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Rokh Sniper Fitting?
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Kaos Itinen
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1 - 2015-01-15 10:17:37 UTC
Hey everyone, so I have a couple different ideas for a fit, but the following is what I think I've come up with so far. A lot of talking to people in the community, and a lot of researching. Let me know what you think of it so far.

High

- 8x 425mm Prototype Gauss Gun

Med

- 2x Large Shield Extender 2
- 2x Adaptive Invulnerability Field 2
- 1x Sensor Booster 2
1x Large Micro Jump Drive

Low

- 1x Damage Control 2
- 1x Tracking Enhancer 2
- 3x Magnetic Field Stabilizer 2

Rig

- 3x Large Core Defense Field Extender 2

So, that is what I have so far. I also have read about Signature tanking, and that some Snipers have reduced there signature to a point to where you don't even need a lot of this tanky equipment at all. Would it be possible to signatue tank with a Rokh? Still new to the game, so I have no clue at all, just reading and learning.
Faren Shalni
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#2 - 2015-01-15 10:34:33 UTC
You cant sig tank a battleship. its too big

Really all battleships rely on actual tank to survive.

with regards to the fit what is the desired purpose of the ship? pve, small gang pvp, fleet pvp?

So Much Space
Kaos Itinen
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#3 - 2015-01-15 10:41:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Kaos Itinen
The fit that I listed is for pvp. I will be with a small gang, with a drank for tackle, and 1, possibly 2 more. I'll be long range, so I'll be alone. The previous build idea I was going with can be found in the following link.

https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Rokh_(Fitting)

Towards the bottom, where it says buffer tank, with the 350 mm guns. The goal is to be tanky if anyone does get to me, having ECM drones to hopefully help me get out. Though I've been advised that as a Sniper, having the MJD is pretty mandatory. So it appears that the build in that link that I was looking at originally isn't viable for pvp, at least from what I've seen.

A question about not being able to ECM tank with a battleship; is there any point to trying to reduce the signature then? Would it be beneficial to add modules that would do this?
Faren Shalni
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#4 - 2015-01-15 10:59:49 UTC
Kaos Itinen wrote:
The fit that I listed is for pvp. I will be with a small gang, with a drank for tackle, and 1, possibly 2 more. I'll be long range, so I'll be alone. The previous build idea I was going with can be found in the following link.

https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Rokh_(Fitting)

Towards the bottom, where it says buffer tank, with the 350 mm guns. The goal is to be tanky if anyone does get to me, having ECM drones to hopefully help me get out. Though I've been advised that as a Sniper, having the MJD is pretty mandatory. So it appears that the build in that link that I was looking at originally isn't viable for pvp, at least from what I've seen.

A question about not being able to ECM tank with a battleship; is there any point to trying to reduce the signature then? Would it be beneficial to add modules that would do this?


Relying on ECM drones is not that advisable as they are chance based. you really want to use a faster ship. Apart from niche fits and good piloting, battleships are not so great on the small gang level.

If you are wanting to snipe with rails you may want to look into the Naga as its more maneuverable and has similar range however be advised that 150km + you enemy can combat probe and warp directly to you.

That sniper rokh fit is defiantly a fleet fit.

The only way to decrease signature is to use links and drugs. there are no modules or rigs that I am aware of that can do it

So Much Space
Kaos Itinen
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#5 - 2015-01-15 11:16:37 UTC
What I was reading about what making yourself more or so invisible to combat probes. I just don't really get how this is done, the idea behind it. Could someone explain?
Agent Unknown
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#6 - 2015-01-15 13:45:54 UTC
Kaos Itinen wrote:
What I was reading about what making yourself more or so invisible to combat probes. I just don't really get how this is done, the idea behind it. Could someone explain?


Stacking ECCM will make it harder for people to probe you as higher sensor strength makes it require more probe strength to get a lock, but with so many bonused ships around and the high strengths they can attain, it's not worth gimping your fit in order to stack sensor strength.

Plus, there are plenty of covert ops that can provide warpins by either slowboating to you or otherwise, so...yeah.
ChromeStriker
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#7 - 2015-01-15 13:49:44 UTC
T1 rigs not T2... too expensive for what you want

No Worries
Maeltstome
Ten Thousand Days
#8 - 2015-01-15 13:50:41 UTC
Stop going down the Eve-WIki rabbit hole. Ending up with a sig-tanking-unprobeable-sniping-pvp-buffer tanked-rokh seems like the result of such a journey.

I know it's tempting to click all the little links, but most of the time it's best to focus on other peoples loss-mails and youtube videos.
Bronson Hughes
The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration
#9 - 2015-01-15 14:54:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Bronson Hughes
To answer your questions:

1. No, you generally cannot sig-tank a battleship against sub-capital weapons. Especially not Caldari battleships.
2. Using ECM modules on ships without ECM bonuses is generally ill-advised. This instance is no exception.
3. ECM drones can be effective, but in a situation like this if you're tackled you're most likely tackled by something like a 'ceptor, in which case a flight of Warrior IIs would be far more effective.
4. The difficulty in probing you out is based on the skills/equipment of the prober (which you have no influence over) and the ratio of your sensor strength to your signature radius. By boosting your sensor strength using ECCM modules, you become harder to probe down. The goal is to get your sensor strength up to 1.08 times your signature radius. Given the base stats on most battleships, this is impossible to attain.

And to offer some suggestions:

1. Take a look at the Naga. It out-performs the Rokh damage-wise, shoots at the same ranges, and is far less expensive. You can't tank it (beyond range tanking) so you will have to rely on your superior range and mobility (relative to a Rokh) to not get popped. And, since it is so much less expensive, they're easier to replace. I use a Naga fit with T2 guns to snipe at structures from 250km (which is the max range you can). Very handy.
2. If you're just doing small-gang stuff, don't worry about combat probers getting a warp-in to you. Most gangs big enough to have a dedicated cloaky combat prober will be too large for the fleet you're describing to handle anyways, and at the ranges it sounds like you're talking about any CovOps ship could get a warpin on you in a few minutes anyways.
3. T2 rigs are generally an order of magnitude more expensive than their T1 counterparts. Sometimes more. Be careful relying on them in fits unless you know they're affordable.

EDIT: Typos.

Relatively Notorious By Association

My Many Misadventures

I predicted FAUXs
Kaos Itinen
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#10 - 2015-01-15 21:30:15 UTC
Thanks for all the help everyone! I did some more reading last night, and found that it does seem to be quite impossible to sig tank with a battleship. Besides that then, what do you think of the build I posted for the Rokh? I've been told by some to forgo most all tankyness for sniper modules and training; then I've also been told to do the opposite and make myself a super tank. Though from the people I've spoken with I've been told it's really bad to run 3 Invuln fields, that they have really bad stacking penalties, and it does seem like kind of a waste. Any ideas and thoughts on this? Thanks to everyone here, you are all very helpful.
Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2015-01-15 23:00:39 UTC
Play to it's strengths, your job is to hit things while nothing can hit you. You shouldn't even be thinking about tank because you shouldn't get hit.

Art of Explosions
Kaos Itinen
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#12 - 2015-01-16 04:30:53 UTC
So, I think I've decided to go with the following.

http://eve.battleclinic.com/loadout/71852-Rokh-Rock-Buffer-Sniper.html

I could swich the rigs for T1, if they are too expensive, seeing ans they don't increase what they do by a ton and are a lot more expensive. The Drones will be ECM drones, to have that possibility of helping if needed in that type of situation. Thing is, I'm still really new to this game and don't know if this will work out, or if I should add more sniper gear to it. Like, should I put some tracking computers on it? Or will the tracking be fine? I know with the TC I can run scripts and stuff. Still very new to this and learning. Thanks for all the advice!
RavenPaine
RaVeN Alliance
#13 - 2015-01-16 06:35:26 UTC
So here are some thoughts:

For a snipe fit you need a target painter. Meta IV is great.
You want a sensor booster for faster lock.
Minimal tank
Tracking and damage mods, a balance of them, 2 and 2 is good.
Damage rigs
Mobility to gtfo. Almost every ship in game can outrun a Rokh, so you need to be able to warp to different positions if you stay on field.

Sig tanking a BS is silly. An experienced probe pilot can catch interceptors in 2 scans. Your BS is cake and your location is already known. (Not saying you're silly, just the concept)

If you have tackle on the field, THEN a well tanked blaster Rokh is awesome. But it is up close and personal.


Kaos Itinen
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#14 - 2015-01-16 06:39:51 UTC
A Target Painter? Don't they have a much shorter range? If I'm out at 180 to 250 KM, they Target Painter wouldn't have near that reach would it? I've thought the same thing but when I search for it I can never find a sniper loadout that uses one that is at this range. Most of them are close range and are using 250 mm guns, not the bigger ones. If this works I'll more then consider the target painters, I just didn't think they would have the range needed.
RavenPaine
RaVeN Alliance
#15 - 2015-01-16 07:15:26 UTC  |  Edited by: RavenPaine
My TP is optimal around 45 and reaches out to 135. I snipe at around 120 and when smaller ships start towards me I paint them up. I never sniped from much more than 120 tbh. Warp range and all that.
Bronson Hughes
The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration
#16 - 2015-01-16 13:45:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Bronson Hughes
Kaos Itinen wrote:
So, I think I've decided to go with the following.

http://eve.battleclinic.com/loadout/71852-Rokh-Rock-Buffer-Sniper.html

I could swich the rigs for T1, if they are too expensive, seeing ans they don't increase what they do by a ton and are a lot more expensive. The Drones will be ECM drones, to have that possibility of helping if needed in that type of situation. Thing is, I'm still really new to this game and don't know if this will work out, or if I should add more sniper gear to it. Like, should I put some tracking computers on it? Or will the tracking be fine? I know with the TC I can run scripts and stuff. Still very new to this and learning. Thanks for all the advice!

If you are intent on heavily tanking your Rokh, that's about as good a fit as any.

I still think you're putting way too much emphasis on tank though. In your role as a gang support sniper, if you get tackled you're pretty much already dead. All you really need is enough buffer to survive some initial fire while you warp off. If you need that much buffer to survive for the 10-ish seconds it takes you to get into warp, you are in over your head already.

All of those modules you're allocating to tank could be going to applying damage at longer ranges, or to applying more damage at closer ranges (range mods function like damage mods if you can swap to closer range ammo).

Don't think of the shield resist bonus on the Rokh as motivation to tank it heavily. Think of it as an opportunity to dedicate more mods to gunnery while still maintaining a decent tank.


If I were in your position, this is what I would use:

[Naga, small gang sniper]

Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II

Tracking Computer II
Tracking Computer II
Sensor Booster II
Sensor Booster II
Large Shield Extender II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II

425mm Prototype Gauss Gun
425mm Prototype Gauss Gun
425mm Prototype Gauss Gun
425mm Prototype Gauss Gun
425mm Prototype Gauss Gun
425mm Prototype Gauss Gun
425mm Prototype Gauss Gun
425mm Prototype Gauss Gun

Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Medium Polycarbon Engine Housing I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender

(Scripts to suit)


You get more DPS, more range, faster lock time, faster align time, and better subwarp mobility at the expense of EHP (a lot of it) and the MJD (which, admittedly, is a hard thing for a sniper to give up). Once someone locks you, align to something warpable. If you start taking any kind of real fire, or are in danger of being tackled, warp off. Being a good sniper is about damage, range, and mobility, not being a fortress.

Relatively Notorious By Association

My Many Misadventures

I predicted FAUXs
Bronson Hughes
The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration
#17 - 2015-01-16 13:50:49 UTC
Kaos Itinen wrote:
A Target Painter? Don't they have a much shorter range? If I'm out at 180 to 250 KM, they Target Painter wouldn't have near that reach would it? I've thought the same thing but when I search for it I can never find a sniper loadout that uses one that is at this range. Most of them are close range and are using 250 mm guns, not the bigger ones. If this works I'll more then consider the target painters, I just didn't think they would have the range needed.

RavenPaine wrote:
My TP is optimal around 45 and reaches out to 135. I snipe at around 120 and when smaller ships start towards me I paint them up. I never sniped from much more than 120 tbh. Warp range and all that.

Target painters are nice because they help the entire gang, not just you. Their downside is their limited range and their chance to fail once you get past their optimal.

If I already have two tracking computers, a third one would be hit with a roughly 50% stacking penalty. Using a painter out to optimal + falloff also gives about a 50% penalty (i.e. it only hits 50% of the time). For extreme long range sniping, yes, painters aren't much good, but if you're under 130km and you already have two tracking computers, they can be handy, especially since they benefit the whole gang. Using two at sniping ranges is ill-advised (unless you're on a ship with TP bonuses) because you get double penalized (falloff penalty and stacking penalty).

Relatively Notorious By Association

My Many Misadventures

I predicted FAUXs
per
Terpene Conglomerate
#18 - 2015-01-17 11:04:04 UTC
naga is sadly better for this than rokh, unless you wanna snipe from 249km easily all the time
Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#19 - 2015-01-17 11:07:02 UTC
You should never snipe from over 140km-ish anyway, makes you easy target for a punt.

Art of Explosions
Gregor Parud
Imperial Academy
#20 - 2015-01-17 11:30:20 UTC
Maeltstome wrote:
Stop going down the Eve-WIki rabbit hole. Ending up with a sig-tanking-unprobeable-sniping-pvp-buffer tanked-rokh seems like the result of such a journey.

I know it's tempting to click all the little links, but most of the time it's best to focus on other peoples loss-mails and youtube videos.


OP needs to read this a few times.
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