Player Features and Ideas Discussion

What we should be doing is putting the screws to people who don't search and people who post redundant threads.

Ganking, meanwhile, is at an all-time low and highsec is still full of people who somehow confused EVE with WoW.

We should put the screws to those who think that highsec is supposed to be an idyllic paradise and those who think ganking needs to be nerfed.

Normally I would agree with this statement, but as it stands in game there really isn't a reason for miners/industrialists/traders/PvErs to go to low. Too much risk, not enough reward. Even with suicide ganking being a thing, the risk of going to lowsec for mining isn't worth it.

Currently in game, the most profitable ore for hisec miners is Massive Scordite. It makes them enough money to continue fueling their mining craze, so why would they bother going into lowsec, with all those dangerous pirates and BS rats, when they can just mine their Scordite in hisec?

Same with really hardcore PvErs, sure there might be better anoms and combat sites in low, but hisec still has incursions and level 4 missions in it to run (which also give better payout in the long run), so why should I risk my marauder in lowsec when I can make even more money just doing it in hisec?

Traders and industrialists too, why should they bother hauling all this crap around in "dangerous" space when the markets are all in hisec, and there isn't a huge market in low?

Don't get me wrong, I do see these activities happen in lowsec on rare occasions (PvE happens pretty frequently, but not enough to suit my ratter bloodlust), but all-in-all I see more Coveters with Orca support in hisec, than I see Skiffs, Procurers, and hell even Ventures and Prospects in lowsec. The risk is too high for most play-styles, and the only real solution I see is nerfing hisec content.

The real solution is to create more content in losec (player or CCP generated) that will entice people into losec or lower. If anything other than hisec is too risky for a player currently they won't suddenly go to losec etc by removing the content they currently play. Most likely they would get annoyed and quit the game.

Players need a reason to go to other regions, not forcing to do so. If hisec is a PvE havn so be it, the lower sec regions are for PvP and chances are the hisec players would never give a 'good fight' since they would be fit to run at all costs. They would optimize their fits to avoid combat and become very good at doing so very quickly.

Highsec is drawing PvE away from Lowsec and Nullsec where all the fun player interaction happens, and it also keeps poor newbies bound there for the boring and repetitive low risk high reward activities until they get bored and quit the game instead of being tempted to venture out to find the true EVE experience. Much of the Highsec carebear population consists of fairly new players who play until they unlock the biggest baddest mining ship or L4 missions and then quit. The dedicated long term highsec carebears are insignificant compared to the lost potential of those who play for just a few months.

Dull Highsec is a barrier to the growth of the game and thus to the growth of the environments I do enjoy in Low, Null and W-Space. The more people that live outside Highsec, the more fun there is to have outside of Highsec, since all the good things in this game happen trough player interaction which does not happen if there are no players out there to interact with.

Why the **** should I change how I play? Life in Wormhole-space is absolutely amazing!

I just want more people to join me here, and to play in an economy that does not strongly favour low-risk activities over high-risk actities. It is entirely reasonable to demand that risk and reward go hand in hand.

Hell, I even see a lot of Nullsec, Lowsec and W-Space players financing their activities trough Highsec alts, because the risk/reward ratio is just that off balance.

See, you don't get what I am saying. Let me try to explain it to you in terms that people like you might understand.

For instance: You "just want" people to join you there. Do you want to do something that they join you there? Contact suitable people, recruit suitable people, interact with suitable people? Do you do anything like that to inform people playing in High sec about their possibilities in your corp/alliance, about benefits and the fun, but also how they have to play to maximize their reward and minimize their risk? Do you support new players and cut back your own activities in order to play with them and get them used to your favored environment? I doubt that. But that is what I mean with "change how you play". People like you, who are in favor of CCP forcing people out of habits that they don't like, instead of them becoming active are the problem why there are not more people outside High sec. People who are only after the convenient way to play and to blame others for their lack of activity. You need to become active and do actively something to bring more people into an area that you like to play in. You need to do something instead of just complaining about it. You can get in touch with suitable producers, miners, PVErs and PVPers to make them come with you. That is what I mean when I say you need to change.
You also "just want" everyone there. You don't differentiate between different types of players, you want every player to go there, whether that space or playstyle is suitable for them or not you ignore completely. You don't want to put in effort to find people who have a potential and potential interest in going to other places than High sec. You want everyone outside and ignore the fact that this is not possible for everyone for a variety of reasons and if everyone was forced to leave High sec, they would quit rather than continue to play. There are many things that can be done with many players, as I described above and in my previous posts, but you ought to realize that you have to put effort into finding suitable people and not push everyone around.

I don't see anything CCP can do there except for disproportionately increasing risk and lowering reward in High sec. And even then people won't leave High sec and just continue complaining about it. Even then, people won't start creating better trade hubs all around the place and where they want it. Even then people would not get in touch with other players and try to entice them into other areas of space. It would still require a change in how you play the game and that is, just as you demonstrated, something people do not want. Go figure.

I do not assume, I know that for matters of facts.

It is a pipe dream because of players and their unwillingness to change. Hubs in HS or anywhere for that matter only exist because of the need of players to get things at a central point. That is all nice and fine. However, please stop complaining about how bad High sec is for you (impersonal you this time) if you are unwilling to change and go a different route. If you are only after the easy way to play, you cannot expect things to change. If people stop buying in Jita or Amarr because they get their merchandise delivered to them or they produce what they need in their own realm, High sec hubs wither away and lose significantly in importance. All it needs is a bit more effort, but that is something players do not want to put into the game.

Low sec exploration already offers way more reward than High sec.

You cannot go to Low sec and "casually run" some missions. That is impossible because it would go against what Low sec is about and would go against your claims for more risk. Low sec is more risk and therefor inhibits casual game play.

This is all off topic but correct. Exploration, and I would argue PI provide the economic incentive to leave highsec quite well. The first time I ever left highsec was not to PvP, but to set up a PI operation in lowsec as the rewards are significantly better than highsec. Exploration is also a strong draw for new players to leave highsec and see that the other spaces are not the insta-death traps that rookie chat may lead them to believe.

All income generating activities need to be adjusted as such, either by nerfing rewards in highsec, or increasing them elsewhere - the exact numbers or direction doesn't matter as it is the relative risk vs. reward that will dictate player behaviour. Nerfing highsec would probably be the best to keep the economy in check, but if that isn't politically viable, just significantly increase the rewards outside of highsec to compensate for the risk. CCP can inflate away the highsec income advantage without touching the current mechanics of the L4 mission runner, but still provide incentive for players to live in other spaces.

Playing casual is fine, but playing casual with CONCORD protection should not be the optimum way to make ISK in the game as is the case now for highsec mission and incursion runners.

I think you missed the point GP was making

OP --> "CCP, protect us more, there aren't enough NPC penalties for -10 people"

Corraidhin --> "OP, seriously, fit a ship and SHOOT THE -10S!"

This is not going to change anything. You can already make more money in Low sec and Null sec, you can already do more in Low sec and Null sec. If you reduce the rewards in High sec, it is not going to change the fact that people do not want to put effort into the game, people want easy content. You cannot have the same activities in Low sec that you have in High sec, you cannot do the same activities as you do them in High sec. You need to gather intel, you need to watch local and intel channels, you need to collaborate and cooperate with others, but these are all things people do not want to do. How do you intend to change that attitude? More money in Low sec won't achieve that, because it would have already done so.

And even if for some wondrous reason a considerable number of people moved to Low sec and gained more rewards than in High sec, their rewards would dwindle and diminish as more people make more money, LP, $insert_reward$. In the end, they again don't make more in Low sec than they do today in High sec, but need to put more effort into as more people in Low sec means more risk while still having reduce reward. How do you tackle that problem? What you create is a serpent that eats its own tail and wonders why it feels pain...

Oh, and by the way, if you wonder what that has to do with higher security and more punishment for gankers (to put this back into the picture of the OP's topic): Gankers take content out of Low sec by being active in High sec and lure people from Low sec into High sec. They reduce the population of Low sec by being as active as they are. There is nothing speaking against ganking, but this level of organization and enticement to bring more people into the ganking business instead of real PVP and activity in Low sec is a considerable contributing factor why Low sec is as inactive as it is. Casual, fun time ganking is all nice and dandy, but if you start bringing people out of Low sec just for that reason or make people from High sec go gank and stop them from going beyond that stage, it is only going to make matters worse. As said in another thread with a similar topic: Why would someone who finds enough content and PVP in High sec, where no one shoots back and hurts your activity, go to Low sec where these rules do not apply and where you as a PVPer are at risk of losing your ship without getting a kill? In my opinion, ganking should be a short-term, one-time activity that is fun for a moment, but has severe discouraging consequences in order to force people who want to go PVP into Low sec and Null sec and live there. Just as PVErs should not have access to easy, protected content, PVPers should neither. And this recent focus on making ganking easier or more widespread is just that.