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Fix for Ishtars online
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Iain Cariaba
#61 - 2015-01-29 21:45:32 UTC
Biron Soringard wrote:
Its not just 0.0 where Ishtars are a poblem. Lowsec is just as bad about Ishtars Online. They're not fun to fly, they're not fun to fight. They're an "I win" button, and that's the only reason people fly them.

And if CCP were to nerf them into oblivion, like they did the Drake, then something else would become an "I Win" button and you would then be here whining about that ship.

Simple fact: Unless CCP makes every single possible combination of ships and modules the same, there will always be OP ships, and no amount of whining will change this fact.
Pravius
The Bleak Lands Syndicate
#62 - 2015-01-29 23:31:44 UTC
Tabyll Altol wrote:
Pravius wrote:
ishtars are a tad op... every 0.0 group uses them for obvious reasons......

limit sentry drones to battlecruiser and above...


seems like a good idea.


Not the are not, there are counters to ishtars. Go and find them.

-1


-1 for being so helpfull


the simple fact is isthars are broke.... they are solo pwn mobile for pve and in mass for pvp they can put up silly dps from sniper range with cruiser sig speed... so they can move across vast swaths of space and apply BATTLESHIP dps..

and yes i agree sentry drones are the problem. but much like the curse showed everyone what was wrong with nos the ishtar has brought to light the glaring flaw of allowing a cruiser sized hull bring that much dps to the field with such SMALL risk.

the argument that just find a counter and STFU is an old tired line for those that do not want to see there FOTM ship brought back into line.

when a ship becomes the go to ship for pvp pve pos bashing killing supercaps and prettymuch anything else you can think of its time to start looking at why and what broke it.
Nolak Ataru
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#63 - 2015-01-30 00:47:56 UTC
No, most of the "find a counter and stfu" is from people who have seen people complain about every ship in the game, and are tired of it. Off the top of my head, one easy way to mess with a Ishtar fleet is to fit a bunch of 425s to something, hyperspatial rig and add warp speed lowslots, and warp them in such a way that there's zero transversal between them and the Ishtar fleet. Then you just headshot the anchor and the FCs, and you continue to do that.
HiddenPorpoise
Jarlhettur's Drop
United Federation of Conifers
#64 - 2015-01-30 00:59:12 UTC
Ishtars are considered op for the same reason drakes were: null fights are just gathering up in a ball and shooting at the other guy until someone leaves. The ishtar is the second best ship for doing that next to the domi and the domi is slower.

I say stratify drones; use superheavy/heavy sentries drones in more places, lower current drone dps, and give more bandwidth to battleships.
Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
#65 - 2015-01-30 04:21:38 UTC
Nolak Ataru wrote:
No, most of the "find a counter and stfu" is from people who have seen people complain about every ship in the game, and are tired of it. Off the top of my head, one easy way to mess with a Ishtar fleet is to fit a bunch of 425s to something, hyperspatial rig and add warp speed lowslots, and warp them in such a way that there's zero transversal between them and the Ishtar fleet. Then you just headshot the anchor and the FCs, and you continue to do that.

Thinking outside the box again I see, perhaps that is why you and your mates do not have trouble with the Ishtar.
Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
#66 - 2015-01-30 04:23:18 UTC
Biron Soringard wrote:
Its not just 0.0 where Ishtars are a poblem. Lowsec is just as bad about Ishtars Online. They're not fun to fly, they're not fun to fight. They're an "I win" button, and that's the only reason people fly them.

I beg to differ with you on this. After they nerfed the utility out of the rattlesnake the Ishtar has become one of my favorite ships.
I guess it is all in what you expect.
Phaade
LowKey Ops
Snuffed Out
#67 - 2015-01-30 05:05:59 UTC
Anhenka wrote:
Pravius wrote:
ishtars are a tad op... every 0.0 group uses them for obvious reasons......

limit sentry drones to battlecruiser and above...


seems like a good idea.

Any suggestions so that Ishtars, VNI's, and ordinary Vexors are not completely and totally **** afterwords?

Or are you one of the "gut them into uselessness and let CCP never sort them out." crowd?

-1 for a bare sketch of an idea, -1 for not searching to find the other 999 Ishtar threads, -1 for the "make them totally useless" suggestion.

And -10 for laziness.


-100 for idiocy.

Use your brain, child.

Ishtars have been overpowered for literally years.

Them being balanced, or even gutted into uselessness, would not ruin this game. Eve would, in fact, go on.

Try again.
Pravius
The Bleak Lands Syndicate
#68 - 2015-01-30 05:11:45 UTC
Donnachadh wrote:
Biron Soringard wrote:
Its not just 0.0 where Ishtars are a poblem. Lowsec is just as bad about Ishtars Online. They're not fun to fly, they're not fun to fight. They're an "I win" button, and that's the only reason people fly them.

I beg to differ with you on this. After they nerfed the utility out of the rattlesnake the Ishtar has become one of my favorite ships.
I guess it is all in what you expect.


i think you missed his point.... ishtars are easy mode hence no fun to fly. deploy drones orbit at silly range with mwd pick up drones after fight.

and to the idea of everyone fit 425 and place your fleet at the exact perfect place that you might get exaclty a few volleys off at the right moment to hit a few... come on guy get real the second they see you align in their path they just change directions that only works if the ishtar fc is ******** and they done have multiple anchors setup.

so coming up with a perfect scenario that might actualy work to kill a few is not counter.

is ok to admit you love the ishtar because you enjoy feeling uber l33t flying your awsome cruiser. but dont fool yourself into thinking its a well balanced ship
Altirius Saldiaro
Doomheim
#69 - 2015-01-30 05:37:47 UTC
Pravius wrote:
ishtars are a tad op... every 0.0 group uses them for obvious reasons......

limit sentry drones to battlecruiser and above...


seems like a good idea.


I would rather CCP make ewar hitting a ship affect the drones it has deployed. That way, its not a dumb nerf to one ship, its giving players an in game counter to use.
Phaade
LowKey Ops
Snuffed Out
#70 - 2015-01-30 06:14:32 UTC
Altirius Saldiaro wrote:
Pravius wrote:
ishtars are a tad op... every 0.0 group uses them for obvious reasons......

limit sentry drones to battlecruiser and above...


seems like a good idea.


I would rather CCP make ewar hitting a ship affect the drones it has deployed. That way, its not a dumb nerf to one ship, its giving players an in game counter to use.


Do not attempt logic, CCP will not take kindly to it.
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#71 - 2015-01-30 06:22:56 UTC  |  Edited by: BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie
Honestly I'ld like them to get their tracking back and have all 125mb bandwidth cruisers dropped to 100. It makes perfect sense for a cruiser sized hull to have superior tracking to larger platforms, but being able to fit a full flight of large drones/sentries is just insane. Even with the DPS drop they would still be a very strong cruiser.

Either that, or drop all cruisers down to 50mb bandwidth and give them an additional size specific bonus to medium drones. We've already seen that this works on the Gila. It could be made to work on other cruisers too.

Founder of Violet Squadron, a small gang NPSI community! Mail me for more information.

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Aplysia Vejun
Children of Agasul
#72 - 2015-01-30 07:08:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Aplysia Vejun
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie wrote:

Either that, or drop all cruisers down to 50mb bandwidth and give them an additional size specific bonus to medium drones. We've already seen that this works on the Gila. It could be made to work on other cruisers too.

Change the ushtar to be like a Gila? So: 100-200 MORE dps, and faster, better hitting drones(medium? And in the sMe time more tank and a bit more speed for the ship? Nice, I'm in.


A counter to solo or small groups of Ishtars: fly to them. Nearly every ship is much faster. And speaking about dmg: outtank it if its a solo ishtar. Just yesterday I've seen a confessor tank my 600 dps just fine for 5mins. (In brawling range, with a scram and a web onhim while i was using Geckos).
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#73 - 2015-01-30 11:59:58 UTC
Aplysia Vejun wrote:
A counter to solo or small groups of Ishtars: fly to them. Nearly every ship is much faster.


Except a typical ishtar can do...what, 2400 before links. Plenty fast enough to take time to catch. Oh and while you're chasing them, you've got 600+ DPS to the face as you're pulled into drone optimal at minimal transversal.

Oh and the ishtar, having the old cap for when it had gun bonuses, can run its hardeners/MWD for longer than (virtually? I'm pretty sure it's all the shield ones) any other HAC due to having no guns any more but the cap of a ship designed to fire guns.

And even if you DO catch them, you're going to get neuts to the face because....what the hell else are you putting in high slots because you have DLAs baked into the hull.


That ship has ZERO fitting compromises. NONE.
Aplysia Vejun
Children of Agasul
#74 - 2015-01-30 12:22:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Aplysia Vejun
Ah 2400m/s without links etc. Those ships are easily caught by those 6000m/s navy omen in their usual pvp fit. Everything ofc without overheating or links. And the capacitor is big enough to cycle mwd indefinitely AND use energy neut at the same time. Noone needs cap rechargers. See? I can pull out stupid numbers too. Doesnt make it true
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#75 - 2015-01-30 12:37:44 UTC
Except a typical ishtar fit is typical. That NOmen will be smoked by sentries before it does any real damage. Or do you think you're going to chew through the 45k EHP before the sentries wreck you up and down?

Wow, genius. No-one has ever thought of bum rushing the ishtar blob. Problem solved we can all go home.

See the difference is, I've flown with and against properly fit and piloted ishtars extremely frequently. Apparently, you've not, because if you had you'd not be suggesting this nonsense.
Aplysia Vejun
Children of Agasul
#76 - 2015-01-30 12:46:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Aplysia Vejun
If its 100vs100: quite some Nomen will be killed. 20vs20: 3-5 dead omen until catching. 1 vs 1: omen players wins easily.
2400m/s? Sure, with links and overheating( but then you have less dmg)

The only problem is in BIG groups. Everything else is ok.
Morrigan LeSante
Perkone
Caldari State
#77 - 2015-01-30 13:07:12 UTC
Omens indeed. Do you think the sentries magically stop firing when the omens catch them?

Hell after about 20 ishtars they'll start volleying 40-50k EHP boats off field before they can even catch reps. You'll start two volleying even AHACs. That's not a big group.

To be honest it is quite clear you've not been fighting against a proper ishtar formation. I'm sorry, I mean no disrespect by this, but until you've seen the disgusting power of these things at zero fitting trade off first hand you won't believe it. And I fly ishtars a lot.
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
#78 - 2015-01-30 13:37:17 UTC
Aplysia Vejun wrote:
If its 100vs100: quite some Nomen will be killed. 20vs20: 3-5 dead omen until catching. 1 vs 1: omen players wins easily.
2400m/s? Sure, with links and overheating( but then you have less dmg)

The only problem is in BIG groups. Everything else is ok.



It's NOT an only in big groups problem. Everything else isn't ok.
Janeway84
Insane's Asylum
#79 - 2015-01-30 14:17:10 UTC
nerf everything! Big smile
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#80 - 2015-01-30 14:18:03 UTC
Janeway84 wrote:
nerf everything! Big smile


Except me because I'm special. I know I am because my parents always told me so.