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Awoxing is no more

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Concord Guy's Cousin
Doomheim
#661 - 2015-01-18 11:42:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Concord Guy's Cousin
Solops Crendraven wrote:
Concord Guy's Cousin wrote:
Solops Crendraven wrote:
Sladislov wrote:
Solops Crendraven wrote:
I read The Reddit Nothing new that we havnt covered here I did read Corps taxing ?Like we need more Taxes. Even if They took the Avoxing Out of the Game completely it wouldnt send millions of players to sign up up for a corp. Eves Core gameplay is trust no one the player base even Glouts with pride about this . maybe in the beginning when i started playingI wouldve fell for The trailer hype.now I just find myself logging in just to skill up for a Capital or Bling ship just waiting to be ganked or avoxed i dont mind if i didnt have to pay for like in Day Z I dont mind being griefed.I just dont want to be Multi Charged to play a Game And Get Avoxed. If It was F2P Or Didnt have to pay so much for ships and skills and wait so long .if a Titan or a Macherial Respawned in your Station After you pay for the Unlock once! It would be Fair at least if I get avoxed or ganked Ill have a Fresh new spawn waiting for me just like my clones. I dont wanna rely on a Player Driven Economy its Corrupt and rigged just like joining corps to only get avoxed.



i think

you need help
Lol You arnt the First and wont be the Last who will request this and i ant damn paying for a Shrink Either.
I took it to mean you need help with your basic command of written language, namely the correct use of capital letters and paragraphs.

And I Ant Ging to pay to go to college to learn Grammer Either Il just Hire You all Educated Folk to edit i for me IdeaI just had Deja Vu
The cost of us translating your gibberish to English will far exceed that of going back to school....

ISD LackOfFaith ~ "Your Catalyst was a hamster, and your Retriever smelt of elderberries"

NPC Forum Alt, because reasons.
Mara Pahrdi
The Order of Anoyia
#662 - 2015-01-18 11:52:48 UTC
Tim Timpson wrote:
Mara Pahrdi wrote:
Boom Boom Longtime wrote:
Regardless of the side of the coin, another ten years of Eve is surely what we'd all like to see happen?
That will depend on whether it is still EVE, the harsh, cold and unforgiviing universe I once subscribed to.
EVE has never been this. If it was, losing a ship would matter, isk would be harder to come by and every choice you made would need to be considered. EVE has never been harsh cold or unforgiving. That's a lie you tell yourself.

It used to be CCPs ad talk.

Looking back 4 years I used to regularly


  • get can flipped even in rookie systems
  • have ninja salvagers in my mission pockets
  • see pirates gank / extort miners


Sure, we've seen freigher bumping / ganking become sort of a thing. Code. is swarming some systems to gank / extort miners but I still have to see them in action somewhere I live. And I haven't seen a ninja salvager for a long time.

On the other side, newbies got an enormous buff income wise during the last years, miners especially, looking at the venture. Trit was at 1,5-2 isk/unit 4 years ago and a hulk was a 240m investment that could easily be lost to just three cats. So loss did matter back then.

I'm not in favour of mindless grind, but I'm not sure the direction the game has taken for the time being is a good one.

Remove standings and insurance.
Solops Crendraven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#663 - 2015-01-18 11:53:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Solops Crendraven
Ill Promise Ill send a check in the Mail .Anyway where were we ? Oh Ops Awoxing is no more and how it sucks for awoxers? no tears coming from these eyes but alligators .

Moving To Las Vegas Watch Me Play Poker! enter link description here
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#664 - 2015-01-18 11:54:14 UTC
Tim Timpson wrote:
Black Pedro wrote:
I've been mulling this over and it seems like tying this feature to a small tax would be a good idea. Corps lack tools to tune their level of risk so a small tax to CONCORD for the protection would be exactly this - a way to balance safety (risk) vs. profit (reward).
That would go against the reason for this change. This change is to encourage people to recruit noobs by making it safe to do so. Adding a punishment for turning this option on will just leave most people leaving it off and not recruiting noobs.


They're recruiting new players anyway.

That's how any awoxing happens in the first place.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Concord Guy's Cousin
Doomheim
#665 - 2015-01-18 11:58:54 UTC
Solops Crendraven wrote:
Ill Promise Ill send a check in the Mail .Anyway where where we ? Oh Ops Awoxing is no more and how it sucks for awoxers? no tears coming from these eyes but alligators .
Cheque? Who the hell uses those things these days? Cash only, cheques tend to be made of rubber.

ISD LackOfFaith ~ "Your Catalyst was a hamster, and your Retriever smelt of elderberries"

NPC Forum Alt, because reasons.
Mag's
Azn Empire
#666 - 2015-01-18 11:59:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Mag's
So tell the players of the worst case scenario, then release what was meant to be the idea all along?

CCP "Yea we're removing FF completely."

Player base "Dafuq!"

CCP "We listened, it's now a toggle switch."

Played base "Yea that's better and we'll live with it."

Nah, I'm just being silly.... Or am I?
I still think there should be a tax associated with it, when it's active. You are after all, asking for Concord's assistance.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#667 - 2015-01-18 12:06:37 UTC
Mara Pahrdi wrote:
Tim Timpson wrote:
Mara Pahrdi wrote:
Boom Boom Longtime wrote:
Regardless of the side of the coin, another ten years of Eve is surely what we'd all like to see happen?
That will depend on whether it is still EVE, the harsh, cold and unforgiviing universe I once subscribed to.
EVE has never been this. If it was, losing a ship would matter, isk would be harder to come by and every choice you made would need to be considered. EVE has never been harsh cold or unforgiving. That's a lie you tell yourself.

It used to be CCPs ad talk.

Looking back 4 years I used to regularly


  • get can flipped even in rookie systems
  • have ninja salvagers in my mission pockets
  • see pirates gank / extort miners


Sure, we've seen freigher bumping / ganking become sort of a thing. Code. is swarming some systems to gank / extort miners but I still have to see them in action somewhere I live. And I haven't seen a ninja salvager for a long time.

On the other side, newbies got an enormous buff income wise during the last years, miners especially, looking at the venture. Trit was at 1,5-2 isk/unit 4 years ago and a hulk was a 240m investment that could easily be lost to just three cats. So loss did matter back then.

I'm not in favour of mindless grind, but I'm not sure the direction the game has taken for the time being is a good one.


I do agree with all of this.

Yes, it would be great to celebrate a 2nd decade of EVE.

However I do also agree with the point that it also really matters with how EVE will change over that time. I severly doubt it will make the 20 if they make it too soft. Does it means they shouldnt change stuff. Not at all, but for them to stay true to their game and existing player who have been with them for many years, they have to also take into consideration that both sides of the coin should be happy, not just one.

Make EVE too harsh, you will lose people.
Make EVE too soft, you will lose people.
It is finding that nice point of equilibrium that has to be found. Some safety for those that want it, to some degree. The option of a more shotgun diplomacy approach for those that want that.

In corp friendlyness is all fine at certain costs. Which, that is imo up for debate.

Im all for the idea of a small monetary cost to have FF turned off. The example of 50mil for the option each month is great imo. It is cheap and easily done through a bill each month. Or some form of extra tax or something, just at such an amount that it pays off to be in a player corp yet doesnt make it impossible to make some form of profit.

Or they should make wardec more of a fixed thing. So no evading a wardec as easily as they have it now to compensate for the extra in corp safety.

Also agree that in some cases, ganking should have a bit more consequences.

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club
Solecist Project
#668 - 2015-01-18 12:07:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Solecist Project
Concord Guy's Cousin wrote:
Solops Crendraven wrote:
Ill Promise Ill send a check in the Mail .Anyway where where we ? Oh Ops Awoxing is no more and how it sucks for awoxers? no tears coming from these eyes but alligators .
Cheque? Who the hell uses those things these days? Cash only, cheques tend to be made of rubber.

He's writing like that deliberately, to obfuscate who he is.
Follow his posts through the threads.
I am cheering him continuously for his first class trolling.

The troll-thread he made was a piece of art. So many pages,
so many people fell for it and I was the only one calling him out. xD



Mag's wrote:
So tell the players of the worst case scenario, then release what was meant to be the idea all along?

CCP "Yea we're removing FF completely."

Player base "Dafuq!"

CCP "We listened, it's now a toggle switch."

Played base "Yea that's better and we'll live with it."

Nah, I'm just being silly.... Or am I?

That's not a conspiracy, that's how you do proper crowd control.

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
Solecist Project
#669 - 2015-01-18 12:12:20 UTC
Mara Pahrdi wrote:
On the other side, newbies got an enormous buff income wise during the last years, miners especially, looking at the venture.
No they didn't.
When mineral prices go up, prices of everything built with them go up.

In regards to value, miners always earn the same.
It's just a higher number, looking better to the clueless fools.


No miner earns more or less when mineral prices go up or down,
because prices of everything else adapt to it.

Of course there's a transition period, but that's neglectable.
Prices of items adapt to the prices of minerals.


I learned that from one of the best miners out there.

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#670 - 2015-01-18 12:13:17 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Tim Timpson wrote:
Black Pedro wrote:
I've been mulling this over and it seems like tying this feature to a small tax would be a good idea. Corps lack tools to tune their level of risk so a small tax to CONCORD for the protection would be exactly this - a way to balance safety (risk) vs. profit (reward).
That would go against the reason for this change. This change is to encourage people to recruit noobs by making it safe to do so. Adding a punishment for turning this option on will just leave most people leaving it off and not recruiting noobs.


They're recruiting new players anyway.

That's how any awoxing happens in the first place.


Tim...citation please that is done for that reason...


Still waiting on proof that is the reason.

P.s. new players are already safe from grieving by the new player protection rules.

Also, I have recruited MANY new players over the course of years. None of them were Awoxers nor have been awoxed.

It is the corps security that makes that happen. It is quite easy to spot an awoxer.
CCP just added this for the corps who suck at doing their own security.

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club
J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#671 - 2015-01-18 12:16:03 UTC
Solecist Project wrote:
Mara Pahrdi wrote:
On the other side, newbies got an enormous buff income wise during the last years, miners especially, looking at the venture.
No they didn't.
When mineral prices go up, prices of everything built with them go up.

In regards to value, miners always earn the same.
It's just a higher number, looking better to the clueless fools.


No miner earns more or less when mineral prices go up or down,
because prices of everything else adapt to it.

Of course there's a transition period, but that's neglectable.
Prices of items adapt to the prices of minerals.


I learned that from one of the best miners out there.


The only difference, miners in general dont have a high cost monthly.

Some mining crystals when using T2 strips.
Occasional replacement ship.
Some costs regarding shipment to market.

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club
Solops Crendraven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#672 - 2015-01-18 12:22:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Solops Crendraven
Solecist Project wrote:
Concord Guy's Cousin wrote:
Solops Crendraven wrote:
Ill Promise Ill send a check in the Mail .Anyway where where we ? Oh Ops Awoxing is no more and how it sucks for awoxers? no tears coming from these eyes but alligators .
Cheque? Who the hell uses those things these days? Cash only, cheques tend to be made of rubber.

He's writing like that deliberately, to obfuscate who he is.
Follow his posts through the threads.
I am cheering him continuously for his first class trolling.

The troll-thread he made was a piece of art. So many pages,
so many people fell for it and I was the only one calling him out. xD



Mag's wrote:
So tell the players of the worst case scenario, then release what was meant to be the idea all along?

CCP "Yea we're removing FF completely."

Player base "Dafuq!"

CCP "We listened, it's now a toggle switch."

Played base "Yea that's better and we'll live with it."

Nah, I'm just being silly.... Or am I?

That's not a conspiracy, that's how you do proper crowd control.


You Know I Love You. However How can i Convince You im not a Troll Im the Only one of the few who has genuinely and Honestly followed the Forum rules http://community.eveonline.com/support/policies/forum-moderation-policyBy Sticking to objective of the OPs Thread Awoxing no more while a great % has tryed to derail ( Off-topic posting ) Ops Thread.

Moving To Las Vegas Watch Me Play Poker! enter link description here
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#673 - 2015-01-18 13:06:27 UTC
J'Poll wrote:
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
I want to see them try to spin their way out of it, after they slung so much bullshit in this thread for page after page.

They don't have to, because they can just fall back on the "oh well, it's what the majority wants anyway, so it's a good change" argument.


Citation needed.

You keep talking about "majority wants it" but never show factual proof of more then 51% of all the players asking for this change.

I'd be willing to wager a significant sum of money that an offocial poll would show results of somewhere 75% versus 25% for anti/pro anything pvp-related, respectively.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
Mara Pahrdi
The Order of Anoyia
#674 - 2015-01-18 13:44:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Mara Pahrdi
Solecist Project wrote:
Mara Pahrdi wrote:
On the other side, newbies got an enormous buff income wise during the last years, miners especially, looking at the venture.
No they didn't.

Oh yes, they did. There's more than just mineral prices to it, believe me.

Let's take the Gallente newbie miner back in 2010.

He started off in a Navitas. Natural progression was the Exequror, a mining cruiser back then. Cost about 6 Million isk. Go mine in a Navitas and add 20% yield. Compare to the venture. You get triple the isk for your trit now, but the typical cruiser only costs 1,5x of what it did back then.

Now you go mining in the Exquror. If I remember correctly, training for a Ret back then took short of 30 days without proper implants, which you cannot afford, since you're new. So 30 days of mining in a cruiser with about 1000 m3 cargo expanded, if you stick to mining.

A Ret was about 10-12m back then, which is about right (x2,7). But compare the venture's yield and ease of use to that of a mining cruiser. Pro for the Ret of the past: It took two dessies to get it down Blink above 0.5. Con: It had way less ore space.

Still, once you were in a Ret, it started to take off somewhat. But it was a tedium to get in your first (and only) viable Exhumer: The Hulk. It used to be at 180m, but with Hulkageddon running twice a year it took off to 240m.

You have tanky Barges / Exhumers with little loss in yield now, much reduced training times and most of all the Venture to start you off on your mining career.

I'm not complaining about it. All I'm saying is, that due to many changes in different parts of the game, miners have an easier start now than 4-5 years ago. And they can recuperate harsh losses much easier than they used to. Getting your only Ret blown up back then set you back considerably. Today it's just an inconvenience.

So a newbie corp losing their mining fleet to an awoxer today? Shrug. It sucks, but **** happens. On to a new start. Back in 2010 that really did hurt.

Remove standings and insurance.
Tim Timpson
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#675 - 2015-01-18 13:45:51 UTC
Mara Pahrdi wrote:
It used to be CCPs ad talk.
Well yeah, it's always been the marketing but it's never actually been true. EVE has always been easy, and while yes people have been able to interfere with you, there's really nothing about the game that makes it harsh and unforgiving. Ships are as expendable as ammo in other games and the ability to run so many alts give you the opportunity to do whatever you want and not suffer any long term consequences.

Mara Pahrdi wrote:
Looking back 4 years I used to regularly


  • get can flipped even in rookie systems
  • have ninja salvagers in my mission pockets
  • see pirates gank / extort miners
With the exception of rookie systems all these things still happen, you just see them less as time goes on. The game hasn't changed, but the way you play and your perception has.

Mara Pahrdi wrote:
On the other side, newbies got an enormous buff income wise during the last years, miners especially, looking at the venture. Trit was at 1,5-2 isk/unit 4 years ago and a hulk was a 240m investment that could easily be lost to just three cats. So loss did matter back then.
Loss has ever mattered, isk has always been easy to come by. These days the numbers are all a bit higher, but the actual value of the isk much different. 4 years ago hulks were 150m by the way. This is my 10th year in EVE and honestly nothing much has changed. People still talk about how hardcore the game is while we sit around drinking and playing playstation while passively earning enough isk to pay for subs. I don't know many games I can excel at by not playing.
Tim Timpson
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#676 - 2015-01-18 13:46:56 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Tim Timpson wrote:
Black Pedro wrote:
I've been mulling this over and it seems like tying this feature to a small tax would be a good idea. Corps lack tools to tune their level of risk so a small tax to CONCORD for the protection would be exactly this - a way to balance safety (risk) vs. profit (reward).
That would go against the reason for this change. This change is to encourage people to recruit noobs by making it safe to do so. Adding a punishment for turning this option on will just leave most people leaving it off and not recruiting noobs.


They're recruiting new players anyway.

That's how any awoxing happens in the first place.
The corps that recruit newbies now are terrible corps, which is why they get awoxed. A competent CEO will want to vet their recruits which you can't do to a newbie.
J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#677 - 2015-01-18 13:47:22 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
J'Poll wrote:
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
I want to see them try to spin their way out of it, after they slung so much bullshit in this thread for page after page.

They don't have to, because they can just fall back on the "oh well, it's what the majority wants anyway, so it's a good change" argument.


Citation needed.

You keep talking about "majority wants it" but never show factual proof of more then 51% of all the players asking for this change.

I'd be willing to wager a significant sum of money that an offocial poll would show results of somewhere 75% versus 25% for anti/pro anything pvp-related, respectively.


And...still waiting on proof to your claim that is a thing a majority has asked for.

Imaginary possible future poll results you expect to happen dont count.

Mainly cause it something you small brain makes up.

Only thing I ask for is you giving your so called proof in the form of an official poll result by CCP.

You would be amazed how little people would ask for this change.

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

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J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#678 - 2015-01-18 13:49:14 UTC
Tim Timpson wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Tim Timpson wrote:
Black Pedro wrote:
I've been mulling this over and it seems like tying this feature to a small tax would be a good idea. Corps lack tools to tune their level of risk so a small tax to CONCORD for the protection would be exactly this - a way to balance safety (risk) vs. profit (reward).
That would go against the reason for this change. This change is to encourage people to recruit noobs by making it safe to do so. Adding a punishment for turning this option on will just leave most people leaving it off and not recruiting noobs.


They're recruiting new players anyway.

That's how any awoxing happens in the first place.
The corps that recruit newbies now are terrible corps, which is why they get awoxed. A competent CEO will want to vet their recruits which you can't do to a newbie.



Tim.

Im still waiting on your proof people awox new players.


Almosy all awox that happens is against loot pinatas flown by older people.

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club
Dave stark
#679 - 2015-01-18 13:52:04 UTC
Mara Pahrdi wrote:
newbies got an enormous buff income wise during the last years, miners especially, looking at the venture. Trit was at 1,5-2 isk/unit 4 years ago and a hulk was a 240m investment that could easily be lost to just three cats.


the price of minerals has **** all to do with the venture.

4 years go we still had drone poop and good reprocessing yields and it was hulk or gtfo since every other mining ship was borderline useless except maybe the retriever until you could fly a hulk.

4 years ago, prices were different not because of the venture, but because there was only really 1 ship you could mine in, and there were a myriad of other ways to get minerals.
Dave stark
#680 - 2015-01-18 13:54:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Dave Stark
Tim Timpson wrote:
A competent CEO will want to vet their recruits which you can't do to a newbie.


sure you can.
also this is why people have training corps etc.

if people don't want to put the effort in to screen applicants, awoxing is exactly what they deserve.

tip: if the new guy's only ship is a gnosis... it's probably an awoxer.