally, i was in the middle of hitting the enemies sheilds, it would go 50% down because i did 4k damage, and then the next would only bring his sheilds down to like 40% because i only did 800 damage.
Tikra Vargur
Eagle Feathers
#9 - 2015-02-03 17:59:13 UTC
I have noticed the same thing ratting with my Nemesis, I used to have no problem taking out Clone Soldiers. I would do pretty much the same damage start to finish. Now I can't kill them. I do full damage till they are about 30 percent armour then my DPS dies and I can't break the tank. One day Clone Soldiers are easy money, the next I can't kill them??
Xenuria
#10 - 2015-02-03 20:53:12 UTC
The way in which most NPCs interact in combat follows different rules than other players.

Signature strength for example has no effect on the ability of enemy rats to jam you.
They also don't suffer the same sig rad penalty from using MWD.
Combat with Epic Arc Rats is very unpredictable because that aspect of the game hasn't gotten attention for some time.

CSM 12 Candidate
Solonius Rex
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2015-02-03 20:59:18 UTC
Xenuria wrote:
The way in which most NPCs interact in combat follows different rules than other players.

Signature strength for example has no effect on the ability of enemy rats to jam you.
They also don't suffer the same sig rad penalty from using MWD.
Combat with Epic Arc Rats is very unpredictable because that aspect of the game hasn't gotten attention for some time.


I did it with L4 rats and the outcome was the same. Highly erratic damage. No significant change in speed.
Black Panpher
CastleKickers
Rote Kapelle
#12 - 2015-02-03 21:02:13 UTC
Tikra Vargur wrote:
I have noticed the same thing ratting with my Nemesis, I used to have no problem taking out Clone Soldiers. I would do pretty much the same damage start to finish. Now I can't kill them. I do full damage till they are about 30 percent armour then my DPS dies and I can't break the tank. One day Clone Soldiers are easy money, the next I can't kill them??


Do you use a target painter?
Solonius Rex
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2015-02-03 21:03:21 UTC
Black Panpher wrote:
Tikra Vargur wrote:
I have noticed the same thing ratting with my Nemesis, I used to have no problem taking out Clone Soldiers. I would do pretty much the same damage start to finish. Now I can't kill them. I do full damage till they are about 30 percent armour then my DPS dies and I can't break the tank. One day Clone Soldiers are easy money, the next I can't kill them??


Do you use a target painter?


I thought it might be my target painter, so i decided to switch it off. The outcome was the same.
Black Panpher
CastleKickers
Rote Kapelle
#14 - 2015-02-03 21:07:04 UTC
Solonius Rex wrote:
Black Panpher wrote:
Tikra Vargur wrote:
I have noticed the same thing ratting with my Nemesis, I used to have no problem taking out Clone Soldiers. I would do pretty much the same damage start to finish. Now I can't kill them. I do full damage till they are about 30 percent armour then my DPS dies and I can't break the tank. One day Clone Soldiers are easy money, the next I can't kill them??


Do you use a target painter?


I thought it might be my target painter, so i decided to switch it off. The outcome was the same.


I was having the same problem as the poster I quoted, I found having my target painter in optimal range made my damage much more consistent.
Solonius Rex
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#15 - 2015-02-03 21:10:23 UTC
Black Panpher wrote:
Solonius Rex wrote:
Black Panpher wrote:
Tikra Vargur wrote:
I have noticed the same thing ratting with my Nemesis, I used to have no problem taking out Clone Soldiers. I would do pretty much the same damage start to finish. Now I can't kill them. I do full damage till they are about 30 percent armour then my DPS dies and I can't break the tank. One day Clone Soldiers are easy money, the next I can't kill them??


Do you use a target painter?


I thought it might be my target painter, so i decided to switch it off. The outcome was the same.


I was having the same problem as the poster I quoted, I found having my target painter in optimal range made my damage much more consistent.


As far as i know, rats have the same resists in both armor and sheilds, correct? All info on all NPCs seem to confirm this.
Tikra Vargur
Eagle Feathers
#16 - 2015-02-03 21:45:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Tikra Vargur
No target painter,I have been doing this for awhile and the damage is always steady. Caldari Navy Inferno Torps. I usually get two volleys before I am targeted back. The damage works steadily through the shields and then the armor and then all of a sudden my DPS sucks and the armor is slowly regenerating and I can't get it do anything about it.

I have tried to maintain fire only to see the armor completely regenerate while my anemic DPS never recovers.

Too bad really I was having a lot of fun with that setup. If its not a bug it's really disappointing
Amelia Ronuken
Doomheim
#17 - 2015-02-04 01:21:01 UTC
Solonius Rex wrote:
NovaCat13 wrote:
Did you transition to a new HP pool? Shields vs Armor vs Hull? Since they often have different resistances, I'll sometimes catch myself wondering what changed between shots and realize I'm just dumb.


My understanding was that NPC sheild and armor have the same resists.

Abrazzar wrote:
Oh, now I remember: Defender missiles. Sometimes they hit, sometimes they don't.


Nope, i was fighting this, for example, and he didnt have defender missiles.

http://games.chruker.dk/eve_online/item.php?type_id=24126

Damage was still erratic.

War Kitten wrote:
Did the lower number hit only come once in a while... say right about the time a particular ship died? You can't hit for 1500 damage if there's only 400 hp left.


Nope, it was right in the middle, i.e. middle of shields, middle of hull, etc. Literally, i was in the middle of hitting the enemies sheilds, it would go 50% down because i did 4k damage, and then the next would only bring his sheilds down to like 40% because i only did 800 damage.



According to that link, your NPC does have defender missiles.

"entityDefenderChance 0.13"
Ferni Ka'Nviiou
Doomheim
#18 - 2015-02-04 04:53:53 UTC
You were shooting in hull, which has zero resist, and then it boosted its shields (hence giving shield resists).

Also, when you are about to penetrate armor, damage has a chance to damage the hull as well (which has zero resists).
Couple this with defender missiles, which this NPC does have, then yes, 'erratic' damage will happen everywhere.


Now, just to make this clear, this entity may have same armor/shield resists, but that is certainly not true for the majority of NPCs.
Different layer resists and defender missiles caused your erratic damage.
Theodoric Darkwind
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#19 - 2015-02-04 05:14:13 UTC
Are you using Furies by chance? I've noticed that faction cruise missiles produce much more consistent damage than Furies.
Agent Luther Sloan
Doomheim
#20 - 2015-02-04 08:08:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Agent Luther Sloan
Nice to see another person who runs the arcs. If you want to have more fun, try it in a frig next time. You won't have any trouble with damage application then! :-)
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