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Battleship PVP Viability

Author
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#141 - 2015-01-30 23:49:17 UTC
Bullet Therapist wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
[quote=baltec1]
The most effective killing machine is the wreakingball/boot fleet. It is by far the slowest both in terms of warp speed and on grid but it will slaughter anything else in whatever numbers you wish to bring. You might see a lot of cruiser sized doctrines about right now but the battleship still forms to core of our subcap fleet in a war.


So what's happening in R-ZUOL isn't a war then? Because I didn't see many battleships there. Mostly harpies, bombers, tengus, eagles and ishtars. Also, the wrecking ball relies on the archon, which doesn't even need to have subcap support to be effective.

And for the record, this is what tracking and signature radius mean in a fleet context.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EJYQ7_w0oEs


No that is not a war. That is a deployment of the US TZ from goonfleet who are looking for "gud fights". It is not a CFC war deployment.
Bullet Therapist
FT Cold Corporation
#142 - 2015-01-30 23:51:21 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Bullet Therapist wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
[quote=baltec1]
The most effective killing machine is the wreakingball/boot fleet. It is by far the slowest both in terms of warp speed and on grid but it will slaughter anything else in whatever numbers you wish to bring. You might see a lot of cruiser sized doctrines about right now but the battleship still forms to core of our subcap fleet in a war.


So what's happening in R-ZUOL isn't a war then? Because I didn't see many battleships there. Mostly harpies, bombers, tengus, eagles and ishtars. Also, the wrecking ball relies on the archon, which doesn't even need to have subcap support to be effective.

And for the record, this is what tracking and signature radius mean in a fleet context.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EJYQ7_w0oEs


No that is not a war. That is a deployment of the US TZ from goonfleet who are looking for "gud fights". It is not a CFC war deployment.


Well spin it how you want, but CFC isn't using battleships to win fights.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#143 - 2015-01-30 23:57:38 UTC  |  Edited by: baltec1
Bullet Therapist wrote:


Well spin it how you want, but CFC isn't using battleships to win fights.


Why would we? Its a small deployment a long way from our supply lines so hauling a load of battleships out there is far more effort than it warrents. The only reason we took that system was because someone in FCON got the final shot in while the INIT. dreadnoughts were flipping the station.

We are literally grinding their space to the ground with 200 guys and accidentally taking space we don't want.
Richard Stallmanu Stallmania
Voidlings
V0IDLINGS
#144 - 2015-01-31 00:09:37 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Richard Stallmanu Stallmania wrote:

I'll ask once again, how many times has your brain been concussed to think that your mega fit puts out 1200 dps?


How about looking at the right fit? We are talking about my nano cruiser fit not my harpy fleet fit.


Roll Everyone just ignore the talking pile of rocks.
Richard Stallmanu Stallmania
Voidlings
V0IDLINGS
#145 - 2015-01-31 00:11:26 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Bullet Therapist wrote:


Well spin it how you want, but CFC isn't using battleships to win fights.


Why would we? Its a small deployment a long way from our supply lines so hauling a load of battleships out there is far more effort than it warrents. The only reason we took that system was because someone in FCON got the final shot in while the INIT. dreadnoughts were flipping the station.

We are literally grinding their space to the ground with 200 guys and accidentally taking space we don't want.

"We are farming POS mods for points/KB Efficiency"
Bullet Therapist
FT Cold Corporation
#146 - 2015-01-31 00:15:44 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Bullet Therapist wrote:


Well spin it how you want, but CFC isn't using battleships to win fights.


Why would we? Its a small deployment a long way from our supply lines so hauling a load of battleships out there is far more effort than it warrents. The only reason we took that system was because someone in FCON got the final shot in while the INIT. dreadnoughts were flipping the station.

We are literally grinding their space to the ground with 200 guys and accidentally taking space we don't want.


The point is that we use doctrines to win fights. A deployment isn't a trivial affair, even if it's something that designed to simply engender content, and players use the ships that win fights. It makes sense not to risk strategic assets like supercarriers to RF a random system, but the SRP and deployment headache to move battleships vs harpies or even ishtars isn't terrible as even a deployment to western curse is relatively easy to stage in to. It's not like the harpies and ishtars are coming from all the way up in dekein. A winning doctrine is a winning doctrine, and even if it's a hard one to move you'd never think twice about going through the trouble if it gives you a better chance.

Besides, good fights didn't stop the CFC from using them against BL, which never credibly threatened CFC sov in any way.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#147 - 2015-01-31 00:25:14 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
A vindi with 4 med blasters coupled with its bonused webs will shred frigates.

Considering it's close to a billion-ISK in hardware, I would hope so... But this also assumes you're not dealing with say a small force of Garmurs that can out-range and out-tackle said setup. I'm sure there are more than a few other frigates that would fit the criteria, but the Garmur stuck out foremost in my mind.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.

baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#148 - 2015-01-31 00:27:03 UTC
Bullet Therapist wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Bullet Therapist wrote:


Well spin it how you want, but CFC isn't using battleships to win fights.


Why would we? Its a small deployment a long way from our supply lines so hauling a load of battleships out there is far more effort than it warrents. The only reason we took that system was because someone in FCON got the final shot in while the INIT. dreadnoughts were flipping the station.

We are literally grinding their space to the ground with 200 guys and accidentally taking space we don't want.


The point is that we use doctrines to win fights. A deployment isn't a trivial affair, even if it's something that designed to simply engender content, and players use the ships that win fights. It makes sense not to risk strategic assets like supercarriers to RF a random system, but the SRP and deployment headache to move battleships vs harpies or even ishtars isn't terrible as even a deployment to western curse is relatively easy to stage in to. It's not like the harpies and ishtars are coming from all the way up in dekein. A winning doctrine is a winning doctrine, and even if it's a hard one to move you'd never think twice about going through the trouble if it gives you a better chance.

Besides, good fights didn't stop the CFC from using them against BL, which never credibly threatened CFC sov in any way.


The harpies did come from Dek.

This deployment is indeed a trivial affair. Its a holiday to us, much like IRC space was (we called it the game reserve). We aren't using Domi fleet because frankly, we don't need a sledgehammer. We want to get fights, not to grind them into dust.
Mina Sebiestar
Minmatar Inner Space Conglomerate
#149 - 2015-01-31 01:24:14 UTC
id give em smaller gun sigs to better land their dmg if that will do it

then

A
mobility lock speed increase to keep up w meta

B
tank DPS and advanced utility buffs to make em worth of battleship name



I am not sure following meta is right choice tho.

under adv utility ad develop modules for them area of effect modules like

distortion field generators = if enemy booster/s is not within field no boost are received to ships within field.

stasis web generator = cant be stacked 20% speed drop (like drone)

Warp drive inhibitor = warp drive charge(align) +100%(random figure) cant be stacked .

etc etc etc

You choke behind a smile a fake behind the fear

Because >>I is too hard

Kenrailae
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#150 - 2015-01-31 02:45:13 UTC
Richard Stallmanu Stallmania wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Richard Stallmanu Stallmania wrote:

I'll ask once again, how many times has your brain been concussed to think that your mega fit puts out 1200 dps?


How about looking at the right fit? We are talking about my nano cruiser fit not my harpy fleet fit.


Roll Everyone just ignore the talking pile of rocks.




As said before, Baltec is well known and widely respected for his use of megathron's in particular in all kinds of ways. Who are you exactly?


As also said before, it comes down to tools for the job: Use the ishtar if you don't want to fight, use the T3 if you need to survive long enough to reduce incoming DPS or need to hit smaller stuff, use a battleship if you have a big slow target that just needs tons of DPS, use faction battleships and caps if you want to break morale, etc, etc.

The largest 'problem' with battleships is, and has been for quite some time, the sentry drone problem and T3's:

CCP Ytterbium:

Tech3 ships need to be put down, like a rabid dog drooling everywhere in the house, they are out of line. It doesn't necessarily means nerfing them to oblivion and beyond, but making sure that each subsystem configuration has a use and they don't overlap on other ships by making them different in role and purpose.


https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1889852#post1889852


Only after those two issues are resolved can you really see what needs or doesn't need done with BS.

Yes, I'd like to see their price tag come back down a bit, yes, I'd like to see their HP buffed slightly, but their biggest problems are not their problems, but other ships that overlap way too aggressively into their role. Those ships need fixed.

The Law is a point of View

The NPE IS a big deal

Zan Shiro
Doomheim
#151 - 2015-01-31 03:40:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Zan Shiro
Kenrailae wrote:


Yes, I'd like to see their price tag come back down a bit, yes, I'd like to see their HP buffed slightly, but their biggest problems are not their problems, but other ships that overlap way too aggressively into their role. Those ships need fixed.



Stop it, you may cause an outbreak of reason here...and we can't have that.


Player ship ant tactics choices and shifted to certain ships because of buff or plain ole lemming effect as in the case of t3's a few recipes were found to be kick ass and t3 not touched in a while. Its gonna happen. Countering that with a counter buff is not always the solution....sometimes it becomes power creep. Now we have several "op" ships running around.

Now the pick on Baltec crap....guessing these people have never seen when Goons really really wants that space. I have. They will get to see lots of BS'. And people. I too have seen when 800 goons opt to spam local to give the node a workout. Some of them even put up really good ascii pics or local chat that rates a genuine damn this guy is pretty damn good at trash talk.

The desire to roam in BS I never got either. A) its not what they were meant for. B) ever before the nerfs they had....they sucked at it imo C) no one said these have to be eve's end game like ships...

Some like me went I got my basic fleet BS, now lets go back to the ships that I liked flying the most. Just we got lucky here...ccp has been buffing the crap out of sub BS of late. Or players have found recipes to spice this up a lot.
elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
#152 - 2015-01-31 04:45:02 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
The bare hull costs the same as a fully fitted megathron and it is not a t1 cruiser.

Ill ask again, show me a t1 cruiser that can pump out 1200 dps and sports a 65k tank


Gila

Eve Minions is recruiting.

This is the law of ship progression!

Aura sound-clips: Aura forever

baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#153 - 2015-01-31 05:06:06 UTC  |  Edited by: baltec1
elitatwo wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
The bare hull costs the same as a fully fitted megathron and it is not a t1 cruiser.

Ill ask again, show me a t1 cruiser that can pump out 1200 dps and sports a 65k tank


Gila


Also a pirate ship andyou are not getting those numbers out of it. Its a fantastic ship but its not that wildly overpowered.