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EVE New Citizens Q&A

 
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Rokh

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Gregor Parud
Imperial Academy
#101 - 2015-01-31 07:57:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Gregor Parud
This alternate reality where normal missions BS who for years never had any problems or issues suddenly now all die in a fire when doing missions, just because they're not the amazing MJD Rokh, is hilarious. Before the MJD Rokh everyone lost 17 BS a week doing missions, it all makes sense now. And that was before the Hybrid/rail buffs.

Also, apparently, fitting both AB and MJD on an armour tanked ship (which thus has the mid slots for it) is bad and makes no sense. Right.

So: lots of lies about dps, lots of not understanding game mechanics, lots of weird logic, lots of not linking any fits. Lots of "but if you use T2 ammo then Rokh projected dps is fine (it's not, it's terrible. Also, have you seen what Javelin does?)" while also saying "but the OP has low SP so a tanked fit won't work fine" and of course a whole lot of "a BS can't tank a lvl 4 mission".
Gregor Parud
Imperial Academy
#102 - 2015-01-31 08:05:16 UTC
J'Poll wrote:
It depends...


A. Are you already set for going the Gallente route? No it isn't.

B. Are you just want to try something else and see if you like it? Perhaps.

C. Do you like ot snipe and be at such a range that rats can't touch you? Yes it's worth it.


As with most stuff in EVE...it's a fine mixture of personal preference, personal taste and game mechanics.

p.s. there are plenty of non-gate missions where you don't have to collect stuff.

And even with gated missions, if you do some clever piloting, you can easily match your last MJD cycle to get you to the gate.



So what if C is not a consideration?
Leiliana Atruin
SPATULA-CITY
#103 - 2015-01-31 09:24:34 UTC
Gregor Parud wrote:
J'Poll wrote:
It depends...


A. Are you already set for going the Gallente route? No it isn't.

B. Are you just want to try something else and see if you like it? Perhaps.

C. Do you like ot snipe and be at such a range that rats can't touch you? Yes it's worth it.


As with most stuff in EVE...it's a fine mixture of personal preference, personal taste and game mechanics.

p.s. there are plenty of non-gate missions where you don't have to collect stuff.

And even with gated missions, if you do some clever piloting, you can easily match your last MJD cycle to get you to the gate.



So what if C is not a consideration?


Then the Rokh is clearly not the answer. Which is the point of such a 'decision tree'. What C means when I read it:

"Do you like to snipe and be at such a range that rats can't touch you?" If the answer is yes the Rokh can work for you. If the answer is no then you need to fly another ship.
Gregor Parud
Imperial Academy
#104 - 2015-01-31 09:37:21 UTC
Bingo.
ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#105 - 2015-01-31 09:45:54 UTC
Gregor Parud wrote:
Bingo.

You know I was joking earlier about that strategy of yours but I'm starting to think that is what you are actually doing. Either that or you are trolling.

Either way you win, I give. I can't keep correcting your strawman arguments and Orwelian logic. Your tenacity has proven to be greater than logic, truth or honesty.

Want to talk? Join Cara's channel in game: House Forelli
Gregor Parud
Imperial Academy
#106 - 2015-01-31 09:53:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Gregor Parud
Explain to me how this Hyperion, for instance, has trouble surviving missions and how a Rokh will complete missions faster. Fit is aimed at lower SP chars so it's not super optimised while adding a bit of "ease of use" (hence the CCC for instance, making it stable on everything but the repper/AB).

[Hyperion, 425 named]
Core C-Type Large Armor Repairer
Prototype Armor Thermic Hardener I
Prototype Armor Kinetic Hardener I
Prototype Armor Kinetic Hardener I
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II

Experimental 100MN Afterburner I
Large Micro Jump Drive
Optical Tracking Computer I, Optimal Range Script
Optical Tracking Computer I, Optimal Range Script
Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800

425mm Prototype Gauss Gun, Antimatter Charge L
425mm Prototype Gauss Gun, Antimatter Charge L
425mm Prototype Gauss Gun, Antimatter Charge L
425mm Prototype Gauss Gun, Antimatter Charge L
425mm Prototype Gauss Gun, Antimatter Charge L
425mm Prototype Gauss Gun, Antimatter Charge L
Small Tractor Beam I

Large Hybrid Metastasis Adjuster II
Large Hybrid Discharge Elutriation II
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I

Hobgoblin II x5
Caldari Navy Warden x5
J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#107 - 2015-01-31 11:02:07 UTC
Yep. Still waiting on a solid post of Gregor that isn't just:

Rokh is ****, cause NMega and Kronos do better DPS.

p.s. that is not an argument, and is also NOT a solid fact to why the Rokh is bad.

OP asked if Rokh is NOT a viable L4 mission ship....Which it is.

He never asked if it was the "most efficient" L4 ship..

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club
Gregor Parud
Imperial Academy
#108 - 2015-01-31 11:10:22 UTC
According to that logic a Drake is also fine and we should tell newbies to go use that.
Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#109 - 2015-01-31 11:13:27 UTC
i did level 4s in a drake :(


and myrm

and prophecy

stop hatin' T_T

Art of Explosions
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#110 - 2015-01-31 11:26:09 UTC
Gregor Parud wrote:
According to that logic a Drake is also fine and we should tell newbies to go use that.

if they asked "can i bring my drake" then yeah.

Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

=]|[=
Gregor Parud
Imperial Academy
#111 - 2015-01-31 11:35:25 UTC
Damnit, you exposed me! We weren't to talk about this incident.
J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#112 - 2015-01-31 11:54:27 UTC
Gregor Parud wrote:
According to that logic a Drake is also fine and we should tell newbies to go use that.


If they would ask if a Drake can do Level 4's...answer is: Yes, slowly.

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club
Gregor Parud
Imperial Academy
#113 - 2015-01-31 13:10:10 UTC
J'Poll wrote:
Gregor Parud wrote:
According to that logic a Drake is also fine and we should tell newbies to go use that.


If they would ask if a Drake can do Level 4's...answer is: Yes, slowly.


Would you tell them it's a good ship for lvl 4?
J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#114 - 2015-01-31 16:25:57 UTC  |  Edited by: J'Poll
Gregor Parud wrote:
J'Poll wrote:
Gregor Parud wrote:
According to that logic a Drake is also fine and we should tell newbies to go use that.


If they would ask if a Drake can do Level 4's...answer is: Yes, slowly.


Would you tell them it's a good ship for lvl 4?


Nope.

But that was never the question in here either

The only one here screaming "This ship is better" is YOU.


OP asked if Rokh is a ship that can do L4 missions: Yes it is.
OP never asked if Rokh is better then any for L4 missions.


But, I"m sure your other character is called Tippia, as you show the clear same signs "I"m always right, you are just wrong, I will keep posting till I win" stuff.

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club
Solonius Rex
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#115 - 2015-01-31 17:39:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Solonius Rex
Gregor Parud wrote:
Explain to me how this Hyperion, for instance, has trouble surviving missions and how a Rokh will complete missions faster. Fit is aimed at lower SP chars so it's not super optimised while adding a bit of "ease of use" (hence the CCC for instance, making it stable on everything but the repper/AB).

[Hyperion, 425 named]
Core C-Type Large Armor Repairer
Prototype Armor Thermic Hardener I
Prototype Armor Kinetic Hardener I
Prototype Armor Kinetic Hardener I
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II

Experimental 100MN Afterburner I
Large Micro Jump Drive
Optical Tracking Computer I, Optimal Range Script
Optical Tracking Computer I, Optimal Range Script
Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800

425mm Prototype Gauss Gun, Antimatter Charge L
425mm Prototype Gauss Gun, Antimatter Charge L
425mm Prototype Gauss Gun, Antimatter Charge L
425mm Prototype Gauss Gun, Antimatter Charge L
425mm Prototype Gauss Gun, Antimatter Charge L
425mm Prototype Gauss Gun, Antimatter Charge L
Small Tractor Beam I

Large Hybrid Metastasis Adjuster II
Large Hybrid Discharge Elutriation II
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I

Hobgoblin II x5
Caldari Navy Warden x5



Tried with a low skill test toon. Here are the results.

Your ship costs 395 million isk.

It has fitting issues unless the new player trains up Advanced weapons upgrades, which rarely any new player skills up.

Even 10 cap booster 800s take up half of the cargo space of the ship. Without it, cap only lasts a mere 3 minutes.

It does only 56 more damage than a sniping rokh that has 425mm prototype Gauss guns with the same ammo and 3 magnetic field stabilizer 2s, which would only cost around 240 million. Plus it has an extra 11km range with the same antimatter L ammo.

Wow. 56 extra damage, all for the low low cost of an additional 150 million isk. Completely worth it. Im sure you will be blitzing through L4s with such a huge damage difference.

Also, im stil not sure what the point of the Afterburner is. Most mission rats spawn around 20-25km away from you. What are you going to do to outrun the battleships, while being webbed by the frigates?
Gregor Parud
Imperial Academy
#116 - 2015-01-31 17:44:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Gregor Parud
- I TOO can lie about stats like cap by keeping all mods running all the time, like AB, MJD and tractor beams (p.s. it's not difficult to run non stable fits)
- that Rokh isn't using the same ammo because it needs to be at range, oops
- I like how you "forgot" the drones
- yes, no newbie who flies BS for lvl 4 has to train AWU to lvl 3.
Gregor Parud
Imperial Academy
#117 - 2015-01-31 17:48:01 UTC
J'Poll wrote:
But, I"m sure your other character is called Tippia, as you show the clear same signs "I"m always right, you are just wrong, I will keep posting till I win" stuff.


Oh come on, I'm not THAT annoying?
ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#118 - 2015-01-31 17:55:23 UTC
Gregor Parud wrote:
According to that logic a Drake is also fine and we should tell newbies to go use that.

before the tiericide I ran level 4s in a drake for a long long time before I could fly a BS. We had the learning skills back in those days so 6 months into this game I still could barely do anything but learn skills.

I think that you need to learn to quit while you're behind. You just keep digging yourself a deeper hole.

Want to talk? Join Cara's channel in game: House Forelli
Gregor Parud
Imperial Academy
#119 - 2015-01-31 18:02:40 UTC
ergherhdfgh wrote:
Gregor Parud wrote:
According to that logic a Drake is also fine and we should tell newbies to go use that.

before the tiericide I ran level 4s in a drake for a long long time before I could fly a BS. We had the learning skills back in those days so 6 months into this game I still could barely do anything but learn skills.

I think that you need to learn to quit while you're behind. You just keep digging yourself a deeper hole.


You would have been better off chaining lvl 3 than gnawing on lvl 4s in a Drake, also back then HML and the Drake itself were a lot better. So yeah, facts and all that.

I'm not "behind" at all, as if discussions are to be won, we simply disagree on reasons to fly or recommend stuff. If you haven't noticed it really is clown Rex who does the sperging, I just react to it.
ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#120 - 2015-01-31 18:13:24 UTC
Gregor Parud wrote:
J'Poll wrote:
Gregor Parud wrote:
According to that logic a Drake is also fine and we should tell newbies to go use that.


If they would ask if a Drake can do Level 4's...answer is: Yes, slowly.


Would you tell them it's a good ship for lvl 4?

If it's where they are at skills wise yes I would say that they can and should and for them at this point it's a good ship for them to run level 4's in.

You keep going back to this min / max thing and wanting to claim because you can find another ship that will do more dps on paper that some how everyone must stop flying Rokhs. You need to stop with this. This game is very complex. Players can have many goals and be at different places with thier skills. This is not WoW and you need to stop treating it like it is. You are misleading a lot of new players on this forum to think that this is like WoW where they just need to find the "best ship" and then bling it out with " Best in Slot" modules and then win Eve. That is just so not the case so please stop misleading them.

It has been pointed out here several times the various circumstances and situations where the Rokh could be an excellent choice for a specific player given his / her skill points, goals and playstyle. Please stop trying to convince everyone that you know eve better than everyone else and that somehow your subjective opinion is provable fact when is just is not.

Go back and reread this thread. You'll not see anyone suggesting that the Rokh is better than a Marauder for running level 4's. What you do see is several people point out how a newer player with low skill points might find the Rokh to be a good and quick path into level 4s and incursions.

Oh and towards the end you'll see yourself linking a fit with a cap booster on it and claiming that it is cap stable.

Want to talk? Join Cara's channel in game: House Forelli