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Fix for Ishtars online
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Pravius
The Bleak Lands Syndicate
#1 - 2015-01-28 17:33:34 UTC
ishtars are a tad op... every 0.0 group uses them for obvious reasons......

limit sentry drones to battlecruiser and above...


seems like a good idea.
Anhenka
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#2 - 2015-01-28 18:04:06 UTC
Pravius wrote:
ishtars are a tad op... every 0.0 group uses them for obvious reasons......

limit sentry drones to battlecruiser and above...


seems like a good idea.

Any suggestions so that Ishtars, VNI's, and ordinary Vexors are not completely and totally **** afterwords?

Or are you one of the "gut them into uselessness and let CCP never sort them out." crowd?

-1 for a bare sketch of an idea, -1 for not searching to find the other 999 Ishtar threads, -1 for the "make them totally useless" suggestion.

And -10 for laziness.
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
#3 - 2015-01-28 18:09:22 UTC
I like his idea and think it's the right thing to do.

+1 for nerfing the ishtar back to normal.
+1 for making the risk averse 'dump and run' crowd all upset
+1 for keeping the faith
Tusker Crazinski
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#4 - 2015-01-28 18:20:33 UTC
going for all crusier sized drone boats, dropping the bandwidth to 50 or 75mbit/s would be an easy fix.

Is it doing spectacular sniper DPS, no. however unlike other sniper HACs it still has all the benefits to being a drone boat. like not needing to fit you're primary weapon system, and pick the right tool for the job.

that or make a drone maintenance bay a fittiable mod require to rep, recharge, and have multiple flight of drones.
Nolak Ataru
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#5 - 2015-01-28 18:21:59 UTC
Anhenka wrote:
Pravius wrote:
ishtars are a tad op... every 0.0 group uses them for obvious reasons......
limit sentry drones to battlecruiser and above...
seems like a good idea.

Any suggestions so that Ishtars, VNI's, and ordinary Vexors are not completely and totally **** afterwords?
Or are you one of the "gut them into uselessness and let CCP never sort them out." crowd?
-1 for a bare sketch of an idea, -1 for not searching to find the other 999 Ishtar threads, -1 for the "make them totally useless" suggestion.
And -10 for laziness.


He's from TVC. Don't expect much from him in terms of long-term thinking.
CCP already listened to people when they added the limit of drones being assisted. It's now up to you to get a doctrine that isn't "drop titans" to counter the Ishtars.
Oversized ABs are there for a reason (hinthint dictors).
Iain Cariaba
#6 - 2015-01-28 18:46:17 UTC
So, when you've successfully nerfed Ishtars into oblivion, are you going to then beg for nerfs to whatever takes its place as the OP hull of choice? And when that hull goes the way of the drake, are you going to protest the next FOTM hull? When does it stop?

I would really like an honest answer to these questions from OP.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#7 - 2015-01-28 19:47:53 UTC
just make it so their bonuses only affect med drones i had thought that was the idea when they re-arranged the skills in order to make that possible

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Anhenka
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#8 - 2015-01-28 19:56:51 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
just make it so their bonuses only affect med drones i had thought that was the idea when they re-arranged the skills in order to make that possible


Considering they never said anything of the sort, why did you think this?

And does anyone think a medium drone only Ishtar would be worth anything?

Would be like the gila, only squishier, and less useful, and less tanky.
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2015-01-28 20:04:47 UTC
Iain Cariaba wrote:
So, when you've successfully nerfed Ishtars into oblivion, are you going to then beg for nerfs to whatever takes its place as the OP hull of choice? And when that hull goes the way of the drake, are you going to protest the next FOTM hull? When does it stop?

I would really like an honest answer to these questions from OP.


That would probably be the gila as the people who hate the ishtar seem to have an issue with drones in general :D
Anhenka
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#10 - 2015-01-28 20:15:01 UTC
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:
Iain Cariaba wrote:
So, when you've successfully nerfed Ishtars into oblivion, are you going to then beg for nerfs to whatever takes its place as the OP hull of choice? And when that hull goes the way of the drake, are you going to protest the next FOTM hull? When does it stop?

I would really like an honest answer to these questions from OP.


That would probably be the gila as the people who hate the ishtar seem to have an issue with drones in general :D


Impossible, Gila is so bad for most things you might as well take offense at the hurricane. Rattlesnake and Domi though will e the next choice of permawhine.
Dustpuppy
New Eden Ferengi
#11 - 2015-01-28 20:19:25 UTC
Easy solution to counter a fleet of ishtars: use them, too. These are not titans, everyone can afford one. So do some training and join the rest.


Twisted
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#12 - 2015-01-28 20:23:35 UTC
Delete Sentries.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#13 - 2015-01-28 20:38:53 UTC
Dustpuppy wrote:
Easy solution to counter a fleet of ishtars: use them, too. These are not titans, everyone can afford one. So do some training and join the rest.


Twisted


You know something is stupid when the counter to it is itself...
Iain Cariaba
#14 - 2015-01-28 21:56:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Iain Cariaba
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:
Iain Cariaba wrote:
So, when you've successfully nerfed Ishtars into oblivion, are you going to then beg for nerfs to whatever takes its place as the OP hull of choice? And when that hull goes the way of the drake, are you going to protest the next FOTM hull? When does it stop?

I would really like an honest answer to these questions from OP.


That would probably be the gila as the people who hate the ishtar seem to have an issue with drones in general :D

That was less a question on which ship is going to be next, and more of a question on when OP and his ilk are going to be done whining about ships they think are OP.

As for the Gila, while it is pretty strong, it does have one glaring weakness. An arthritic tortoise tied to #50 boulder is able to outrun it.
Pravius
The Bleak Lands Syndicate
#15 - 2015-01-28 22:57:40 UTC
Anhenka wrote:
Pravius wrote:
ishtars are a tad op... every 0.0 group uses them for obvious reasons......

limit sentry drones to battlecruiser and above...


seems like a good idea.

Any suggestions so that Ishtars, VNI's, and ordinary Vexors are not completely and totally **** afterwords?

Or are you one of the "gut them into uselessness and let CCP never sort them out." crowd?

-1 for a bare sketch of an idea, -1 for not searching to find the other 999 Ishtar threads, -1 for the "make them totally useless" suggestion.

And -10 for laziness.



you get similar if not more dps out of ogre 2s that you get out of sentrys you just cant fight out of range of everything and nano....

thats why i suggest limiting using sentrys to bc or above leaving the ability to use heavy drones.... but i understand you dont want your flavor of the month fit getting nerfed..

Pravius
The Bleak Lands Syndicate
#16 - 2015-01-28 23:03:12 UTC
Nolak Ataru wrote:
Anhenka wrote:
Pravius wrote:
ishtars are a tad op... every 0.0 group uses them for obvious reasons......
limit sentry drones to battlecruiser and above...
seems like a good idea.

Any suggestions so that Ishtars, VNI's, and ordinary Vexors are not completely and totally **** afterwords?
Or are you one of the "gut them into uselessness and let CCP never sort them out." crowd?
-1 for a bare sketch of an idea, -1 for not searching to find the other 999 Ishtar threads, -1 for the "make them totally useless" suggestion.
And -10 for laziness.


He's from TVC. Don't expect much from him in terms of long-term thinking.
CCP already listened to people when they added the limit of drones being assisted. It's now up to you to get a doctrine that isn't "drop titans" to counter the Ishtars.
Oversized ABs are there for a reason (hinthint dictors).



cause i have been in this alliance all of 2 months of my total 10+ years playing eve so that must be all i know........

well assisting drones was never an issue with this since you never have been able to assist sentry drones and this is only talking about removing the ability for cruiser size hulls to use them.. not even talking about lowing drone bay or bandwith.. so heavy drones are still an option..
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#17 - 2015-01-28 23:07:37 UTC
Pravius wrote:


well assisting drones was never an issue with this since you never have been able to assist sentry drones and this is only talking about removing the ability for cruiser size hulls to use them.. not even talking about lowing drone bay or bandwith.. so heavy drones are still an option..



Sentry assist has always been a thing. From carriers, domis, ishtars or even prophecies, it's always been there.


As for the ishtar, tbh I'd start by changing the bonuses to not apply to sentries at all.
Pravius
The Bleak Lands Syndicate
#18 - 2015-01-28 23:09:40 UTC
Iain Cariaba wrote:
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:
Iain Cariaba wrote:
So, when you've successfully nerfed Ishtars into oblivion, are you going to then beg for nerfs to whatever takes its place as the OP hull of choice? And when that hull goes the way of the drake, are you going to protest the next FOTM hull? When does it stop?

I would really like an honest answer to these questions from OP.


That would probably be the gila as the people who hate the ishtar seem to have an issue with drones in general :D

That was less a question on which ship is going to be next, and more of a question on when OP and his ilk are going to be done whining about ships they think are OP.

As for the Gila, while it is pretty strong, it does have one glaring weakness. An arthritic tortoise tied to #50 boulder is able to outrun it.


and my ilk...

i dont have an issue with drones in general... i have an issue with sentry drones being used by a cruiser sized hull....
i dont even have issue with the ishtar and gila type ships useing heavy drones because being a specialized drone ship and all...

why fly a bs drone boat when isthars can do it.... and that is why every alliance flys ishtar fleets all the time. because its bs dps with cruiser sig and speed.
Anhenka
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#19 - 2015-01-28 23:22:48 UTC
Pravius wrote:

i dont have an issue with drones in general... i have an issue with sentry drones being used by a cruiser sized hull....
i dont even have issue with the ishtar and gila type ships useing heavy drones because being a specialized drone ship and all...

why fly a bs drone boat when isthars can do it.... and that is why every alliance flys ishtar fleets all the time. because its bs dps with cruiser sig and speed.



Did you somehow miss the tons of Domis in recent AT's?

And the main reason alliances fly Ishtars over Domis is that Ishtars are less prone to dying in the first few minutes of the fight from two bomb waves, since they are far more mobile and have lower sig radius that a Dominix.

If bombers were nerfed heavily, BS fleets would be far more common, but bringing just about any large BS fleet other than rattlesnakes is basically just a "kill my entire fleet with 20 bombers" sign being waved about.
Pravius
The Bleak Lands Syndicate
#20 - 2015-01-28 23:29:51 UTC
Anhenka wrote:
Pravius wrote:

i dont have an issue with drones in general... i have an issue with sentry drones being used by a cruiser sized hull....
i dont even have issue with the ishtar and gila type ships useing heavy drones because being a specialized drone ship and all...

why fly a bs drone boat when isthars can do it.... and that is why every alliance flys ishtar fleets all the time. because its bs dps with cruiser sig and speed.



Did you somehow miss the tons of Domis in recent AT's?

And the main reason alliances fly Ishtars over Domis is that Ishtars are less prone to dying in the first few minutes of the fight from two bomb waves, since they are far more mobile and have lower sig radius that a Dominix.

If bombers were nerfed heavily, BS fleets would be far more common, but bringing just about any large BS fleet other than rattlesnakes is basically just a "kill my entire fleet with 20 bombers" sign being waved about.


i think thats the point isnt it..... its a cruiser hull that brings battleship dps to the field without all the drawbacks of being a battleship...

and btw if they implement these changes it still will be able to with orgre 2 but will be forced to fight and closer ranges and carry differnt types of drones than just flights of sentry drones
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