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Poor And Lazy Mission Runner
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Iamreallyugly
Doomheim
#1 - 2015-01-24 22:00:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Iamreallyugly
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EDIT: IGNORE THIS POST, GO TO THE BOTTOM.

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Basically I want something that does L4s with minimum effort from my standpoint. That generally means I don't need to even read which mission it is, I want to accept and warp to 0, go back.

This is not the most efficient, I am aware, but I am usually watching lectures or doing some work while doing missions anyway. I am currently worth about 100M isk, so keeping it cheap is key. I have a Sentry Domi that does mediocre damage, and has a crap tank...so I am waiting on MJD cooldown a lot.

I currently have Gallente BS at 5 and Minmitar at 0...will get that up to 4 quickly. I also only have Large Projectiles at 4, so need close to 20 days for that, so putting in non-T2 for now. I am aware that DCUs are not optimal in PvE, but it adds a lot for my lazy man omni tank approach. My only expensive piece I am going to go for is the Gist LSB. Without the AB my cap lasts >13 mins. I figure I will just drop MTU and orbit at 5k. Not sure if I need the AB on to tank L4s (I am used to fighting in Frigates in FW...not using a BS to speed tank rats). With Ogres it still breaks 1K DPS even with my crap skills. The warp speed bonus is my biggest draw to this ship. The isk/hour will be much greater than my Domi. Now I just have to earn another 800M isk before I can buy it.

Will this work for what I want:

[Machariel, Machariel]

Damage Control II
Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II

Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Gist A-Type Large Shield Booster
Shield Boost Amplifier II
Core C-Type 100MN Afterburner

800mm Heavy 'Scout' Repeating Cannon I, Fusion L
800mm Heavy 'Scout' Repeating Cannon I, Fusion L
800mm Heavy 'Scout' Repeating Cannon I, Fusion L
800mm Heavy 'Scout' Repeating Cannon I, Fusion L
800mm Heavy 'Scout' Repeating Cannon I, Fusion L
800mm Heavy 'Scout' Repeating Cannon I, Fusion L
800mm Heavy 'Scout' Repeating Cannon I, Fusion L
Auto Targeting System I

Large Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Large Semiconductor Memory Cell I
Large Semiconductor Memory Cell I


Hobgoblin II x5
Ogre II x4
The Cyno NamedDino
State War Academy
Caldari State
#2 - 2015-01-24 22:06:48 UTC
Ok... I am confused... You want a semi afk boat, which is what the Dominix is, but then state that you want to get into a Mach, which requires a significant amount of manual piloting and situational awareness...
Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2015-01-24 22:07:17 UTC
if you can't do level 4s effectively in a domi you'll be even worse in a mach.

Art of Explosions
Iamreallyugly
Doomheim
#4 - 2015-01-24 22:22:20 UTC
Tsukino Stareine wrote:
if you can't do level 4s effectively in a domi you'll be even worse in a mach.


I have no problems in a domi, but the DPS is low enough (I have nearly perfect drone skills) that it feels really slow.
The Cyno NamedDino
State War Academy
Caldari State
#5 - 2015-01-24 22:33:09 UTC
If you want an L4 mission runner that is easy on the wallet, does reasonable DPS, and doesnt take much in the way of paying attention, then you should just get an Ishtar. It isnt going to be amazing, but seriously, the Mach is the exact opposite of what you seem to be wanting. Especially if you dont plan to bling it out, and have solid/maxed skills, it is going to take some effort. Hell, even blinged out and with good skills it is going to require constant attention to keep everything rolling smoothly. It seems to me that you want a drone boat, which could basically just be plopped down, and keep going while you run for the bathroom. And since you are broke, your Dominix should be what you are doing that in. Next up the line is going to be the Ishtar.

Passed that, you need to increase effort and cost for all the extra DPS.
SGT FUNYOUN
Elysian Space Navy - 1st Fleet
#6 - 2015-01-24 22:37:26 UTC
Yeah... what they said.
SGT FUNYOUN
Elysian Space Navy - 1st Fleet
#7 - 2015-01-24 22:43:13 UTC  |  Edited by: SGT FUNYOUN
If you are going to go for a domi, might I recommend 1400 MM tech 2 rails... I have a sniper domi built with 4 of them, a resistance and repper armor tank, and MJD... run drones off the rest of the high slots and use the sniper rails to blast the rest... other wise drop the guns completely, save for a pair of defensive guns for anything that gets inside your 50-60km zone which your auto-targeter should handle, carry max number of drones, fit drone damage boosters and rnage controllers, and a MJD and get in there and hit that MJD as soon as you hit the cluster in a safe direction, then burn into max control range and work your drones from the auto targeter. Start with the closests smallest and fastest targets first blast them to bits, then burn the big slower stuff in succession keeping an eye on range. If anything gets inside your 100 KKM zone, move away from them as fast as the regular engine will give.
The Cyno NamedDino
State War Academy
Caldari State
#8 - 2015-01-24 22:47:05 UTC
I dont suggest that at all. Sentries wont follow you. MJD, stop, deploy sentries, eat popcorn.
Iamreallyugly
Doomheim
#9 - 2015-01-24 22:51:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Iamreallyugly
I hadn't thought about the Ishtar, but the increased maneuverability and warp speed sounds good to me. I never understood how Ishtars work for L4s. The optimal for the drones is much lower than my Domi. Is the Ishtar relatively "safe" orbiting an MTU at 5K with AB on? This build is cap stable. The blasters would be to kill frigates when they got close. Resists are 74/75/90/68. I would need to get to HAC 4, I only have HAC 3 right now.

This sounds more fun to me than the MJD Domi, but just wondering how safe it is. I dont want to get two webs and then get insta-popped.

[Ishtar, Ishtar]

Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Omnidirectional Tracking Enhancer II

Pithum C-Type Adaptive Invulnerability Field
Pith C-Type EM Ward Field
10MN Afterburner II
Pithum C-Type Medium Shield Booster
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II, Optimal Range Script

Drone Link Augmentor II
Auto Targeting System I
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Null M
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Null M

Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I


Garde II x5
SGT FUNYOUN
Elysian Space Navy - 1st Fleet
#10 - 2015-01-24 22:51:46 UTC
The Cyno NamedDino wrote:
I dont suggest that at all. Sentries wont follow you. MJD, stop, deploy sentries, eat popcorn.


Not sure if you meant me or the OP, I meant heavy drones personally... sentry drones are good for dropping in one spot and then pushing out to max range, only problem is they are sitting ducks... so anything that hits them you have to drop back in and fling more then pop back out... or use them for close defense... as their firing ranges are rather pathetic... but they make for decent extra fleet security... which I think they were designed for.
The Cyno NamedDino
State War Academy
Caldari State
#11 - 2015-01-24 23:03:58 UTC
Ishtars can speed/sig tank L4s pretty well. If you shield tank them, you can sport solid drone DPS and still maintain a good tank. Bouncers on an Ishtar reach out more than enough if you ask me, but you could always use Wardens. I stick to just bouncers and Gardes, but if you are semi-afking it, then Bouncers would likely be the way to go. And I wouldnt use blasters up close, I would just use the sentries to eat up the frigs before they get close. And if they get close, pick up drones, move, drop again, repeat.



SGT FUNYOUN wrote:


Not sure if you meant me or the OP, I meant heavy drones personally... sentry drones are good for dropping in one spot and then pushing out to max range, only problem is they are sitting ducks... so anything that hits them you have to drop back in and fling more then pop back out... or use them for close defense... as their firing ranges are rather pathetic... but they make for decent extra fleet security... which I think they were designed for.


At 100km out, they are not really sitting ducks. And if they get agro, you can pull them in, and drop them again. Problem solved in just a second or two. And their firing ranges are far from pathetic. A Warden goes well over 100km without too much problems. Hell, even the Garde is something like 60-70km if you are including falloff. 35km or something like that just in optimal. (figures off the top of my head here)
Silvetica Dian
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#12 - 2015-01-24 23:33:02 UTC
rattlesnake.
more dps.
more tank.
Smile

Money at its root is a form of rationing. When the richest 85 people have as much wealth as the poorest 3.5 billion (50% of humanity) it is clear where the source of poverty is. http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jan/20/trickle-down-economics-broken-promise-richest-85
Iamreallyugly
Doomheim
#13 - 2015-01-25 00:48:45 UTC
Silvetica Dian wrote:
rattlesnake.
more dps.
more tank.
Smile


No Caldari BS and practically no missile skills. I have ~56M SP but all Gallente focused.
Iamreallyugly
Doomheim
#14 - 2015-01-25 01:47:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Iamreallyugly
So I think I realized what I hated about my Domi (other than how butt ugly it is), is that every time I undock I can feel my soul being sucked away with how slow it is. I think thats what drew me to the Machariel was the warp bonus.

I have an Ishtar designed that cost 600M, does the same DPS as my Domi, and is cap stable. The tank profile is 75.3/76.2/91.1/79.3. I am hoping with that Omni I should be OK for all L4s. I also will feel much more nimble going between pockets and to/from missions.

I have ONLY ever done L4s with a sentry Domi. It is safe and easy. With the Ishtar what is the best strategy? I need to be within 50km for my Gardes which means I will be taking damage, so do I orbit my MTU and that is enough? Am I safe to go in and brawl? With such a low amount of actual HP between full health and death...I just want to make sure I do this right.

[Ishtar, Sentry v1]

Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Omnidirectional Tracking Enhancer II

Pithum C-Type Adaptive Invulnerability Field
Pith A-Type EM Ward Field
10MN Afterburner II
Pithum C-Type Medium Shield Booster
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II, Optimal Range Script

Drone Link Augmentor II
Auto Targeting System I
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Null M
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Null M

Medium Anti-Explosive Screen Reinforcer II
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit II


Garde II x5
Warden II x5
Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#15 - 2015-01-25 01:56:02 UTC
Iamreallyugly wrote:
and is cap stable.


why is this like the holy grail for missioners???? You limit yourself SO much by forcing yourself to go for a cap stable fit.

Also what are those blasters going to do when you are sniping?

Art of Explosions
Iamreallyugly
Doomheim
#16 - 2015-01-25 01:57:27 UTC
Tsukino Stareine wrote:
Iamreallyugly wrote:
and is cap stable.


why is this like the holy grail for missioners???? You limit yourself SO much by forcing yourself to go for a cap stable fit.

Also what are those blasters going to do when you are sniping?


All I did was use one rig being cap stable.

The blasters are for frigates.
Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#17 - 2015-01-25 02:07:09 UTC
it's not stable according to EFT

and good luck hitting frigates with heavy neutrons with no web, painter, tracking bonus

Art of Explosions
Iamreallyugly
Doomheim
#18 - 2015-01-25 02:09:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Iamreallyugly
Tsukino Stareine wrote:
it's not stable according to EFT

and good luck hitting frigates with heavy neutrons with no web, painter, tracking bonus


Sorry, meant with guns off. I am looking for advice here. I have never speed tanked a mission, so I am not really sure if I am doing this right.

I can also downgrade the guns for better tracking.

I can with something like dual 180s and use barrage (I do have medium projectile skills, just not large). Heck, even small lasers and use Scorch. Frigates usually come within 10km, and I can fit 3 small lasers.
Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#19 - 2015-01-25 02:28:32 UTC
Like you're going about this the wrong way. The point of speed tanking is that you don't get hit.

Should be popping frigates on approach from range. Highslots can be empty for all intents and purposes.

Art of Explosions
Iamreallyugly
Doomheim
#20 - 2015-01-25 04:03:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Iamreallyugly
Just finishing my first Ishtar mission. Was usually 25-70 km at any given time. Orbited MTU at 5k. I think I got hit once or twice.

The FAST LOCKING TIMES, agility, and warp acceleration/speed made this upgrade worth it over the Domi.

Now we'll just see how it does versus Exp/EM rats. Hopefully this keeps going well. Thanks for the advice guys.

Edit:

This is my first build that I could afford. Resists are at 68.4/72/89.5/74.1. I do not have Shield Rigging to IV yet and I am training HAC 4. I was planning on pimping the tank out some, but so far nothing has been able to touch me. This does take a TINY bit more management than my Domi (mainly because I am much closer to the rats so my sentries are taking damage...need an extra mid for a target painter). I played around in Pyfa and pimping it to 1.2B (my current cost ~360M) nets me a reasonably better tank, ~50 m/s faster, and about ~50 more Garde dps. Unless I run into some missions that start hurting me, not sure I can justify all that. The extra damage may be worth it, but that alone is nearly 500M.

[Ishtar, Sentry v1]

Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Omnidirectional Tracking Enhancer II

10MN Afterburner II
Federation Navy Omnidirectional Tracking Link, Optimal Range Script
Pithum C-Type Medium Shield Booster
Pith C-Type EM Ward Field
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II

Drone Link Augmentor II
Small Focused Pulse Laser II, Scorch S
Small Focused Pulse Laser II, Scorch S
Small Focused Pulse Laser II, Scorch S

Medium Anti-Explosive Screen Reinforcer I
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit II


Garde II x5
Warden II x5
Bouncer II x5
Curator II x5

"Pimped" version:

[Ishtar, Sentry v2]

Federation Navy Drone Damage Amplifier
Federation Navy Drone Damage Amplifier
Federation Navy Drone Damage Amplifier
Federation Navy Drone Damage Amplifier
Omnidirectional Tracking Enhancer II

Gistum C-Type 10MN Afterburner
Federation Navy Omnidirectional Tracking Link, Optimal Range Script
Pithum C-Type Medium Shield Booster
Pith X-Type EM Ward Field
Pithum C-Type Adaptive Invulnerability Field

Drone Link Augmentor II
Small Focused Pulse Laser II, Scorch S
Small Focused Pulse Laser II, Scorch S
Small Focused Pulse Laser II, Scorch S

Medium Anti-Explosive Screen Reinforcer II
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit II


Garde II x5
Warden II x5
Curator II x5
Bouncer II x5