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t1 frigates are expensive
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Plato Forko
123 Fake Street
#21 - 2015-01-13 02:27:17 UTC
yeah solo's been pretty blah in Metro too lately. I've been thinking of leaving but the system layout in this area is pretty sweet and at least I can grind for LP while baiting for fights. I feel like the abundance of uncounterable **** in space has had a chilling effect on solo. You'd have to be completely braindead to think I would, in any T1 frig, stick around for a fight against a ship with a 90% web, or 2400 m/s AB speed, or 300 drone DPS, or arty RFFs that can disengage anything the moment they're starting to lose. I think it's about time to reclassify pirate and faction frigs as T2 ships because they're better matched for fights with combat interceptors and AFs than for fights with T1 frigs which is what the lamers who fly them seem to be chasing after because hey, who wants to risk their 100m frig in a fight that they might actually lose? /rant
Nameira Vanis-Tor
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#22 - 2015-01-13 03:52:58 UTC
Doctor Knuckles wrote:
Nameira Vanis-Tor wrote:
I will just throw in my point of view for you to ridicule at your leisure but it may help shed light on the state of solo play in FW, this is my only character ever in EVE and it is about a years worth of play considering breaks etc. and I have discussed this with other newish pilots.

When you actually successfully engage in solo pvp one or more of the following happens:

1) The enemy pilot is genuinely interested in solo PVP but is one ship class more powerful than yours meaning the odds are against you.

2) The enemy pilot is baiting you and you get ganked after you engage.

3) The enemy pilot looks like they are soloing but they have links in system giving them a subtle edge and is not really soloing.

4) the enemy pilot is soloing but has hundreds of millions - billions of ISK invested in implants giving them an edge.

5) The pilot is genuinely looking for roughly fair soloing but is more skilled at flying than you (fair enough)

6) The pilot is looking for roughly fair solo PVP but is an old character and probably has most support skills at level 5

7) Pilot is roughly the same skill as a player and your character skills are roughly equal.

8) Pilot is either, less skilled, in a worse ship, has less support skills etc than you and is nit bait for a gank; this being the only scenario where you start with an advantage.

Most new players are not going to see scenario 8 very often and every time they lose to one of the other options they feel bad and see the benefit of group PVP. Mix into this that they have not figured out how to make enough ISK to support constant losses then their wallet cannot take 10 mil (to have a semi decent fitted T1 Frig/Dessie) losses at a rapid pace. Additionally if they don't have ISK but keep it up anyway they may be relying on corp ships - in which case if they die they feel even worse because they are now loosing corp assets (whether their corp minds or not doesn't matter).

Finally if they are in a corp that cares about its reputation then they will start to get comments (or think that their corp mates are thinking) from their corp mates about how they are making the corp look like an easy target. Which again makes them feel bad!

Myself I still have yet to get my first solo kill and I try to mitigate the pressure of conceding kills and ISK on solo adventures to a limited number of solo deaths in a time period. If that limit has expired then sorry I will not engage unless it is group PVP.

In short solo PVP in FW is not noob friendly at all, you don't have the skills (as a player), the skills in character, the ISK, the link alt, the implants or the morale to compete. Unfortunately the only way to get these is to soldier on regardless which can be draining.

Anyway if you want solo PVP in FW then the community has to consciously reverse the arms race that puts new pilots at a disadvantage and encourages them towards fleet PVP.

As I say just my point of view, fortunately for me my corp are pretty laid back and are happy for me to die in a redo culprits fashion as long as I learn something. How many corps and FC's are not so tolerant?

Ridicule away :)


all fair arguments.

I'd just like to point out regarding n. 1, that a ship one class superior doesn't necessarily mean an advantage.

A guy that moderately knows what he's doing knowing the ins and out of his ship and his target, and the right fit for the job, can kill any navy frig in a normal t1, even some pirate ones, not to mention certain match ups against dessies AFs and inties that are just easy as pie, some cruisers too tbh.

Also, while i agre solo pvp in FW is not noob friendly at all, i categorically refuse the statement that you can't compete in solo pvp, being it 1v1 or 1vx, unless you have implants and links and super pimp ships accompanied with perfect skills. That is just not true.

I've been doing it since my first day in pvp, in fact it's the great part of what i've been doing since my first day in pvp , and i'm by no means a bitter vet or some super expert guy that can go around teaching how to be leet, i'm a guy with less than 12 months of active training that has been blapped a lot since going out with 1 mil SP (and some of them in exploration xD ) in meta fit frigs, and slowly but surely got to the point where i explode more stuff than what i lose, by means of a cold assesment of what went wrong, and distinct lack of self preservation, pretty much going leeroy on anything's ass Pirate


I agree with most of what you say. I pilot who moderately knows what they are doing can fly against the numbers and win for any combination of reasons. However many of those reasons are unlikely to be within reach of new players. (Links in system, piloting skill, support skills, quality of mods being fitted, quality of implants etc)

Ironically the OP's thread title may not be being sarcastic when it comes to new players. T1 frigates may be too expensive!
IbanezLaney
The Church of Awesome
#23 - 2015-01-13 04:46:49 UTC
I too play an MMO and expect it to magically become single player when it suits me.

https://soundcloud.com/ibanezlaney
Liam Inkuras
Furnace
Meta Reloaded
#24 - 2015-01-13 04:48:42 UTC
FW lowsec is cancer

I wear my goggles at night.

Any spelling/grammatical errors come complimentary with my typing on a phone
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#25 - 2015-01-13 04:54:53 UTC
There's plenty of really bad noobs that other really bad noobs can kill to keep the game interesting for themselves.
Kaea Astridsson
Hoplite Brigade
Ushra'Khan
#26 - 2015-01-13 11:46:01 UTC
With so many complaining about the same problem, I have a hard time to see you good people lacking targets.

Get on Comms, or die typing.
Nameira Vanis-Tor
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#27 - 2015-01-13 12:28:17 UTC
Well how about this potential solution:

Each warzone creates an intel channel - say 'Amarr Matar Fught Club'

The intel channel is open to all initially slouch the moderators can ban pilots who misbehave.

The channel can be populated by pilots in the warzone who are interested in solo PVP.

Pilots post in the channel what they are currently looking to solo in and other pilots who are interested in a fight bid back until a fight is accepted. The 2 (or more?) piolts then meet up at a location of mutual choosing and have fun!

E.g Nameira "Want to Fight (WTF) Faction Frigate, 20 mil SP, No Links, clean clone.

(Soon to be Victorious Soler' "Nameira, T1 Dessie, 18 mil SP, no links, 20k ISK implants.

Nameira "'insert name here' accepted - private convo for location."

Accusations of cheating could be provided to the channel mods plus evidence with temporary/permanent bans from the channel being options. Or the cheater could re-imburse the victim as a lighter sentence.

Just a thought...
Domino Vyse
FeedingMachine
#28 - 2015-01-13 13:09:21 UTC
Nameira Vanis-Tor wrote:
Well how about this potential solution:

Each warzone creates an intel channel - say 'Amarr Matar Fught Club'

The intel channel is open to all initially slouch the moderators can ban pilots who misbehave.

The channel can be populated by pilots in the warzone who are interested in solo PVP.

Pilots post in the channel what they are currently looking to solo in and other pilots who are interested in a fight bid back until a fight is accepted. The 2 (or more?) piolts then meet up at a location of mutual choosing and have fun!

E.g Nameira "Want to Fight (WTF) Faction Frigate, 20 mil SP, No Links, clean clone.

(Soon to be Victorious Soler' "Nameira, T1 Dessie, 18 mil SP, no links, 20k ISK implants.

Nameira "'insert name here' accepted - private convo for location."

Accusations of cheating could be provided to the channel mods plus evidence with temporary/permanent bans from the channel being options. Or the cheater could re-imburse the victim as a lighter sentence.

Just a thought...


This is not what solo PVP is about.
Red Khalmer
Minmatar Secret Service
Ushra'Khan
#29 - 2015-01-13 14:04:05 UTC
Now lets be honest here, some of you guys doesnt want "good fights". You are just after easy pray to pump up your killboard with. Many people here complain that they are not getting enough fights. well stop flying boosted worms and garmurs vs newbies with rifters and atrons and fights might be coming your way. Fly something people want to engage and you will get fights in no time. some of you only want them to engage you so you can get your daily harvest of kills and a green killboard. This is a prime example of what happens in the warzone.

Linked Garmur comes to system
tries to chase T1 frigs and T1 destroyers for easy kills.
Inhabitants ships up to daredevils or other ships better suited to fight garmurs.
Garmur player see's inhabitants wants engage his garmur and he leaves the system.

They are just as risk averse as everyone else and they are not interested in fighting fights where the opponent can attack back.
Complaining about newbies not wanting to engage things they have little to no chance in beating is just selfish thinking. The game does not revolve around you getting cheap kills. I'd say its easy to get fights with expensive ships aswell. all you need to do is be around a factions homesystem for while and the inhabitants will give you fights. But im suspecting that is not what some of you are after.

if you are really desperate for some instant solo PvP I suggest flying some unpopular T1 frig and you will have a fight in 10 minutes. And if you fly worms and garmurs you have to deal with that not everyone wants to engage you. It wont change in time either.
Rifter PiIot
Doomheim
#30 - 2015-01-13 17:37:45 UTC
Strange all I fly is rifter and I get gf's all the time. Maybe stop flying daredevils and worms?

The Rifter is a very powerful combat frigate and can easily tackle the best frigates out there.
Stitch Kaneland
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#31 - 2015-01-13 18:18:22 UTC
I fly solo in LS. Just use FW to make isk at the same time.

I get 1-4 fights a night most times. i fly ships that people think they have an advantage over. Not to mention are intended for anti-blob. Will gank something 1v1 without issue normally. But against multiple targets, becomes very entertaining. I killed a confessor and a tristan when a damnation landed 100km from me, and a few seconds after i popped a tristan, a vargur landed 40km from me. Talk about an ass clenching experience. But i killed a 120m worth in a 70m ish fit bc, in a fight. I love fighting blobs. They ALWAYS engage. If its an obvious loss, then yea, ill run. Not handing out free KM. But if its 4-6ships, ill consider it.

EVE is just as much psycological warfare as it is tactical. Let them see you, follow you. Let them think youre just another bad. Then decimate and profit.

Give Battlecruisers range to fullfil their Anti-Cruiser role - OP SUCCESS

Make the Muninn great again!
Phil Hinken
Doomheim
#32 - 2015-01-13 18:58:56 UTC
Bad Messenger wrote:
there is couple skilled pilots around who will kill you on 1 vs 1 and then there is blobs and farmers who will run.

FW does not give real challenge for anyone so better to look for something else.


Jesus! What's up with your eye!?

"With the dowhop zig-zag jello pops, kids nowadays bee zop Rudy ha ha ha ziggety zaggity puddin." - Bill Cosby
ValentinaDLM
SoE Roughriders
Electus Matari
#33 - 2015-01-14 10:34:41 UTC
There are fights out there to be had. Just know that nearly everyone who is decent at PVP is going to have links, and if you want a fair fight you should have links, implants, and as many SP as the other character.

Eve isn't about Fair fights, FW isn't about fair fights, IMO the best thing you can do is not expect a 1v1 to be "fair". There isn't really a fair fight out there against a worm, lol but I will still take a fight against it because sometimes I get lucky. If you really want fair fights you can always arrange one in RvB.

Instead of complaining about links, or blobs or stabbed farmers, I think the best way to look at it is to learn your local area, and learn who does what. I know full well the sort of people who I can probably get a solo fight from in a plex, and I know most of the people who are going to warp the second I am on Dscan, and I know the people who regularly fly in a fleet only and don't solo. Intel is a huge part of eve, and if someone isn't a viable target, just stop whining move on and find someone to fight.
Doctor Knuckles
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#34 - 2015-01-14 11:27:02 UTC
ValentinaDLM wrote:
There are fights out there to be had. Just know that nearly everyone who is decent at PVP is going to have links, and if you want a fair fight you should have links, implants, and as many SP as the other character.




oh please. Stop throwing this around. Just stop.

It makes you look like a scrub making up excuses to anyone with a minimum of combat experience out there.
Starbuck05
Abiding Ormolus
#35 - 2015-01-14 11:49:57 UTC
Doctor Knuckles wrote:
ValentinaDLM wrote:
There are fights out there to be had. Just know that nearly everyone who is decent at PVP is going to have links, and if you want a fair fight you should have links, implants, and as many SP as the other character.




oh please. Stop throwing this around. Just stop.

It makes you look like a scrub making up excuses to anyone with a minimum of combat experience out there.



How true.




Besides i dunno how many times must i say personaly that i don't use links,boosters nor do i have 2 + bil value in my head

Just because i am blond does not make me stoopid !
Thanatos Marathon
Moira.
#36 - 2015-01-14 15:55:03 UTC
I solo'd six ships last night in a hour and 15 minutes using a T1 destroyer. Fights included, 1 v 1, 1 v 1, 1 v 2, 1 v 4, 1 v 5 (no kills but almost got one of them), and 1 v 2 again.

No links were used in the making of this program.

JUSTK is recruiting
Rovain Sess
Wu Fanged
#37 - 2015-01-14 16:37:47 UTC
I continue to read this concept that solo pvp is dead, etc. It's not. If you think that it'll be readily available - your wrong. Yes you have to be persistent and yes you will get blobbed from time to time - but sometimes you'll find good ole 1v1 goodness. At which point you'll discover if he's linked or not. Tbh me and mine don't get caught up in KB mania, some folks do - so choosing the right corporation makes a huge difference in a pilots in game experience.

I also agree that a lot of farmers in Eve flee PVP - but stuff like that occurs in sandboxes. I have also found that Eve has it's own unique doldrums or slow periods. Call it the suck or what you will, but you just have to grind thru it. Eventually the winds pick up.

Also a fights a fight - so shoot more than flashy orange. Don't AWOX - but neuts often bring the best fights. I guess what I'm saying is don't limit your opportunities for pewage.

I've personally seen more Miniturd activity - so our zone seems to be showing a bit more health.

Rove
Burtakus
Lone W0lf Society
#38 - 2015-01-16 04:09:19 UTC
Solo is not dead by any stretch of the imagination. I have been mainly a solo PvP player once I got past my first few months of FW. I get plenty of 1 v 1 and 1 v many fights almost every night I undock. You just have to understand that you are going to die a lot.

As for links, I sometimes fly with links as a counter to pilots I know are linked, in 1 v many situations, and when I am fighting a ship class above. Before I had a link alt I was consistently accused of using links any way. I still die just s much as before links but now its because I take fights that are beyond the realistic engagement envelop of what I am flying and not so much because I am out linked any more. You can't really complain about links when I engage 2-3 destroyers in a Navy frig or when I land a HAC in the middle of an AF fleet just to see if I can survive.

Most solid solo PvPers are really not looking for that easy kill, those are not much fun. It's the tough kills or tough fights that provide the entertainment value.
Plato Forko
123 Fake Street
#39 - 2015-01-16 20:03:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Plato Forko
gankbearing is fun too
ValentinaDLM
SoE Roughriders
Electus Matari
#40 - 2015-01-18 09:57:30 UTC
Doctor Knuckles wrote:
ValentinaDLM wrote:
There are fights out there to be had. Just know that nearly everyone who is decent at PVP is going to have links, and if you want a fair fight you should have links, implants, and as many SP as the other character.




oh please. Stop throwing this around. Just stop.

It makes you look like a scrub making up excuses to anyone with a minimum of combat experience out there.


You mean my opinion, might make people think poorly of me on the internet? This cannot be! I am so worried about people thinking I am a scrub I am gonna just rat up my sec status and start mining.
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