Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Where to begin? Lets start with math.



Apparently it is if you can't understand the difference between six and eight. So what is a faster align time? Six or eight seconds? The only rubbish here is your ad hominem attack against my credibility as a battleship pilot, which is at worst unverifiable, and a pretty sad refutation. I've been a battleship enthusiast for some time now; but don't worry, you don't have to take word for it, but you do have to put your alignment time lie on the shelf.



No, they don't, but you tout your arguments as if the only thing a player has to do to make battleships compete is sacrifice a few modules for mobility. It's just a talking point for you that conceals the truth that a player looking to tag along in a megathron to a cruiser fleet without impairing the cruiser gang's warp speed needs to invest in an implant set. It doesn't sound so striking or stark when you wave the pricetag of the implants in players faces. So say what you mean next time, like three slots and six (very expensive) implants, instead of three slots, ok?

Also, for the record, I've not said that sacrificing slots for mobility is gimping the fit, I've only pointed out the half truth you're telling.



The locking speed formula (more math ) is locktime = 40000/(scanres * asinh(sigrad)^2). Even with ideal target calling, the cycle time of your weapons, fluid nature of fleet fights against small ships, and the tendancy of FCs to order orbit distances are still going to prevent you from applying substantial DPS. Your megathron isn't going to be able to react fast enough to a target's range of potential orbits to establish a transversal course before it becomes un-ideal. Reacting to immediate threats like dictor warpins is less possible, and with poor target calling you're left ineffectual.

I don't know for sure if baltec1 is your only pvp toon, but if his track record is exemplary, I would say that the string of zeros I see under the category of 'damage done' speaks for itself of this front. Digging through the KBs a little more, it's easy to see how few cases you actually get a shot off in. Yeah, you get a big hit here and there, but for the most part you don't, so stop the BS.

Again, you don't know anything about my relationship with battleships, other than I care about them. I certainly understand what kind of problems a battleship is likely to face on grid, so it stands to reason that I'd also be able to find a way to circumvent them. My reactions and refutations to your posts are in part derived from my own experiences in battleships, despite your repeated drumbeat that I or others have 'zero experience.'

Lastly,



Whelp, take a look at the above. You're visionary and everyone else is stupid is the gist of it. They're two contradictory statements that came from the same fingertips. So which is it? That you're a visionary and no-one else is or that you never said that?

The truth, baltec, is that there are plenty of intelligent, capable, and innovative players involved in this game, and no matter what you think of me, if there's a good way to utilize an existing ship class, once the secret gets out, everyone will soon know about it. Take a look at the beam navy slicers that have been flying around the last few days. Word spreads, this time via TMC and EN24, and people take notice. You've been standing on your soap box for a long time now and I haven't seen people lining up to follow your advice. So where are the battleship support groups in cruiser and frigate gangs and why is it that you're the only one making claims about megathron superiority in your cruiser fleets?

Could it be that the friends that you play with like having a megathron as a hood ornament? Maybe, it's fun to have a little flair once and a while. Virtually every bash or fun fleet I've been a part of over the last three years has been bolstered by a morale drake, even if it's not the smartest choice. Are you a good enough player that you pay attention and execute fleet commands quickly enough to not at least have a negative impact on your fleets? Sure, it's possible. If you're not really hurting the fleets that you're a part of or causing trouble for them, no-one reasonable is going to care if it makes people happy.

First, I agree that rebalancing T3 and Sentries will help a lot BS (and BC to a point) viability in most fields.

I am also of teh school that think BS and BC are sadly under used since the nerfs combined with everything else's buff. I am following these threads, even if not participating much. And YES, I used to fly BCs and BSs not that long ago, almost never now.

Now about Baltech1.

Baltech1 is, I believe, an intelligent person, and I believe he can manage some counter-intuitive stuff with his pet Megas, albeit with very expansive implants and/or mods and possibly some fitting sacrifices to make it work. Fine. However if you need 6 extremely expensive implants to make a BS worth it's salt, something is obviously wrong.

Maybe if you would step down your Pedestal of Patronizing Smug and stop calling everyone else bad an unimaginative, people would actually listen to what you say. Antagonizing 'everyone' by your atitude is just making 'everyone' ignore your opinion.

But if you are merely a troll, you will ignore this, and be even less relevant.

My 2 cents.

Feel free to ask any CFC FC about what happens when I fly a mega in a harpy fleet and we start burning.





Context. You said in order to warp and align fast enough to keep up with the ship cannot do anything else, this is not true and the ship only uses one rig slot and 1-2 lows.




What you just described isn't what happens in these fleets.




I base it on the fact that in your posting you show a lack of in game knolage and you base your entire argument on what EFT tells you.




Now think of what a battleship that isnt custom built for a cap stable, perma AB, highly mobile frigate fleet can do. I stand by my words, anyone can do what I do. You however cannot because you have decided that you cannot.

Lets use an example, the Golem. I know for a fact that it is downright deadly yet I know of only one maby two pilots who use it often. You therory that if nobody uses them it must mean they suck simply is not true.

I will just point out that you have no idea why she was fit like that and you have no idea how she died.

This fit (now outdated) is my Harpy fleet fit and is fitted in order to match said fleet. The requirements are cap stable with the MWD running, fast enough to keep up with alignments, 3au warp speed and 80km range. She died due to me not broadcasting for reps (welp) and has a track record of 285 days active service. In the last two years we have not faced any real threat so most of the engagements were over uncontested towers.

I have spent 5 years running BS and mostly only BS in fleets they had no right in being in. KB tell you a ship died, they tell you nothing of what is happening in a fight or what has happened over the years which is why we dont care about them. In fleet I am infact that guy who keeps the moral high and helps wherever I can when asked. I just call out bullshit on the forums when I see it.

Now, are there other battleships that can do better in a harpy fleet? Yes. But I choose to use the megathron because for me it is fun to push my favorate ship into doing new and outlandish things. Do I care what my KB looks like when they eventually die? Clearly not. Perhaps if people spent more time having fun with new fits rather than stressing over what their KB looks like they would have more success.

If that was his only PvP toon, he hasn't shot anyone since december. Imma be he has alts.

Enough that he was always on this toons watchlist, even if he wasn logi or leadership. Keeping the odd man in the fleet alive is a challenge, almost as much as keeping the FC and boosters alive, and it IS a morale boost. First time I saw him in alpha fleet we were told "Don't say anything, he's more likely to survive than you are" and the FC was right.

Have you seen this thread? It's like 50% Baltec1 arguing that because his Battleship is able to have similar stats to a Cruiser that they are fine and balanced.

Cool story, then why should I fly a battleship just to intentionally gimp every minor advantage it affords?

Vexor Navy Issue out performs that Apoc.
Faster, same DPS to better ranges, same buffer, half the sig, half the cost, only thing it loses is 40 sensor strength. Which really doesnt matter all that much.

As a lowsec dweller, battleships are fine in this area. Sure, they're overshadowed a lot by Tech 3's and Ishtars, but I still see them on a regular basis. They're not exactly good for roaming about in all the time, but for ops where the field need be held, they're still solid.

As for Tech 3's and Ishtars... yeah. Ishtars need to lose sentry drones, and Tech 3's need to not be sig-tanking battleships. The Proteus in lowsec meta is OP as hell. 170k EHP no links no slaves, 20k optimal and falloff around 50k plus 620 DPS with CNAM, a 50mbit drone bay for even more damage or ECM drones, a utility mid, and a long point that goes out to 40+ if you use faction with no links. Beam Legions can blap through logi with ease, and get 2-ish utility mids, depending on fitting. I think the Loki is the most well balanced of all of them, actually. Its a bit lackluster on applied DPS, but that's mainly projectiles. Arty web Lokis are a possibility, but I've not tinkered with one since the medium long-range weapon tweaks to see if they're better or worse than previous setups.

I won't talk about Ishtars. Their issues are pretty much universal between low/null from my perspective.Eitherway I think that if Tech 3's and Ishtars were brought into line, Battleships would be a much more powerful alternative. They'd still need web ships to help them apply their damage, or target painters in some situations. But, I think that most fleets should need some form of support ships other than Logistics to help them reach their full potential.

I also think that the T2 resist profile is a big reason for why HACS and Tech 3's are chosen over battleships in small gang situations, where attrition and alpha aren't as much of an issue, and holding reps is a much more important factor.

At this point it's so feeble that you're just disagreeing do disagree and you don't have anything new to add.. Your statements are debunked and your lies have been exposed and are free here for anyone else to read and I'm not going to just bash your for the sake of making you look stupid. Like I said before I'm sorry to pick on you or anyone else here because I hate the idea of hurting anyone else's feelings; so I'm sorry if anything I've said made you or anyone else get hot over the issue.

I do agree with you that t3s desperately need to be brought in line, that ishtars might be too versatile, and that if bombs were tweaked that the health of the battleship class as a whole would improve. Given CCPs track record with t3 destroyers and ishtars though, and their reluctance to nerf bombers in a meaningful way, I'm not holding my breath on the chance that t3 cruisers are going to get nerfed too hard. Even then, members of the pirate cruiser and HAC line still strongly overlap with the battleship class, while having few of the disadvantages.

T1 battleships will probably remain in their third chair status for a while longer, but that isn't to say (and I've never said) that they're a useless class. They're just less useful than they should be for the drawbacks that their use can incur, and the cost of mitigating those drawbacks to a tolerable degree is too high. Some battleships are quite good. I adore the pirate line, and frequently abuse two of them, and I'm happy with the performance of three of the faction battleships.