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Awoxing is no more

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Tim Timpson
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#221 - 2015-01-16 16:10:18 UTC
J'Poll wrote:
Most of the experienced players live in high-sec.
Citation needed.

J'Poll wrote:
Most of the experienced players would move there to carebear to their heart's contempt.
OK, so you're saying the most experienced players in the game would halve their income to avoid being ganked and awoxed? I don't believe that to be entirely accurate.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#222 - 2015-01-16 16:16:21 UTC
Mag's wrote:
What we have is new devs, making changes to the core of the game.

It's happening, so I'll live with it. But it should be implemented differently.

Make it an option and make it taxable if activated.

I'd have no problem with that what-so-ever.

It's like "Risk vs Reward" but sideways sort of.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#223 - 2015-01-16 16:20:08 UTC
Tim Timpson wrote:
J'Poll wrote:
3 Letters:

R
V
B
RVB don't use awoxing for their war, they use wardecs and thus would not be affected by this change. Even so I don't remember seeing much publicity from them. I've certainly not seen them in the news headlines like I have with null battles. Perhaps they make some EVE news headlines, but then so does a lot of completely irrelevant activities.


Uhm

As usual, whiners leave out the part where it is clear they are wrong


You said there is NO real high-sec PVP.

I proved your wrong, trying to edit it out doesn't make you less wrong.

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

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Anton Geiker
Unknown Space Broadcasting
#224 - 2015-01-16 16:20:23 UTC
Comparing this change to "Trammel" is stupid. The pvp in eve still resemble UO (Felucca) pvp.

Removing the possibility to harass new players with no effort what so ever is good for the game. As someone else pointed out awoxxing now, problematicly(sp?) so, requires actual brain cells.
Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite
Safety.
#225 - 2015-01-16 16:21:50 UTC
Basil Pupkin wrote:
I want everything for free!!!
I am not sure why you think every corp with a couple of players should be able to have a POS. If you want to put something up and call it your own in this competitive multiplayer sandbox then you are better ready to defend it. This works as intended and there are POSs all over highsec, so it seams there are corps who manage to do what you seam to have a problem with.

Evil RatKid
J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#226 - 2015-01-16 16:21:58 UTC
Tim Timpson wrote:
J'Poll wrote:
Most of the experienced players live in high-sec.
Citation needed.

J'Poll wrote:
Most of the experienced players would move there to carebear to their heart's contempt.
OK, so you're saying the most experienced players in the game would halve their income to avoid being ganked and awoxed? I don't believe that to be entirely accurate.


LOL.

Not at the PC now, so can't look it up. But the majority of the EVE population lives in high-sec.

p.s. It is those vets in high-sec that are affected by Awoxing when they fly their pimp fit battleship, not Mr New Guy in his venture / Level 1 mission frigate.

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

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Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#227 - 2015-01-16 16:22:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Destiny Corrupted
Basil Pupkin wrote:
J'Poll wrote:
Hmz.

Set up POS to have a reinforce timer that assist you in the defense...easy, 2 minutes tops to set up
Set up POS so that it can defend itself (high-sec doesn't have capitals).

Set up a trap for grief deccers to catch them unsuspected with their pants down.
HIre (god forbit, I"m swearing, carebears only want to see their wallet grow, not shrink) mercs to help defend yourself. Hell, CCP actually gave you the ability to easily hire / receive help as a defending party in a war.


p.s.

If, as you claim, grief deccers don't fight when they can't win. Make sure your corp is so strong they won't attack and it actually won't affect you.

Hell, in a previous corp. We just ran missions together when under war or mined together under war...You do know that strength through numbers works in EVE too.

But, sorry, it will hurt your max efficiency goal...I know, it sucks. But less ISK/hour is still better then no ISK/hour.


Reinforce timers do nothing, as if there's defense, grief deccers won't show up after reinforcing your POS. You just lose stront for no benefit, no gameplay, nothing.
Defending POS modules will just get farmed. If my goal is to entertain the grief deccers, sure. Also sure it's not my goal.

Trap them... and fall in their trap for the trap setters once they call in pals for free kills on my "trap". No thank you.
Hiring mercs does NOTHING as the grief deccers won't show up or come in wrecking and wreck both you and mercs. At the same time you and mercs have to stay on your toes not playing the game because some monkey in a grief dec corp had 50 mil ISK. (and you spent at least 500 mil on useless mercs, grats). Once again, no gameplay.

Going through PITA of corp dropping is the only rational answer to grief dec - there are just no alternatives where there's anything you can do. You either fleet up and get wrecked or you fleet up and get ignored. Both of those are stupid, pointless, and boring enough to justify 24 hours of pain required to drop corp. This needs changes and NOT stick-like ones - I will not undock as long as there's just those 2 options waiting.

As someone whose primary activity in the game is non-gank, non-awox high-sec pvp, who runs his own mercenary corporation, and has been a member in one way or another of most of the mercenary corporations listed in the 'merc contracts' channel, I can tell you for a fact that you have no earthly clue of what you're talking about.

Mag's wrote:
What we have is new devs, making changes to the core of the game.

It's happening, so I'll live with it. But it should be implemented differently.

Make it an option and make it taxable if activated.

This. If they at least attached a cost to this new safety mechanism, there would be some give and take. But they won't. This is a one-sided implementation, like the majority of others have been, and will be.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#228 - 2015-01-16 16:23:36 UTC
Mag's wrote:
What we have is new devs, making changes to the core of the game.

It's happening, so I'll live with it. But it should be implemented differently.

Make it an option and make it taxable if activated.


I would love that idea.

If in corp fire is turned off...then 50% of income is put into some form of ISK Sink (say, payment to CONCORD to keep them safe).

This way, you have more safety, for less reward...

p.s. the 50% is just my given value, could be any reasonable number.

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Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

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Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#229 - 2015-01-16 16:25:27 UTC
J'Poll wrote:


Why, because the vast majority of PvE players is completely risk-adverse.
They rather spent twice as long in low paying safety then better ISK for a bit more risk.


It's not risk averse it's common sense. If you are spending some time to get money for any activity in EVE, taking 2 hours to do it instead of 1 is still time much better invested in many case because it would also cost you 1 more hours to grind back the ship you lose by taking the risk route.

People just figured out they come out way ahead on their time. Do you expect people to not min/max the grind part of the game?
J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#230 - 2015-01-16 16:26:42 UTC
Anton Geiker wrote:
Comparing this change to "Trammel" is stupid. The pvp in eve still resemble UO (Felucca) pvp.

Removing the possibility to harass new players with no effort what so ever is good for the game. As someone else pointed out awoxxing now, problematicly(sp?) so, requires actual brain cells.


Only flaws:

A. Awoxers don't target new players. They target players where they can gain some money, which is always the more experienced one flying in a pimped out ship.


B. Rookies are already protected by a seperate class or rules.

See here (specifically in the red banner) and here


So, please, try again.

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club
Black Pedro
Mine.
#231 - 2015-01-16 16:27:36 UTC
Anton Geiker wrote:
Removing the possibility to harass new players with no effort what so ever is good for the game. As someone else pointed out awoxxing now, problematicly(sp?) so, requires actual brain cells.

Too bad that is not what this change does. It just makes established players with assets worth awoxing safer.

New players can still be recruited by a "reverse safari" corporation with the flag turned off and destroyed for fun.

At best this change makes good highsec corps feel safer and more likely to take on new players. At worst, it enables scammers to set up "newbie farming corporations" and spam invites to fill their cages with helpless new players to exploit with 75% tax rates.

It will be interesting to see how this shakes out.

The 8 Golden Rules of Eve

Why Do They Gank?
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#232 - 2015-01-16 16:27:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Destiny Corrupted
Frostys Virpio wrote:
J'Poll wrote:


Why, because the vast majority of PvE players is completely risk-adverse.
They rather spent twice as long in low paying safety then better ISK for a bit more risk.


It's not risk averse it's common sense. If you are spending some time to get money for any activity in EVE, taking 2 hours to do it instead of 1 is still time much better invested in many case because it would also cost you 1 more hours to grind back the ship you lose by taking the risk route.

People just figured out they come out way ahead on their time. Do you expect people to not min/max the grind part of the game?

This just serves to reinforce the argument that high-sec is extremely imbalanced with regard to risk versus reward. The rewards need to be drawn down significantly, not just a little bit.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#233 - 2015-01-16 16:28:15 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
J'Poll wrote:


Why, because the vast majority of PvE players is completely risk-adverse.
They rather spent twice as long in low paying safety then better ISK for a bit more risk.


It's not risk averse it's common sense. If you are spending some time to get money for any activity in EVE, taking 2 hours to do it instead of 1 is still time much better invested in many case because it would also cost you 1 more hours to grind back the ship you lose by taking the risk route.

People just figured out they come out way ahead on their time. Do you expect people to not min/max the grind part of the game?



Risk which easily can be avoided.

Again, the only losses I had, was in PvP engagement.
I haven't lost a ship in a PvE enviroment in over 3.5 years, which both included High-sec stuff AND null-sec stuff (hell, I never lost a ship in null while doing PvE in total)

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

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Basil Pupkin
Republic Military School
#234 - 2015-01-16 16:29:29 UTC
J'Poll wrote:
Anton Geiker wrote:
Comparing this change to "Trammel" is stupid. The pvp in eve still resemble UO (Felucca) pvp.

Removing the possibility to harass new players with no effort what so ever is good for the game. As someone else pointed out awoxxing now, problematicly(sp?) so, requires actual brain cells.


Only flaws:

A. Awoxers don't target new players. They target players where they can gain some money, which is always the more experienced one flying in a pimped out ship.


B. Rookies are already protected by a seperate class or rules.

See here (specifically in the red banner) and here


So, please, try again.


A. New players aren't being recruited and helped due to easymode awox threat. This change is for them.
B. Rookies are only protected in NPC corps, which have poor retention, and force people into solo play activity (which are mostly PvE you cry about).
C. Awox isn't getting removed, stupidly easy awox is. Removing stupidly easy things from eve is the way to go.

Being teh freightergankbear automatically puts you below missionbear and minerbear in carebear hierarchy.

If you're about to make "this will make eve un-eve" argument, odds are you are defending some utterly horrible mechanics against a good change.
Tim Timpson
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#235 - 2015-01-16 16:36:25 UTC
J'Poll wrote:
LOL.

Not at the PC now, so can't look it up. But the majority of the EVE population lives in high-sec.

p.s. It is those vets in high-sec that are affected by Awoxing when they fly their pimp fit battleship, not Mr New Guy in his venture / Level 1 mission frigate.
Most characters are in highsec. What you said was Most experienced players. I have 4 times as many characters in highsec as I have in nullsec, yet I live and play in nullsec. My highsec characters are all alts either in training or for trade/hauling, etc all in NPC corps. You can show me a graph that shows more characters in highsec, but that won't mean that "Most of the experienced players live in high-sec".

New guys are affected by awoxing as an decent corp will reject them as they may be an awoxer. This means newer players only really get accepted to bait corps or ones run by some lunatic who will undoubtedly get the corp robbed at some point. The awox change means that newer players can safely be recruited, which is good for news players. It's pretty simple really.
J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#236 - 2015-01-16 16:38:49 UTC  |  Edited by: J'Poll
Tim Timpson wrote:
[quote=J'Poll]
New guys are affected by awoxing as an decent corp will reject them as they may be an awoxer. This means newer players only really get accepted to bait corps or ones run by some lunatic who will undoubtedly get the corp robbed at some point. The awox change means that newer players can safely be recruited, which is good for news players. It's pretty simple really.


If a corp rejects a new guy just cause he might be an Awoxer...it is NOT a decent corp

So, what you are saying...EVE Uni is ran by lunatics. Nice way of complimenting someone.


P.s.

A corp that is interested in new players, recruits them now already.
A corp that does not recruit new players now, will not recruit new players after the change. As they are not interested in new players.

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

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ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#237 - 2015-01-16 16:40:17 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
I have removed some rule breaking posts and those quoting them. As always I let some edge cases stay.
Please people, keep it on topic and above all civil!

The Rules:

4. Personal attacks are prohibited.

Commonly known as flaming, personal attacks are posts that are designed to personally berate or insult another forum user. Posts of this nature are not beneficial to the community spirit that CCP promote and as such they will not be tolerated.

5. Trolling is prohibited.

Trolling is a defined as a post that is deliberately designed for the purpose of angering and insulting other players in an attempt to incite retaliation or an emotional response. Posts of this nature are disruptive, often abusive and do not contribute to the sense of community that CCP promote.

27. Off-topic posting is prohibited.

Off-topic posting is permitted within reason, as sometimes a single comment may color or lighten the tone of discussion. However, excessive posting of off-topic remarks in an attempt to derail a thread may result in the thread being locked, or a forum warning being issued to the off-topic poster.

Thread unlocked.

ISD Ezwal Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#238 - 2015-01-16 17:07:02 UTC
J'Poll wrote:
Tim Timpson wrote:
[quote=J'Poll]
New guys are affected by awoxing as an decent corp will reject them as they may be an awoxer. This means newer players only really get accepted to bait corps or ones run by some lunatic who will undoubtedly get the corp robbed at some point. The awox change means that newer players can safely be recruited, which is good for news players. It's pretty simple really.


If a corp rejects a new guy just cause he might be an Awoxer...it is NOT a decent corp


Nonetheless, it's still a new player being told to stay in his NPC corp.

That's what CCP is trying to fix. And what the elites have been whining about forever.

So CCP comes up with a solution to give corps an incentive to accept new players and clear out the NPC corps and suddenly it's a bad move?

No one thinks in here, do they? They find the worst possible outlier in any situation and run with it. Think people. Just think for a change before mashing your keyboard into dust.

Mr Epeen Cool
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#239 - 2015-01-16 17:07:34 UTC
J'Poll wrote:
A corp that is interested in new players, recruits them now already.
A corp that does not recruit new players now, will not recruit new players after the change. As they are not interested in new players.

Pretty much this.

This whole thing is just CCP testing the water for much bigger changes with regard to ganking and war mechanics down the line. There's nowhere near the amount of complains about awoxing as there are against wars, yet CCP is treating awoxing as the bigger issue right now. It's entirely nonsensical, unless there's an agenda.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#240 - 2015-01-16 17:08:21 UTC
Mr Epeen wrote:
J'Poll wrote:
Tim Timpson wrote:
[quote=J'Poll]
New guys are affected by awoxing as an decent corp will reject them as they may be an awoxer. This means newer players only really get accepted to bait corps or ones run by some lunatic who will undoubtedly get the corp robbed at some point. The awox change means that newer players can safely be recruited, which is good for news players. It's pretty simple really.


If a corp rejects a new guy just cause he might be an Awoxer...it is NOT a decent corp


Nonetheless, it's still a new player being told to stay in his NPC corp.

That's what CCP is trying to fix. And what the elites have been whining about forever.

So CCP comes up with a solution to give corps an incentive to accept new players and clear out the NPC corps and suddenly it's a bad move?

No one thinks in here, do they? They find the worst possible outlier in any situation and run with it. Think people. Just think for a change before mashing your keyboard into dust.

Mr Epeen Cool

They can fix that by removing the NPC corporation mechanic.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted