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I'm Starting a new Manufacturer Pilot or will get one from Bazaar...
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Oinola Akachi
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1 - 2015-02-03 19:02:01 UTC
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=402261&find=unread
I'm Starting a new Manufacturer Pilot or will get one from Bazaar...

Additionally, I am looking for advice as to what would be best for me to try this out.


Should I just try to do manufacturing of items with only a few sets of Blueprints or should I try Inventions.


Thank in advance!
( and please keep the forum PvP to a minimum.)
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#2 - 2015-02-03 21:15:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Tau Cabalander
CJ Alland
CB Trading
#3 - 2015-02-03 21:43:18 UTC
When I first started production I started producing ships. You'll need a few bill to get going. Cruisers and Battle cruisers have good profit.

I did then and still do buy BPC's. I don't own any BPO's.

Means you can change between what's profitable and what's not..
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#4 - 2015-02-03 23:31:10 UTC
CJ Alland wrote:
When I first started production I started producing ships. You'll need a few bill to get going. Cruisers and Battle cruisers have good profit.

** CRINGE **

Building ships:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1201026#post1201026
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4407205#post4407205

More:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4065628#post4065628
Oinola Akachi
State War Academy
Caldari State
#5 - 2015-02-04 00:58:41 UTC
Well , thanks, but I don't even know if I will save ISK in buying costs from producing the material or ship.

I have no idea what good equipment I could build and how much it would cost.
And I don't know if it's easier to save if mass producing.


I also read that there is a lot of science skills to train , which seems more scientific.


Or is that only for Inventions?


Doesn't the production aspect relate mostly to the Production Skills for now?


Also, does invention allows you to make BPO for sale instead of having to buy BPC?
Agent Unknown
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#6 - 2015-02-04 19:19:00 UTC
Oinola Akachi wrote:
Well , thanks, but I don't even know if I will save ISK in buying costs from producing the material or ship.

I have no idea what good equipment I could build and how much it would cost.
And I don't know if it's easier to save if mass producing.


I also read that there is a lot of science skills to train , which seems more scientific.


Or is that only for Inventions?


Doesn't the production aspect relate mostly to the Production Skills for now?


Also, does invention allows you to make BPO for sale instead of having to buy BPC?


You have to buy the BPOs on the open market. There's no way to "create" BPOs. Invention is required for the production of T2 equipment and ships (and you need BPCs as input which are not given back if the invention succeeds or fails).

For production, you need all the skills under the "Production" tab as high as possible. Material Efficiency and Mass Production should be at V, and Advanced Mass Production and Supply Chain Management should be at IV (V eventually, but it's a long train).

You also need Science skills for *both* invention and the manufacturing of the BPCs that you get from invention. If you're dealing with T1 only and not inventing, you don't need Science skills at all.

As for profits, it's a well-kept secret so you'll have to find it on your own. Manufacturing calculators exist for this reason.
Oinola Akachi
State War Academy
Caldari State
#7 - 2015-02-04 19:43:13 UTC
Agent Unknown wrote:
You have to buy the BPOs on the open market. There's no way to "create" BPOs. Invention is required for the production of T2 equipment and ships (and you need BPCs as input which are not given back if the invention succeeds or fails).
All right , I didn't know that BPOs could not be created. Isn't there a way to loot BPOs from missions or Exploration or something?

I didn't know that Invention was required to produce T2 equipment and I didn't know that BPCs were input and possibly lost in Inventions.

Agent Unknown wrote:
For production, you need all the skills under the "Production" tab as high as possible. Material Efficiency and Mass Production should be at V, and Advanced Mass Production and Supply Chain Management should be at IV (V eventually, but it's a long train).

You also need Science skills for *both* invention and the manufacturing of the BPCs that you get from invention. If you're dealing with T1 only and not inventing, you don't need Science skills at all.

As for profits, it's a well-kept secret so you'll have to find it on your own. Manufacturing calculators exist for this reason.
Well, ok, but I will try to save money on my purchasing costs to start.
Thank for the Science tip too.

But I guess that, for scientific reasons, I would be better to deal with T2s and more.
Agent Unknown
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#8 - 2015-02-04 20:05:23 UTC
Oinola Akachi wrote:
Agent Unknown wrote:
You have to buy the BPOs on the open market. There's no way to "create" BPOs. Invention is required for the production of T2 equipment and ships (and you need BPCs as input which are not given back if the invention succeeds or fails).
All right , I didn't know that BPOs could not be created. Isn't there a way to loot BPOs from missions or Exploration or something?

I didn't know that Invention was required to produce T2 equipment and I didn't know that BPCs were input and possibly lost in Inventions.

Agent Unknown wrote:
For production, you need all the skills under the "Production" tab as high as possible. Material Efficiency and Mass Production should be at V, and Advanced Mass Production and Supply Chain Management should be at IV (V eventually, but it's a long train).

You also need Science skills for *both* invention and the manufacturing of the BPCs that you get from invention. If you're dealing with T1 only and not inventing, you don't need Science skills at all.

As for profits, it's a well-kept secret so you'll have to find it on your own. Manufacturing calculators exist for this reason.
Well, ok, but I will try to save money on my purchasing costs to start.
Thank for the Science tip too.

But I guess that, for scientific reasons, I would be better to deal with T2s and more.


BPCs are always lost in invention ...but you create them from copying the BPOs.

BPOs as far as I know never drop as loot (BPCs do as limited run copies). They're seeded by NPC sell orders, so check the markets.

The important distinction:

BPO - BluePrint original. You can research the ME/TE levels of these to improve profits and produce them faster. You can build "unlimited" amounts of items with these blueprints with the maximum allowed run time of 30 days.

BPC - Created by "copying" a BPO. You select how many runs you want the blueprint to have - more runs means it takes longer to copy. You can build from these (so you can more than one production line), but you cannot research them. You use these as part of invention as well.
Elena Thiesant
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2015-02-04 21:03:28 UTC
Oinola Akachi wrote:
Isn't there a way to loot BPOs from missions or Exploration or something?


No.

You can get BPCs from exploration sites, but blueprint originals are bought on the market and traded on contract only
Quote:

I didn't know that Invention was required to produce T2 equipment and I didn't know that BPCs were input and possibly lost in Inventions.


The T1 BPCs are always used up, not possibly. You may get a T2 BPC out, or you may not. It's chance-based

Quote:
But I guess that, for scientific reasons, I would be better to deal with T2s and more.


Start with T1 to get a feel for things, but stay away from ships, they're generally a bad place to start. T2 is more complex, more moving parts. There's the invention, then you need to buy materials, build components, then build the final item. T1 you just buy materials, make the final item.
Do Little
Bluenose Trading
#10 - 2015-02-05 12:28:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Do Little
A good place to start T1 manufacturing is with small rigs. Blueprints are inexpensive and only take a few days to research. The in game industry tool will give you "average" cost and selling price to help determine what is worth building. As a beginning rig manufacturer you can buy salvage in small quantities at backwater stations well below market average. By researching markets you can usually sell for above average prices.

You will need working capital for any type of manufacturing but small rigs are easier on the wallet than most products. You won't make any isk selling to buy orders and sell orders need to be managed - plan to adjust your prices twice a day and expect your capital to be tied up for at least a week from raw material purchase to finished product sale in hubs like Dodixie, Amarr and Hek. For a small industrialist Jita is a good place to buy but generally not a good place to sell.

For rigs the skills required are modest - you will need Jury Rigging 3 and other rigging skills at level 1. Industry should be 5, Mass Production and Advanced Industry level 4 to start - Research and Laboratory Operation to at least 4 for ME/TE and copying. You will quickly run out of production slots and need Advanced Mass Production to level 3. You will also need Trade, Broker Relations and Accounting to reduce taxes.

Many T2 frigates and some T2 modules can be very profitable - especially if you harvest your own PI and make your own advanced components but you'll need a few million skillpoints in science to make this work at all and a POS to make it work well.
Oinola Akachi
State War Academy
Caldari State
#11 - 2015-02-05 15:48:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Oinola Akachi
Agent Unknown wrote:
BPCs are always lost in invention ...but you create them from copying the BPOs.
So, does that means that I can copy BPOs?
I guess I can't use BPOs for Researching Inventions.
Additionally, that I rather have to make BPCs (or buy them) from BPOs for Inventions.

Agent Unknown wrote:
BPOs as far as I know never drop as loot (BPCs do as limited run copies). They're seeded by NPC sell orders, so check the markets.
Yes, that would be important. I guess there are tricks or ways to find where and how those BPOs are sold from which NPCs, or why. (+ Those one can afford...)
I also guess it must be hard to defend (or escort) them if they have to be carried.

Agent Unknown wrote:
The important distinction:

BPO - BluePrint original. You can research the ME/TE levels of these to improve profits and produce them faster. You can build "unlimited" amounts of items with these blueprints with the maximum allowed run time of 30 days.

BPC - Created by "copying" a BPO. You select how many runs you want the blueprint to have - more runs means it takes longer to copy. You can build from these (so you can more than one production line), but you cannot research them. You use these as part of invention as well.

ME/TE levels for Material Efficiency, Time Efficiency (previously Production Efficiency) ... I'm mentioning this here since it was hard to find their meaning.
I'm reading a bit from EVE University Wiki here, but I can't find exactly what I'm looking for yet.

For instance, I read about Ancient Relics (from debris of a Sleeper facility), Data Cores and more...
I still don't know any of that.

In fact, I don't plan on starting this Manufacturing Pilot for a few more days or week.


Also, can I make one pilot for research and one for manufacturing production?
I already have a Refiner, and a PI pilot, which made level 5 items (that includes level 4 and 3).
I also have a trader, and may make a new buyer (second trader Alt).
I have an Explorer which can scan for Relics before I make new Explorers.

I also read that Salvaging was good to get rare materials for ships parts like rigs.
Is that true?

(I'm all out of time now.)
Agent Unknown
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#12 - 2015-02-05 16:34:25 UTC
Oinola Akachi wrote:
Agent Unknown wrote:
BPCs are always lost in invention ...but you create them from copying the BPOs.
So, does that means that I can copy BPOs?
I guess I can't use BPOs for Researching Inventions.
Additionally, that I rather have to make BPCs (or buy them) from BPOs for Inventions.

Agent Unknown wrote:
BPOs as far as I know never drop as loot (BPCs do as limited run copies). They're seeded by NPC sell orders, so check the markets.
Yes, that would be important. I guess there are tricks or ways to find where and how those BPOs are sold from which NPCs, or why. (+ Those one can afford...)
I also guess it must be hard to defend (or escort) them if they have to be carried.

Agent Unknown wrote:
The important distinction:

BPO - BluePrint original. You can research the ME/TE levels of these to improve profits and produce them faster. You can build "unlimited" amounts of items with these blueprints with the maximum allowed run time of 30 days.

BPC - Created by "copying" a BPO. You select how many runs you want the blueprint to have - more runs means it takes longer to copy. You can build from these (so you can more than one production line), but you cannot research them. You use these as part of invention as well.

ME/TE levels for Material Efficiency, Time Efficiency (previously Production Efficiency) ... I'm mentioning this here since it was hard to find their meaning.
I'm reading a bit from [url=http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Invention]EVE University Wiki/url] here, but I can't find exactly what I'm looking for yet.

For instance, I read about Ancient Relics (from debris of a Sleeper facility), Data Cores and more...
I still don't know any of that.

In fact, I don't plan on starting this Manufacturing Pilot for a few more days or week.


Also, can I make one pilot for research and one for manufacturing production?
I already have a Refiner, and a PI pilot, which made level 5 items (that includes level 4 and 3).
I also have a trader, and may make a new buyer (second trader Alt).
I have an Explorer which can scan for Relics before I make new Explorers.

I also read that Salvaging was good to get rare materials for ships parts like rigs.
Is that true?

(I'm all out of time now.)


As mentioned above, I was corrected in that BPOs are never dropped from NPCs or exploring, so you'll need to buy these from the market or off contracts.

Invention is a bit of a beast when you first start. Datacores are obtained by using research agents (R&D) and they generate a certain amount of cores per day (and doing missions for them increases this). They are relatively inexpensive and abundant on the market, though. Relics (or decrypters) modify your invention job in various ways.

One pilot can do both research and manufacturing as they don't share slots (but you'll need skills).

In regards to ME/TE levels, ME reduces the materials required to build a product while TE reduces the time.

BPOs are copied to make BPCs that share identical stats (except they are limited in terms of number of runs). You cannot use BPOs for inventing.

And yes, salvaging gives you a lot of materials needed for rig manufacturing.
Oinola Akachi
State War Academy
Caldari State
#13 - 2015-02-06 15:11:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Oinola Akachi
Agent Unknown wrote:
1. As mentioned above, I was corrected in that BPOs are never dropped from NPCs or exploring, so you'll need to buy these from the market or off contracts.

2. Invention is a bit of a beast when you first start. Datacores are obtained by using research agents (R&D) and they generate a certain amount of cores per day (and doing missions for them increases this). They are relatively inexpensive and abundant on the market, though. Relics (or decrypters) modify your invention job in various ways.

3. One pilot can do both research and manufacturing as they don't share slots (but you'll need skills).

4. In regards to ME/TE levels, ME reduces the materials required to build a product while TE reduces the time.

BPOs are copied to make BPCs that share identical stats (except they are limited in terms of number of runs). You cannot use BPOs for inventing.

And yes, salvaging gives you a lot of materials needed for rig manufacturing.

1. I guess players sell the BPOs on the market on contracts, but I read that NPCs also sell those at station.
I understand that there can be certain requirements before they can be purchased.

2. I am not sure how to get Datacores. I'm not sure how much they cost (relatively inexpensive can be relatively too vague to get a numerical value).
I'm not sure how to get the Relics or what decrypters are.

3. Can pilot work in group for manufacturing? How does that work. I read it was possible.

4. I don't know how to affect or change the ME/TE levels.

(All out of time again, with threats of shutting down the room if no one leaves...
Btw, I also want to answer the 2 other posters who replied.)
Elena Thiesant
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#14 - 2015-02-06 15:37:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Elena Thiesant
Oinola Akachi wrote:
1. I guess players sell the BPOs on the market on contracts, but I read that NPCs also sell those at station.
I understand that there can be certain requirements before they can be purchased.


The only requirement to buy a BPO is that you have enough ISK. Unresearched BPOs are sold on the market. Researched ones only on contract.

Quote:
2. I am not sure how to get Datacores. I'm not sure how much they cost (relatively inexpensive can be relatively too vague to get a numerical value).


You buy them from the market

Quote:
3. Can pilot work in group for manufacturing?


Not really. A job is started by a single pilot. About the limit of cooperation is working together to get materials (each buys some and there's an agreement to share the profit) or for things like capital ships which are built out of components, multiple pilots each build some of the components required
Oinola Akachi
State War Academy
Caldari State
#15 - 2015-02-06 18:41:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Oinola Akachi
Elena Thiesant wrote:
Oinola Akachi wrote:
Isn't there a way to loot BPOs from missions or Exploration or something?


No.

You can get BPCs from exploration sites, but blueprint originals are bought on the market and traded on contract only

Quote:

1. I guess players sell the BPOs on the market on contracts, but I read that NPCs also sell those at station.
I understand that there can be certain requirements before they can be purchased.


The only requirement to buy a BPO is that you have enough ISK. Unresearched BPOs are sold on the market. Researched ones only on contract.


I didn't know that BPOs could be purchased Unresearched. How could they be sold Unresearched? Would it be that those that are sold

I don't know the difference between researched BPO and Unresearched.


I saw some exploration sites today, including data and relic.

(I'll try to continue to answer to your replies later, but it took me over an hour today so far.)



Elena Thiesant wrote:
Quote:
2. I am not sure how to get Datacores. I'm not sure how much they cost (relatively inexpensive can be relatively too vague to get a numerical value).


You buy them from the market

I got some of those from elsewhere before and maybe I still have some left.

3.
http://community.eveonline.com/releases/crius/
http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/industry-teams/
http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/the-price-of-change/
http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/teams-and-the-revamp-of-industry-in-eve-online/


+
"Quote:"
... There's the invention, then you need to buy materials, build components, then build the final item. T1 you just buy materials, make the final item.
End of Quote.

I build components from PI... I don't know if I need that.
Phig Neutron
Starbreaker and Sons
#16 - 2015-02-06 21:31:27 UTC
Oinola Akachi wrote:
I don't know the difference between researched BPO and Unresearched.

You buy the BPO from an NPC station. Then you research it to improve ME or TE. That makes it "researched" (or you might say, "improved"). The improved ones can then be sold via contracts.

You're over-thinking this. Just buy a BPO for something cheap (like ammunition?) and manufacture from it, so you can learn how it works. Then start trying things that are more complex.
Oinola Akachi
State War Academy
Caldari State
#17 - 2015-02-06 21:41:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Oinola Akachi
Phig Neutron wrote:
Oinola Akachi wrote:
I don't know the difference between researched BPO and Unresearched.

You buy the BPO from an NPC station. Then you research it to improve ME or TE. That makes it "researched" (or you might say, "improved"). The improved ones can then be sold via contracts.

You're over-thinking this. Just buy a BPO for something cheap (like ammunition?) and manufacture from it, so you can learn how it works. Then start trying things that are more complex.

It's funny how Inventions and Research don't match... Or, it's funny how Inventions and Research are different.

I know how to manufacture, I did the turorials.

I never tried to specialize in it.


~ 1 post left, Do Little...

I will need the programs to calculate profit and potential profits.

btw, I am working on programming myself, and third party program and design
Phig Neutron
Starbreaker and Sons
#18 - 2015-02-07 00:05:27 UTC
Oinola Akachi wrote:
I will need the programs to calculate profit and potential profits.


Microsoft Excel!
As you create your own spreadsheets, your understanding of the game will improve.
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#19 - 2015-02-07 01:47:10 UTC
Phig Neutron wrote:
Oinola Akachi wrote:
I will need the programs to calculate profit and potential profits.

Microsoft Excel!
As you create your own spreadsheets, your understanding of the game will improve.

I use OpenOffice (free) but there is also LibreOffice (free) and of course Google Docs.
Veine Miromme
Gallente Federation
#20 - 2015-02-07 15:51:40 UTC
1st off, Oinola`s time expired and I can`t find when he`d be able to post due to delays.
So, I am now posting this reply, in the meantime.

Do Little wrote:
1. A good place to start T1 manufacturing is with small rigs. Blueprints are inexpensive and only take a few days to research. The in game industry tool will give you "average" cost and selling price to help determine what is worth building. As a beginning rig manufacturer you can buy salvage in small quantities at backwater stations well below market average. By researching markets you can usually sell for above average prices.

2. You will need working capital for any type of manufacturing but small rigs are easier on the wallet than most products. You won't make any isk selling to buy orders and sell orders need to be managed - plan to adjust your prices twice a day and expect your capital to be tied up for at least a week from raw material purchase to finished product sale in hubs like Dodixie, Amarr and Hek. For a small industrialist Jita is a good place to buy but generally not a good place to sell.

3. For rigs the skills required are modest - you will need Jury Rigging 3 and other rigging skills at level 1. Industry should be 5, Mass Production and Advanced Industry level 4 to start - Research and Laboratory Operation to at least 4 for ME/TE and copying. You will quickly run out of production slots and need Advanced Mass Production to level 3. You will also need Trade, Broker Relations and Accounting to reduce taxes.

4. Many T2 frigates and some T2 modules can be very profitable - especially if you harvest your own PI and make your own advanced components but you'll need a few million skillpoints in science to make this work at all and a POS to make it work well.

1. I dont plan on buying any items if it`s not worth it. I would either salvage it myself, sell it, or use it for manufacturing.
I don`t know how about what research time I would need, or even skill training time it would take me yet.
Needless to say, the longer it will take me to get the info, whether I look too much into it or not enough or properly, affects the value. The faster it is for me, the more worthwhile it can be.

2. I don`t plan on adjusting my prices twice a day at this time although I probably could. I managed to find an EVE client nearby that takes me only about 15-20 minutes to walk to, and another 15-20 minutes to walk back. That is for until I can find or get my own system or connection. Until then, it is still more profitable for me to get PLEX. PLEX just allowed me to get a new Tengu at 15m SP for 6 PLEX worth. I was also offered one much more worthwhile pilot with 80m SP at 12b ISK.
There is no way I could make that much asset acquisition profit with even T3 manufacturing at this time , or probably next year.

3. I have a 3.6m SP trader here:
Doug Shahni , although that he has only low standings for trading so far.
Broker Relations is for setting up orders.
Each level of skill grants a 5% reduction in the costs associated with setting up a market order, which usually come to 1% of the order's total value. This can be further influenced by the player's standing towards the owner of the station where the order is entered.

Trade = Active buy/sell order limit increased by 4 per level of skill.
(+ Retail = Each level raises the limit of active orders by 8.)

Accounting = Each level of skill reduces transaction tax by 10%.
(+ Margin Trading = Each level of skill reduces the percentage of ISK placed in market escrow when entering buy orders. Starting with an escrow percentage of 100% at Level 0 (untrained skill), each skill level cumulatively reduces the percentage by 25%. This will bring your total escrow down to approximately 24% at level 5.)

Also,
Marketing = Skill at selling items remotely. Level 5 allows for sale of items located anywhere within current region.

Daytrading = Allows for remote modification of buy and sell orders. Level 5 allows for market order modification anywhere within current region.
Procurement = Proficiency at placing remote buy orders on the market.

...
a.
I have 4 pilots with Industry V
http://eveboard.com/pilot/Gnati_Ambramotte
http://eveboard.com/pilot/Sol_Hemah
http://eveboard.com/pilot/Koy_Artwik
http://eveboard.com/pilot/Euno_Ambramotte

b.
Additionally, I only have one pilot with Mass Production.
http://eveboard.com/pilot/Euno_Ambramotte

Also, he has Advanced Industry Level 2,
but that skill no longer is anywhere else to be found (except ingame maybe).

(Do you mean Advanced Mass Production? If so, it has a Mass Production V requirement.)

...
c.
I don't have Research or Laboratory Operation yet either.
I read Research is 5% per level for Blueprint Manufacturing time (or less hindrance?).

And Labs are used for Researching jobs...
https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Manufacturing
https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Invention
https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Researching_blueprints


4.
A POS is expensive and I do PI and Advanced Components.
It might save me to build my own T2 frigate if I compare.
However, there are also downside to not paying other players or NPCs to buy ships or equip.
- 1. The potential relation development is further hindered since the other players make no money from it.
- 2. It takes longer to build ship, and it costs EVE Time for the Pilot to build.
- 3. It can hinder the market development if the demand for sale is too high.
- 4. Even worst, the build cost can even be higher than the sell (or purchase) cost from other players.

Ship Type : Out of pod (for now)
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