EVE General Discussion

So you're saying that you didn't know what EVE was (launched in 2003, EVE is a pvp sandbox set in space.....) when you chose to play it, then tried and failed to get them to change it to meet your preferences and are now bitter about it....while continuing to fund CCP as evidenced by your posting privileges.

Sorry if this is harsh, but Indahmawar Fazmarai's problem has never been EVE or CCP, it has always been Indahmawar Fazmarai.

How come when you say this you seem to notice the "PvP" part but ignore the "sandbox" part. Note that in EVE, PvP is not just shooting other players, there's a lot more to the game than that. Competing with other players over the market is a form of PvP, clearing out belts before another player is PvP, beating people to exploration sites is PvP. Using "but the game is PvP" is not an excuse for badly designed mechanics. If they weren't a part of the game, they wouldn't exist.

'Non-shipsploding' content really is quite neglected by CCP and should really be looked at. It seems mad to me that some content has been revised multiple times over, while other content is still as terribly designed as it was when I joined in 2005.

Actually, he referred to a trend of focusing on shipsploding-only content, to which you responded with a condescending post suggesting he didn't notice EVE was described as "PvP". It's difficult to see how that is not suggesting that PvP is solely based on ships blowing up.

Sure, there have been some improvements, but there's far more improvements to other systems than to the core PvE mechanics. While the backstory and number of rats in missions have changed, they are no real different to when I joined. Mining is the exact same mechanics in different ships. Yes, they've added hybrid PVE-PlayerComabat content like wormholes and incursions, but the core PvE mechanics are pretty neglected, which is why the NPE sucks. Players find it pretty hard to come into the game and leap straight into the more advanced forms of PvE without getting thoroughly vapourised by veterans, and the "easy" PvE is insanely dull.

No, my "problem" is that I believe the focus of CCPs long term goals are shifted too heavily in favour of forcing interaction by dumping people together in situations when there are going to fight to play any meaningful content, rather than encouraging people to choose to move onto more rewarding content. If core PvE content was less rewarding but more involved and gave a taste of what the rest of the game is like it would be more attractive to newer players aiding retention and easier for people to transition to newer things when seeking higher rewards. That's not going to happen following the current path.

Refund 95% of the war fee for wars in which no activity takes place. Problem would be solved.

Of course, it will never happen.

You could have just said "think of the children" and saved yourself some typing.

What you don't get is how people really are. PVE p[layers tend to not be pvp players, and PVE players tend to be comfort seekers. changing the way PVE content works does zilch to modify behavior, because it's not the game causing behavior, its the interaction between the players own self (personality, preferences, notions, expectations) and the environment.

That's why incursions are the way they are (easily farmed content where a whole fleet is on voice comms but on average only 5-6 people ever speak), why stuffing low sec with PVE rewards hasn't resulted in a larger low sec population, why this change failed miserably and even more that it would take all day to describe.

To it's credit, CCP learned when they moved away from those costly pve themepark based jesus features and more towards actual interaction. It's been a smashing success, pvp is the core of the game even for those of us who don't actively participate in combat pvp. Smart PVErs know this, short-sighted ones don't and think changing the way that damn Damsel is saved is going to make a difference.

• A cooperative 5-man mining fleet warping into a belt and targetting specifically that one precious veld roid the poor nublet in his Venture is also shooting - that's pvp.
• A cooperative incursion fleet popping motherships all week long because "hey - why not?" and thereby pissing off every other incursion runner - that's pvp.
• A cooperative mission runner fleet farming missions for a weekend and then dumping all their LP on the market for next to no profit - that's pvp.
• A cooperative indy cabal producing item X and then dumping it for a loss in some regional market until dat utha dood says "Screw it, I'm back to Jita" - that's pvp.

EVE is a pvp game. Everything else is rubbish.

As far as I know, the intentions was to get people to move out of NPC corps into player corps to encourage players to play together. Whether or not they are wardeccable does not factor into that. I think it will be pretty tough to encourage players to optionally make themselves targets of the mass wardec farm corps, and I don't believe that "forcing" players to be targets was something CCP were considering.

That may be what you comprehend but it certainly isn't what I typed. I'd appreciate it if you didn't attempt to troll in this way. Thanks.

Of course PvE players tend to not be PvP (assuming by this you mean PvP combat) players, that doesn't mean they don't deserve improvements to their style of play. Only when CCP decide that PvE is being scrapped will they ever become irrelevant.

Incusrions are the way they are because players have minmaxed them to hell, learned every possible variant and can now just rinse repeat. If the content never changes, that won't change. Forcing players into being at more risk won't suddenly make the content better.

CCP haven;t moved away from those features, they simply haven't been the focus. At the end of the day, more interaction is good, but that interaction doesn't have to mean "Player A shoots player B". Most PvE players have no problem being pushed to interact with others, what they have a problem with is that so many people want to basically be given easy kills by making every single PvE player at ever increasing risk.

Improve PvE, balance risk and reward, and players who are willing to risk more to gain more will put themselves at risk while others will accept a reduced payout for more safety. Repeatedly screaming at the group who don't want to be fodder to combat pilots doesn't improve the game, it just shrinks it. It's possible for multiple styles of play to co-exist you know.

While that's true, the context in which the quote from Jenn was written implies that PvP = Combat, which is certainly not true. Because other games tend to mean "combat" when they say PvP, people on both sides of the argument get the wrong idea quite often. I think that's why CCPs more recent material less frequently refers to it as PvP, as interaction in EVE as you rightly point out comes in considerably more forms than what most people understand PvP to mean.

Lordy lord. EVE isn't a "pvp sandbox". It's a "sandbox". Why you feel the need to qualify it -
to legitimize your own activity?
Should that be the case, consciously or subconsciously, in the same breath you illegitimize other's activities.
SEE? No?

Thot not.