These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

should CCP get rid of the PLEX system?

First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Druadan
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#41 - 2015-01-26 19:55:49 UTC
Adrie Atticus wrote:
Druadan wrote:
PLEX being able to be bought with ISK is fantastic. I've never made use of it myself, but it's good for the game. It's an ISK sink, removing ISK from the game for an item generated to be exhausted by its use.

PLEX being able to be bought with real money and then sold for ISK is horrible. It's pay to win. That said, I'm not sure what a good alternative to fighting ISK sellers is. Aside from extensive propogation of the warning that CCP will find you and they will remove the bought ISK. Back in the day, we only ever heard about it when the ISK buyer went to the forum to complain.


You do realize that the first part isn't how PLEX works. It works like your 2nd paragraph.

You heard it here first, Eve is fully P2W.


It works like both paragraphs. If you're buying PLEX with ISK, it works like the first. If you're buying PLEX with money and then selling for ISK, it works like the second. What I'm saying is it's great that people can buy PLEX for ISK, because that PLEX, which was generated when someone bought it with money, consumes ISK from the system. But being able to buy them for money and sell them ingame is what I think is wrong. You shouldn't be able to get ISK without ingame effort.

Of course, CCP-generated PLEX selling solely for ISK, the way trade goods like Soil etc. work, would be silly on its own, as it takes money from CCP's pocket.

Add to that PLEX's role in fighting ISK sellers and you reach my dilemma.

Of course, if you're going away from the game for a while, they're a great hedge against inflation.
BrundleMeth
State War Academy
Caldari State
#42 - 2015-01-26 20:17:37 UTC  |  Edited by: BrundleMeth
Excellent idea...

But I want to buy my ISK from political prisoners being forced to grind 20 hours a day...

But this seems like an AFK Cloaking thread to me...
Market McSelling Alt
Doomheim
#43 - 2015-01-26 20:22:45 UTC
Druadan wrote:
Adrie Atticus wrote:
Druadan wrote:
PLEX being able to be bought with ISK is fantastic. I've never made use of it myself, but it's good for the game. It's an ISK sink, removing ISK from the game for an item generated to be exhausted by its use.

PLEX being able to be bought with real money and then sold for ISK is horrible. It's pay to win. That said, I'm not sure what a good alternative to fighting ISK sellers is. Aside from extensive propogation of the warning that CCP will find you and they will remove the bought ISK. Back in the day, we only ever heard about it when the ISK buyer went to the forum to complain.


You do realize that the first part isn't how PLEX works. It works like your 2nd paragraph.

You heard it here first, Eve is fully P2W.


It works like both paragraphs. If you're buying PLEX with ISK, it works like the first. If you're buying PLEX with money and then selling for ISK, it works like the second. What I'm saying is it's great that people can buy PLEX for ISK, because that PLEX, which was generated when someone bought it with money, consumes ISK from the system. But being able to buy them for money and sell them ingame is what I think is wrong. You shouldn't be able to get ISK without ingame effort.

Of course, CCP-generated PLEX selling solely for ISK, the way trade goods like Soil etc. work, would be silly on its own, as it takes money from CCP's pocket.

Add to that PLEX's role in fighting ISK sellers and you reach my dilemma.

Of course, if you're going away from the game for a while, they're a great hedge against inflation.


Except you are 100% wrong. Plex doesn't remove isk from the game, it transfers it from one player to the other.

The only thing Plex can remove from the game is itself, which has no real in game value except that which someone will pay for it, but has out of game value.

So to reiterate. Plex is not an isk sink... if it is destroyed or used it is a RL Cash sink.

CCP Quant: Of all those who logon in Eve, 1.5% do Incursions, 13.8% PVP and 19.2% run Missions while 22.4% mine.

40.7% Join a fleet. The idea that Eve is a PVP game is false, the social fabric is in Missions and Mining.
Angel T Hunter
Republic Military School
#44 - 2015-01-26 20:42:03 UTC
waflat maplat wrote:
should CCP get rid of the PLEX system?

I have been thinking, would it not be better if CCP would get rid of the PLEX system and allow players to buy ISK straight from CCP?
It would solve some of the issue groups have with multi client players, because they make everything cheap on the market which is wrong (i do not like cheap pvp).

What can be solved in a more durable game play in the long run.

Ganker alt; It would reduce them, so the real gankers with real fleets can do their thing instead multi-account
(gankers who live in high sec as care bear but gank with an alt they would not pay for it in the first place if they had to).
Trading alts; it would reduce them so real traders can trade instead alts just to PLEX.
It will bring back real Scouting or camping done by real groups of different people instead AFK alt camping or scouting gates while bein in NPC corporations and their mains at war for example.
Pve; it would reduce single player fleets/multi-accounts so they cant feed the market that fast to just PLEX and because that make everything cheap (harcore working eve player does not like cheap stuff).
Incursion runners; it would reduce single player/multi client fleets so they cant feed the market to just PLEX and make everything cheap, those that dont want to pay for their accounts need other real players in the fleet.
Faction warfare, maybe we get real war instead multi clients disgusting camping plex crap
Miner alt; it would solve that as well, those that really like to mine would pay for all their miners instead mining to plex.

all above would solve a lot disgusting stuff going on in the game because alts and PLEX.

maybe if CCP would get rid of the PLEX system, the plex greed would be gone and maybe we would get a better game play where everything does not depend on PLEX.
people who want to pay for multi clients will pay for them and use them more wise.

i think buying ISK from CCP instead of buying PLEX to sell on the market would make the game maybe better in the long run, and everyone just pay for their accounts or those who want to pay for them.

this would be the solution for a lot of big groups in the game, since it would bring in less what they hate in the game, which is everything.
maybe it will bring the real game play back instead all of the players just grind for the PLEX and becouse that the market becomes overloaded and to cheap.
And so some groups can be happy because it would feed the market less because the mindless grind in the game all for the PLEX would be gone and everything would be more expensive which we all love.


CCP would still have the same income becouse we can buy ISK from them. i suggest 1.5B for 20$
so all the mindless grind in the game would be gone becouse no player ever has to grind for plex anymore Shocked


Should it be open for discussion? share your opinion please. Bear


No..
DaReaper
Net 7
Cannon.Fodder
#45 - 2015-01-26 20:59:15 UTC
Plex is not the problem. What is, is that ccp has for some odd reason tied a lot of extra services into plex. So when things like the alliance turny happen and teams need a lot of plex to join it, this tends to send the price up. Or for fan fest, or whatever.

What CCP should do, is you buy plex for arum, and sell the plex for isk. Then have the arum pay for all the other services. But plex it's self should not be removed, just untangled for other crap besides game time.

OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!

Eve For life.
Market McSelling Alt
Doomheim
#46 - 2015-01-26 21:43:18 UTC
DaReaper wrote:
Plex is not the problem. What is, is that ccp has for some odd reason tied a lot of extra services into plex. So when things like the alliance turny happen and teams need a lot of plex to join it, this tends to send the price up. Or for fan fest, or whatever.

What CCP should do, is you buy plex for arum, and sell the plex for isk. Then have the arum pay for all the other services. But plex it's self should not be removed, just untangled for other crap besides game time.



If we have to keep it, this is the best idea ever

CCP Quant: Of all those who logon in Eve, 1.5% do Incursions, 13.8% PVP and 19.2% run Missions while 22.4% mine.

40.7% Join a fleet. The idea that Eve is a PVP game is false, the social fabric is in Missions and Mining.
ashley Eoner
#47 - 2015-01-27 00:21:10 UTC  |  Edited by: ashley Eoner
waflat maplat wrote:
should CCP get rid of the PLEX system?

I have been thinking, would it not be better if CCP would get rid of the PLEX system and allow players to buy ISK straight from CCP?
It would solve some of the issue groups have with multi client players, because they make everything cheap on the market which is wrong (i do not like cheap pvp).

What can be solved in a more durable game play in the long run.

Ganker alt; It would reduce them, so the real gankers with real fleets can do their thing instead multi-account
(gankers who live in high sec as care bear but gank with an alt they would not pay for it in the first place if they had to).
Trading alts; it would reduce them so real traders can trade instead alts just to PLEX.
It will bring back real Scouting or camping done by real groups of different people instead AFK alt camping or scouting gates while bein in NPC corporations and their mains at war for example.
Pve; it would reduce single player fleets/multi-accounts so they cant feed the market that fast to just PLEX and because that make everything cheap (harcore working eve player does not like cheap stuff).
Incursion runners; it would reduce single player/multi client fleets so they cant feed the market to just PLEX and make everything cheap, those that dont want to pay for their accounts need other real players in the fleet.
Faction warfare, maybe we get real war instead multi clients disgusting camping plex crap
Miner alt; it would solve that as well, those that really like to mine would pay for all their miners instead mining to plex.

all above would solve a lot disgusting stuff going on in the game because alts and PLEX.

maybe if CCP would get rid of the PLEX system, the plex greed would be gone and maybe we would get a better game play where everything does not depend on PLEX.
people who want to pay for multi clients will pay for them and use them more wise.

i think buying ISK from CCP instead of buying PLEX to sell on the market would make the game maybe better in the long run, and everyone just pay for their accounts or those who want to pay for them.

this would be the solution for a lot of big groups in the game, since it would bring in less what they hate in the game, which is everything.
maybe it will bring the real game play back instead all of the players just grind for the PLEX and becouse that the market becomes overloaded and to cheap.
And so some groups can be happy because it would feed the market less because the mindless grind in the game all for the PLEX would be gone and everything would be more expensive which we all love.


CCP would still have the same income becouse we can buy ISK from them. i suggest 1.5B for 20$
so all the mindless grind in the game would be gone becouse no player ever has to grind for plex anymore Shocked


Should it be open for discussion? share your opinion please. Bear


It's funny how naive you are.

WOW had a major issue with multiboxing shamans and such in BGs. In that game not only do you have to pay a monthly fee but you also have buy expansions for 50 bucks PER account. So if that much cost didn't stop people from running +6 accounts a time how do you think a measly 12 bucks a month will?

Just like with the input duplication ban this would have little real effect in game. Some might quit but the annoying people will still be around.


Meanwhile subscribers would drop due to people cutting off alt accounts that they don't use often anyway. Hell some mains would quit too. I personally would have no interest in paying real cash to play this game. I have better things to spend my cash on.


EDIT : It's like people in this thread never played before plex was added. Plex really didn't change the multiboxer amount much. Plex did on the other hand absolutely KILL the gold spammers.
Val'Dore
PlanetCorp InterStellar
#48 - 2015-01-27 00:28:30 UTC
The PLEX system is actually an ISK sink. So no, definitely not wanting to turn it into a fountain.

Star Jump Drive A new way to traverse the galaxy.

I invented Tiericide
Market McSelling Alt
Doomheim
#49 - 2015-01-27 00:55:21 UTC
Val'Dore wrote:
The PLEX system is actually an ISK sink. So no, definitely not wanting to turn it into a fountain.



Explain how exactly one player paying another player for an item is a sink? The isk doesn't disappear.

My god people throw around the term isk sink and isk faucet but they have no clue. You sir have no clue.

CCP Quant: Of all those who logon in Eve, 1.5% do Incursions, 13.8% PVP and 19.2% run Missions while 22.4% mine.

40.7% Join a fleet. The idea that Eve is a PVP game is false, the social fabric is in Missions and Mining.
Skydell
Bad Girl Posse
#50 - 2015-01-27 01:03:23 UTC
Market McSelling Alt wrote:
Val'Dore wrote:
The PLEX system is actually an ISK sink. So no, definitely not wanting to turn it into a fountain.



Explain how exactly one player paying another player for an item is a sink? The isk doesn't disappear.

My god people throw around the term isk sink and isk faucet but they have no clue. You sir have no clue.


Most Plex are transferred through market transaction and tax and transaction is likely in the billions daily on Plex sales.

This whole topic is rather moot at best. Plex isn't going away.
Market McSelling Alt
Doomheim
#51 - 2015-01-27 01:10:45 UTC
Skydell wrote:
Market McSelling Alt wrote:
Val'Dore wrote:
The PLEX system is actually an ISK sink. So no, definitely not wanting to turn it into a fountain.



Explain how exactly one player paying another player for an item is a sink? The isk doesn't disappear.

My god people throw around the term isk sink and isk faucet but they have no clue. You sir have no clue.


Most Plex are transferred through market transaction and tax and transaction is likely in the billions daily on Plex sales.

This whole topic is rather moot at best. Plex isn't going away.



That is one heck of a leap. All transactions are taxed, not much and with the proper skills and standings... nevermind.

I agree Plex isn't going anywhere, but I do think CCP wants to get it off the market and into the NES.

CCP Quant: Of all those who logon in Eve, 1.5% do Incursions, 13.8% PVP and 19.2% run Missions while 22.4% mine.

40.7% Join a fleet. The idea that Eve is a PVP game is false, the social fabric is in Missions and Mining.
Brainless Bimbo
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#52 - 2015-01-27 01:20:16 UTC
I see eve is getting dumber and dumber...

Whoever came up with PLEX deserves far wider recognition for the genius it is.

already dead, just haven´t fallen over yet....
Brainless Bimbo
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#53 - 2015-01-27 01:22:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Brainless Bimbo
Market McSelling Alt wrote:
Val'Dore wrote:
The PLEX system is actually an ISK sink. So no, definitely not wanting to turn it into a fountain.



Explain how exactly one player paying another player for an item is a sink? The isk doesn't disappear.

My god people throw around the term isk sink and isk faucet but they have no clue. You sir have no clue.


If you buy game time / second account learning or ships that get blown up ITS A SINK, it removes ISK from the game world. In doing so it makes CCP some real life cash for user generated pixels that get deleted, so it is good for both game viability and company balance sheet.

PS: Just noticed your corp, now it all makes sense.

already dead, just haven´t fallen over yet....
ashley Eoner
#54 - 2015-01-27 01:55:16 UTC
Brainless Bimbo wrote:
Market McSelling Alt wrote:
Val'Dore wrote:
The PLEX system is actually an ISK sink. So no, definitely not wanting to turn it into a fountain.



Explain how exactly one player paying another player for an item is a sink? The isk doesn't disappear.

My god people throw around the term isk sink and isk faucet but they have no clue. You sir have no clue.


If you buy game time / second account learning or ships that get blown up ITS A SINK, it removes ISK from the game world. In doing so it makes CCP some real life cash for user generated pixels that get deleted, so it is good for both game viability and company balance sheet.

PS: Just noticed your corp, now it all makes sense.

It doesn't remove isk it just moves isk around. When you buy a plex all you did was give your isk to someone else. There was a minor sink if you used contracts or the market.

When you buy a ship and blow it up you're still just shuffling isk around.

A real isk sink is like LP rewards where the isk vanishes. Generally when you're giving a NPC isk it's a sink.
Market McSelling Alt
Doomheim
#55 - 2015-01-27 01:59:13 UTC
Brainless Bimbo wrote:
Market McSelling Alt wrote:
Val'Dore wrote:
The PLEX system is actually an ISK sink. So no, definitely not wanting to turn it into a fountain.



Explain how exactly one player paying another player for an item is a sink? The isk doesn't disappear.

My god people throw around the term isk sink and isk faucet but they have no clue. You sir have no clue.


If you buy game time / second account learning or ships that get blown up ITS A SINK, it removes ISK from the game world. In doing so it makes CCP some real life cash for user generated pixels that get deleted, so it is good for both game viability and company balance sheet.

PS: Just noticed your corp, now it all makes sense.



I am afraid nothing makes sense to you.

See If I buy 1 plex for $15 and sell it to you for 1bil isk.

You are -1bil isk and +1 Plex
I am -$15 and +1bil isk

Now do the math with me... -1bil + 1bil =.....?

Sink that.

CCP Quant: Of all those who logon in Eve, 1.5% do Incursions, 13.8% PVP and 19.2% run Missions while 22.4% mine.

40.7% Join a fleet. The idea that Eve is a PVP game is false, the social fabric is in Missions and Mining.
Val'Dore
PlanetCorp InterStellar
#56 - 2015-01-27 03:03:49 UTC
I never said the sink could eat JP Morgan. But a sink is a sink is a sink, don't turn it into a fountain.

Star Jump Drive A new way to traverse the galaxy.

I invented Tiericide
Eojek
Starlight Moly
#57 - 2015-01-27 03:13:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Eojek
CCP has no financial incentive to do so. PLEX sales and subsequent annihilation by ship kills means that CCP has your money and you have no goods to show for it. Buying ISK directly is protected by in-game bank accounts and this means CCP must actually engage in an exchange that lowers their profit margin.

Before PLEX, CCP had to compete with ISK farmers. ISK farmers would sell the ISK for real money. CCP came up with PLEX in order to aquire that market, enforcing in game rules that allowed them to do so. If CCP did away with PLEX, the ISK farmers would return and likely undercut CCP's price-per-ISK.
Market McSelling Alt
Doomheim
#58 - 2015-01-27 03:17:00 UTC
Val'Dore wrote:
I never said the sink could eat JP Morgan. But a sink is a sink is a sink, don't turn it into a fountain.



How many times does it need to be said. The transaction of Plex never eliminates isk from the game... ever

so while a sink is a sink, there is no sink here... just someone who really doesn't understand.

CCP Quant: Of all those who logon in Eve, 1.5% do Incursions, 13.8% PVP and 19.2% run Missions while 22.4% mine.

40.7% Join a fleet. The idea that Eve is a PVP game is false, the social fabric is in Missions and Mining.
Raiz Nhell
State War Academy
Caldari State
#59 - 2015-01-27 03:31:34 UTC
Market McSelling Alt wrote:
Val'Dore wrote:
I never said the sink could eat JP Morgan. But a sink is a sink is a sink, don't turn it into a fountain.



How many times does it need to be said. The transaction of Plex never eliminates isk from the game... ever

so while a sink is a sink, there is no sink here... just someone who really doesn't understand.



Do PLEX transactions get taxed? Yes
Is the Transaction tax an isk sink (Takes isk out of the game)? Yes

For example
10% Tax

Me: Plex
You: 1bill isk
Market Magic!
Me: 990mil
You: Plex

Holy Dominix Poo!! Where did that ISK go?!?!?
Into a sink dear fellow.

It appears that someone doesn't understand.


There is no such thing as a fair fight...

If your fighting fair you have automatically put yourself at a disadvantage.
Johan Civire
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#60 - 2015-01-27 03:44:10 UTC
............................................________........................
....................................,.-‘”...................``~.,..................
.............................,.-”...................................“-.,............
.........................,/...............................................”:,........
.....................,?......................................................\,.....
.................../...........................................................,}....
................./......................................................,:`^`..}....
.............../...................................................,:”........./.....
..............?.....__.........................................:`.........../.....
............./__.(.....“~-,_..............................,:`........../........
.........../(_....”~,_........“~,_....................,:`........_/...........
..........{.._$;_......”=,_.......“-,_.......,.-~-,},.~”;/....}...........
...........((.....*~_.......”=-._......“;,,./`..../”............../............
...,,,___.\`~,......“~.,....................`.....}............../.............
............(....`=-,,.......`........................(......;_,,-”...............
............/.`~,......`-...............................\....../\...................
.............\`~.*-,.....................................|,./.....\,__...........
,,_..........}.>-._\...................................|..............`=~-,....
.....`=~-,_\_......`\,.................................\........................
...................`=~-,,.\,...............................\.......................
................................`:,,...........................`\..............__..
.....................................`=-,...................,%`>--==``.......
........................................_\..........._,-%.......`\...............
...................................,<`.._|_,-&``................`\..............