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Help with Rattlesnake fit for High Sec L4s.
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The Cyno NamedDino
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1 - 2015-01-22 17:11:48 UTC  |  Edited by: The Cyno NamedDino
I flew a Golem for about 6 months last year, but got bored, and took a break. I came back last week, and have flown my Golem a bit more, but I find it incredibly boring, and relatively slow. Or at least it feels that way. So after reading around, I bit the bullet, and picked up a Rattlesnake. I fit it out similar to how I run my Golem, but with drone mods. I took it out to give it a whirl and... Got bitchslapped pretty badly. there have been times, such as the Assault, or Blockade where I have had to warp out with the Golem because I did something stupid, but I had to warp out no less than FOUR times in Dread Pirate Scarlett just now with my Rattlesnake.

Now, I may be trying to push the Rattlesnake in a way it isnt meant to be done, due to the fact that I am used to my Golem, but I have been told over and over about how the Rattlesnake would massively out damage my Golem, and that it didnt need very many tank modules. Below is my fit:

[Rattlesnake, New Setup 1]
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II

Federation Navy Omnidirectional Tracking Link
Federation Navy Omnidirectional Tracking Link
Sensor Booster II
Republic Fleet Target Painter
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Large Micro Jump Drive
Pith C-Type Large Shield Booster

Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Cruise Missile
Drone Link Augmentor I

Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I
Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I
[empty rig slot]

Bouncer II x2
Gecko x1
Garde II x2
Warrior II x5


I didnt use the Gecko, and was relying almost entirely on Bouncers, except when things got close enough for my Gardes to take over. I was getting hammered by missiles, and the tank was not holding at all. The damage didnt seem all that much better than my Golem, either, and yes, I have solid drone skills.

So, can anyone point me in the right direction? I have a feeling that I am likely under tanked, but I am not really sure what I should be dropping, because I really need that SeBo.

Edit: I am aware of the rigs. ;)
Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2015-01-22 18:51:35 UTC
are you using the mjd? I mean even an untanked rattle is almost enough to tank level 4s, should be completely doable with MJD.

Art of Explosions
The Cyno NamedDino
State War Academy
Caldari State
#3 - 2015-01-22 18:53:53 UTC
Yes, I was using the MJD. But that doesnt help at all against the missiles that were pounding down on me.
Charlie Jacobson
#4 - 2015-01-22 19:02:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Charlie Jacobson
Dread Pirate Scarlett is probably the most dangerous L4 mission, though.

With my rattle I prefer to use the rig slots for tank and not worry too much about cruise missile damage application at all. No target painter either. The missiles are good against battleships, but drones blap smaller stuff fast enough without them imo.

I support James 315 and the New Order of Highsec
The Cyno NamedDino
State War Academy
Caldari State
#5 - 2015-01-22 19:04:47 UTC
I have never had any real problems with it in my Golem. I have certainly never had to warp out.
Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2015-01-22 19:05:24 UTC
missioning is a lot about knowing the mission: triggers, what is most lethal, timing etc.

If you wanted a safer tankier fit, forgo the ballistic control units completely and fit shield power relays, get some shield extenders and fit purger rigs.

Art of Explosions
Quanah Comanche
#7 - 2015-01-22 19:44:19 UTC
As above missioning is pretty much rote.
The Cyno NamedDino
State War Academy
Caldari State
#8 - 2015-01-22 19:51:41 UTC
I am well aware of how things work, and how to run the missions. The Rattlesnake might just not be my bag then.
Berina Jouhinen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#9 - 2015-01-22 20:44:03 UTC
I've used the snake a lot more for WHs than missions, but I used to mission a lot.

I'm pretty sure you should drop the SEBO for mission specific hardener, and use the rig slots for tank. I assume CCCs but I don't have pyfa in front of me, so I can see your cap situation.

Personally against missile ships I'd just drop the MJD for another hardener and brawl with them/DPS tank. If you do you can use double omni gecko to murder frigs/cruisers and TP'd BS should melt to cruise missiles.

Part of the problem with Dread Pirate Scarlett is that you face every kind of rat so every type of DPS so you have to genuinely omnitank (or depot/switch tanks). I remember I wouldn't have to warp out in my RNI, but I would def run real close on the tank against EM rats. Maybe got down to 1 for an EM hardener on that mission. Single omni Gecko will still do fine vs cruisers and I assume even frigs (it 2 shots WH frigs, and seems to hit 40-50% of the time).
Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2015-01-23 00:24:18 UTC
The Cyno NamedDino wrote:
I am well aware of how things work, and how to run the missions. The Rattlesnake might just not be my bag then.


No offence but, I've done dread pirate scarlet in a sentry myrmidon using an Afterburner to get range and then sniping.

If you have to warp out in a rattlesnake you're doing something horrifically wrong.

Art of Explosions
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#11 - 2015-01-23 01:10:34 UTC
Your fit is similar to mine OP... however I tend to fit a fair bit more tank for "peace of mind."

[Rattlesnake, Ranged PvE]

Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Co-Processor II

Shield Boost Amplifier II
X-Large Shield Booster II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Large Micro Jump Drive
Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II, Optimal Range Script

Cruise Missile Launcher II, Inferno Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Inferno Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Inferno Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Inferno Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Inferno Cruise Missile
Drone Link Augmentor II

Large Core Defense Capacitor Safeguard I
Large Core Defense Capacitor Safeguard I
Large Core Defense Operational Solidifier I

Garde II x2
Curator II x2 OR Warden II x2
Gecko OR Ogre II x2
Hobgoblin II x5

How did you Veterans start?
The Cyno NamedDino
State War Academy
Caldari State
#12 - 2015-01-23 06:41:27 UTC
Tsukino Stareine wrote:

No offence but, I've done dread pirate scarlet in a sentry myrmidon using an Afterburner to get range and then sniping.

If you have to warp out in a rattlesnake you're doing something horrifically wrong.


The Guristas cant be range tanked, so I am not sure how I could be doing something "horrifically wrong." With the tank I had fitted, the shield booster was completely overwhelmed by the damage. My shields did nothing but go down. Again, I have flown all of these missions a ton of times, but in a Golem. The Golem has no problems keeping shields at max the whole time. So, I will assert again that the Rattlesnake might just not be what I am after.
Cap James Tkirk
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2015-01-23 07:10:44 UTC
Guristas only do KIN damage drop the Sebo for a KIN hardener i used an omni Rattler that had no issues against anything but boredom
Nycha
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#14 - 2015-01-23 08:45:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Nycha
Original fitting was from someone other didnt bookmarked, sorry. Here is my take:

[Rattlesnake, passive LazyBoat 2]

5x Cruise Missile Launcher II (Inferno Fury Cruise Missile)
Drone Link Augmentor II

Large Micro Jump Drive
100MN Afterburner II
EM Ward Field II
2x Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
2x Large Shield Extender II

Damage Control II
2x Shield Power Relay II
2x Drone Damage Amplifier II
Ballistic Control System II

3x Large Core Defense Field Purger II

5x Hobgoblin II
1x Gecko
2x Garde II
2x Warden II

With max skills (evehq):
150k ehp, tanks 560 omni dps, capstable, all resi at least 70%, dualprop, 1.2k dps.
Around 750million cost.

As you arent using omnis, painter, rigors you should also have some precision cruises in cargo.
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#15 - 2015-01-23 17:59:34 UTC
The Cyno NamedDino wrote:
The Guristas cant be range tanked, so I am not sure how I could be doing something "horrifically wrong." With the tank I had fitted, the shield booster was completely overwhelmed by the damage. My shields did nothing but go down. Again, I have flown all of these missions a ton of times, but in a Golem. The Golem has no problems keeping shields at max the whole time. So, I will assert again that the Rattlesnake might just not be what I am after.

Bear in mind that the Golem gets a triple tank bonus in the form of Bastion Mode (100% rep amount + 30% non-stackable resistance) and the hull bonus (37.5% rep amount).

So you can get away with FAR less tank on a Golem than you can on a Rattlesnake (which only has a 20% bonus to shield resistances)

However... even with more tank fitted the Rattlesnake pumps out much more damage both at range and up close. It just requires a fair degree more micromanagement and situational awareness.

How did you Veterans start?
The Cyno NamedDino
State War Academy
Caldari State
#16 - 2015-01-23 18:18:22 UTC
I am aware that the Golem has a stupid crazy tank, even without too many tank modules. However, the "hype" around on the Rattlesnake had me to believe that I could increase my DPS by quite a bit, and still put up a solid tank. Something that hasnt panned out. If I couldnt fly the Golem, then sure, the Rattlesnake might be a great boat for this, but since I can, and already do fly the Golem, the Rattlesnake was not what I was expecting based on feedback given to me. Ergo, the ship is clearly just not my thing.

I was drawn in by the almost 1500 DPS of the Rattlesnake, but that hinged entirely on the lack of tank modules. The passive fits shown above look solid, and I am sure they perform beautifully. However, the DPS sacrifice that they make for that doesnt even out when I could just be in my Golem. My Golem has no problems putting out 1200+ DPS with torps and Valks, while sporting a gigantic tank. Now, true, torps have limited range. Meaning that if things are at quite the distance, I cant really damage them. In that case, I would still put out around 1k DPS with cruise missiles. But my Golem has a dual prop, MJD and AB, so range is typically not a big deal.

So, this thread has served its purpose. The answer to my issue has been given. I thought that the ship would perform in a way that it doesnt. I was wrong, being poorly informed, and can now just get back into my Golem.
Battle BV Master
Bacon Never Dies
#17 - 2015-01-23 19:13:19 UTC
An MJD on a Rattle is wasted time, it takes fine without the range on any lvl 4 mission. Mine does Smash The Supplier on full spawn and aggro just fine.

MWD is just fine and np on a Rattle really.

A bit of bling (you are a mission runner after all), a few implants and you are talking 1500+ DPS upto 75km

[Rattlesnake, xD]
Federation Navy Drone Damage Amplifier
Federation Navy Drone Damage Amplifier
Federation Navy Drone Damage Amplifier
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System

Gist C-Type X-Large Shield Booster
Pith X-Type Thermic Dissipation Field
Pith X-Type Kinetic Deflection Field
Republic Fleet Target Painter
Federation Navy Omnidirectional Tracking Link, Optimal Range Script
Federation Navy Omnidirectional Tracking Link, Optimal Range Script
Gist C-Type 100MN Microwarpdrive

Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Cruise Missile
[empty high slot]

Large Semiconductor Memory Cell I
Large Semiconductor Memory Cell I
Large Semiconductor Memory Cell I

Bouncer II x2
Warden II x2
Hobgoblin II x5
Garde II x2

DPS: 1574 (Gardes) before implants, 1646 with Gecko. 1700+ with implants.

Switch Resists to mission, it gives about 800 DPS tank, easily enough. Honestly I end up buffer tanking (aka not pusling mus booster even once) 90% of the missions because things die before they hit me.

Trade MWD and TP for required anti EWAR. In my case SBs v Serpentis on missions where you dont move much aka The Blockade

I own all the Marauders, they are all good. I get the Golem love. But it won't come close to keeping up with a Rattle if Im honest.

Just always have Missles at the BS's and Drones on anything smaller. And turn the paper DPS into actual DPS...
Chris Winter
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse
The Curatores Veritatis Auxiliary
#18 - 2015-01-23 19:44:02 UTC
The Cyno NamedDino wrote:
My Golem has no problems putting out 1200+ DPS with torps and Valks...

Why on earth would you use valks on a golem? A flight of warriors will do more damage...

Honestly, I think you're just doing something wrong. I've never had any problems with the rattlesnake.
The Cyno NamedDino
State War Academy
Caldari State
#19 - 2015-01-23 19:48:09 UTC
It is technically two valks and a warrior to fill up the bandwidth. The Valks hold up better, and still hit frigs fine, and the DPS is actually the same/slightly better with the Valks.
Anneke Tersis
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#20 - 2015-01-23 19:53:58 UTC
To pump up damage you need T2 fury, but for these to be actually efficient you need max missile skills (like 5, no 4) and Rigor II. I've done the math, it's surprising: even on BS, T1 do more damage as soon as things are not maxed out.

Drop the sensor booster for a shield boost amplifier and use your 3rd rig to help your resists. Generally speaking the tank is not the strong suit of the RS, so it's even more important to take care of it.
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