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Circadians now shooting back if attacked

Author
Miko Jin
HELVEGEN
#1 - 2015-01-13 23:37:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Miko Jin
It was noted this evening in Balle system that the Circadian seekers are attacking anybody that attacks them and not simply scanning as previously reported.

This could just be a defensive measure as they are continuing to scan structures and asteroid belts but is a step up from just scanning.
Edriss
State War Academy
Caldari State
#2 - 2015-01-14 01:34:52 UTC
I can confirm the same thing happened in Kirras.

I attacked a group of 5 Circadian Seekers and they retaliated with "Praedormitan Missile". Furthemore, as I was fighting the last one, a second wave of 5 warped in and attacked immediately. It seems that they are not able to scan and fight at the same time.
Elmund Egivand
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#3 - 2015-01-14 02:08:55 UTC
Edriss wrote:
I can confirm the same thing happened in Kirras.

I attacked a group of 5 Circadian Seekers and they retaliated with "Praedormitan Missile". Furthemore, as I was fighting the last one, a second wave of 5 warped in and attacked immediately. It seems that they are not able to scan and fight at the same time.


'Praedormitan Missiles'? What kind of damage do those do? What's the range of those things? Would it be possible to acquire those missiles?

How much damage was sustained from these missiles, according to your ship logs?

A Minmatar warship is like a rusting Beetle with 500 horsepower Cardillac engines in the rear, armour plating bolted to chassis and a M2 Browning stuck on top.

Joanne Breau
ST and JB Industries
#4 - 2015-01-14 02:53:14 UTC
I'm wondering how dangerous are they? How much DPS do they do, etc.?
Jandice Ymladris
Aurora Arcology
#5 - 2015-01-14 10:04:14 UTC
Edriss wrote:
I can confirm the same thing happened in Kirras.

I attacked a group of 5 Circadian Seekers and they retaliated with "Praedormitan Missile". Furthemore, as I was fighting the last one, a second wave of 5 warped in and attacked immediately. It seems that they are not able to scan and fight at the same time.


Wait a second wave? This gets more & more worrying each time...

Providing a new home for refugees in the Aurora Arcology

epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#6 - 2015-01-14 10:22:12 UTC  |  Edited by: epicurus ataraxia
Edriss wrote:
I can confirm the same thing happened in Kirras.

I attacked a group of 5 Circadian Seekers and they retaliated with "Praedormitan Missile". Furthemore, as I was fighting the last one, a second wave of 5 warped in and attacked immediately. It seems that they are not able to scan and fight at the same time.


Were you able to defend youself against the second wave? If so did more spawn afterwards? If you withdrew, did they follow and re-engage?

And most important, have you discovered any since, and are you KIll on sight to them?

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE

Edriss
State War Academy
Caldari State
#7 - 2015-01-14 10:46:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Edriss
Elmund Egivand wrote:
Edriss wrote:
I can confirm the same thing happened in Kirras.

I attacked a group of 5 Circadian Seekers and they retaliated with "Praedormitan Missile". Furthemore, as I was fighting the last one, a second wave of 5 warped in and attacked immediately. It seems that they are not able to scan and fight at the same time.


'Praedormitan Missiles'? What kind of damage do those do? What's the range of those things? Would it be possible to acquire those missiles?

How much damage was sustained from these missiles, according to your ship logs?


According to the database, Praedormitan Missiles deals 75 Explosive Damage and 75 Kinetic Damage. Each Circadian Seeker launch only one of them per salvo at 3750 m/s. They like to orbit at around 10 km. I didn't notice any active tanking.

Praedormitan Missiles are not available for capsuleers.

Analysis of combat log :

1/ The average DPS I received through the combat was 12 from the missiles + 7 from an unnamed weapon, but keep in mind that the combat went like this :
- First wave of 5 seekers, killed one at a time.
- As I was fighting the last one, second wave of 5 seekers, killed one at a time. No more reinforcements appeared.

2/ I dealt 107 000 damage total, for a DPS of 74. (I wasn't flying a combat ship).

3/ Wrecks are still empty and salvage still yield scrap metals only.

I haven't encountered seekers since then, so i don't know if I'm KOS for them.
Jandice Ymladris
Aurora Arcology
#8 - 2015-01-14 11:14:34 UTC
That's some very useful information Edriss. Now we know they use two different weapon systems, albeit only the missile launcher can be seen on their hull.

Providing a new home for refugees in the Aurora Arcology

Elmund Egivand
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#9 - 2015-01-14 11:57:18 UTC
Intriguing. It would be great if we can disable one of those, rip out one of these launchers and the missile it carries and study how they work.

A Minmatar warship is like a rusting Beetle with 500 horsepower Cardillac engines in the rear, armour plating bolted to chassis and a M2 Browning stuck on top.

Jaret Victorian
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#10 - 2015-01-14 11:59:52 UTC
Elmund Egivand wrote:
Intriguing. It would be great if we can disable one of those, rip out one of these launchers and the missile it carries and study how they work.

Meh, If it was that easy, a sleeper drone would be making me my tea right now.
Miko Jin
HELVEGEN
#11 - 2015-01-14 12:36:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Miko Jin
Edriss wrote:
I can confirm the same thing happened in Kirras.

I attacked a group of 5 Circadian Seekers and they retaliated with "Praedormitan Missile". Furthemore, as I was fighting the last one, a second wave of 5 warped in and attacked immediately. It seems that they are not able to scan and fight at the same time.


I confirm this was the case in Balle also.
The second wave adapt to attack and are more resilient in their defence and damage dealt.
Torgeir Hekard
I MYSELF AND ME
#12 - 2015-01-14 12:53:01 UTC
Mmmkay. So I've read they now shoot back and decided to see it myself.

First I had a cruise phoon because it was an inexpensive ship with an MJD.
Well, those guys easily shoot out to 100km and are doing 1240m/s.
They also have 2 weapon systems - missiles and turrets. And it was painful for the phoon, besieged covert site kind of painful. And I wasn't really into choking on booster charges, so I warped out and returned with a 200km widow.

The widow had a nice 70-100km window of not being shot back at, so I killed some bastards, but as I was doing that, the new guys started warping in landing near me. And the newcomers were tanking my cruises MUCH better. Like taking 57dmg volleys instead of 470. I checked between inferno and nova missiles, and swapping the damage type did nothing. There were 2 possibilities - either they got better resists across the board or they got much lower sig.

It was an arty mach time! In addition to the widow I mean.
Arty mach was doing much better. It had 3/2/2 split arties with RF Phased Plasma and was doing 300-600hp volleys per group in deep falloff. Which suggests the new group was sigtanking. Though it would be interesting to see what would happen if I was using turrets against the first group.

After killing both groups nothing happened. Well, a K162 spawned a few seconds after. Happens to be an A641 from Murzi (no Unidentified Structure on the other side), but it most likely is a coincidence.

Some things of notice:
1) They all go 1240m/s
2) They shoot missiles up to about 100km and can get random lucky turret shots up to 130km
3) Dunno if they scramble.
4) They have particulary bad memory and stop shooting after you rewarp.
5) They have tunnel vision and chase the first one to aggro them ignoring the rest (at least they didn't manage to notice the mach for a couple of minutes).
6) For me the newcomers were warping in one by one or in groups of two, and at least one of them landed almost on top of me.
7) Wrecks are empty. Salvage is metal scraps.
8) Oh. And they chase you very far. Kited them out to 900km from the structure.
Anafenza Illat
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#13 - 2015-01-14 14:17:50 UTC
What were you expecting? You'd think that it would go without saying that if you shoot at something it would eventually shoot back, right?
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#14 - 2015-01-14 16:47:02 UTC
Jandice Ymladris wrote:
Edriss wrote:
I can confirm the same thing happened in Kirras.

I attacked a group of 5 Circadian Seekers and they retaliated with "Praedormitan Missile". Furthemore, as I was fighting the last one, a second wave of 5 warped in and attacked immediately. It seems that they are not able to scan and fight at the same time.


Wait a second wave? This gets more & more worrying each time...




Makes me wonder.

"Killing for science" comes to mind. Like when botanists find rare plants on a new planet, they have to take a sample.

If there is escalation to these encounters and what comes does not yield a lot of information, maybe what comes next will be bigger and have more to offer.

Considering how powerful sleepers can get, this can be dangerous. If this happens at a gate or high-traffic station, it could be an incident on the level of a Sansha incursion.

A good organized fleet might be able to keep control of it. Perhaps the incursion specialists might help. They are well-equipped and have good logistics.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!

Jennifer Starfall
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#15 - 2015-01-14 18:17:32 UTC
Aside from their only aggressing after being attacked, the armament and attack patterns of the Seekers are very similar to the Sleepers found in anoikis. They use the same kind of missiles and are also armed with a beam weapon.

The Sleeper version of the Praedormitan missiles generally seem to do a mixture of explosive and kinetic damage. The beam weapons, however, generally do a mixture of EM and thermal damage. As a result, when engaging Sleepers, and now Seekers by extension, defenses need to be balance across all damage types.

I'm not sure I would discount the intelligence of their attack patterns. Sleepers will regularly rotate targets and will engage drones and logistical support. I suspect the limited target engagement we're currently seeing is due to limited scope of the incidents that have been reported so far combined with their apparently retaliation-only rules of engagement.

It may be a worthwhile exercise for an enterprising organization to engage a Seeker group with a logistics-supported squadron. The squadron attack vessels would aggress the Seeker group, cease fire, and then observe the attack patterns. The logistics support will allow the attack vessels to maintain their defenses against the prolonged barrage. Attack drones of some kind should be included, to determine if the Seekers will attack drones. The support vessels should operate under standard combat protocols as the Seekers may rotate their attack to them.

Once sufficient data has been collected on the initial group, the group should be burned to prompt the arrival of the second wave, and that wave should be observed in the same manner.

There have been rumors and concerns about the newly aggressive Seekers attacking capsuleer pods. Has there been any confirmation of this?

Jennifer Starfall

Fifth Seyllin Conference

Wendrika Hydreiga
#16 - 2015-01-14 18:42:12 UTC
There's a lesson here for everyone. If a bunch of non-hostile drones show up, for the love of Rabbit, don't shot them until they start going hostile!

Seriously!
Jennifer Starfall
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#17 - 2015-01-14 18:53:34 UTC
Wendrika Hydreiga wrote:
There's a lesson here for everyone. If a bunch of non-hostile drones show up, for the love of Rabbit, don't shot them until they start going hostile!

Seriously!


You're hardly in a position to moralize.

Jennifer Starfall

Fifth Seyllin Conference

Wendrika Hydreiga
#18 - 2015-01-14 19:05:49 UTC
Jennifer Starfall wrote:
You're hardly in a position to moralize.


And who elected you for the Ethics and Morals Comitee? I sure didn't vote for you!

Silly Sansha sympathizer.
Jennifer Starfall
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#19 - 2015-01-14 19:29:41 UTC
Wendrika Hydreiga wrote:
Jennifer Starfall wrote:
You're hardly in a position to moralize.


And who elected you for the Ethics and Morals Comitee? I sure didn't vote for you!

Silly Sansha sympathizer.


Yeah, okay.

Perhaps you have something constructive to contribute that will actually help protect people and maybe save some lives?

Jennifer Starfall

Fifth Seyllin Conference

Jennifer Starfall
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#20 - 2015-01-14 19:35:09 UTC
Another thought has occurred to me.

Has anyone observed if CONCORD or navy units are engaging the Seekers after they go aggressive?

Also, someone observed Seeker and faction pirate wrecks at a gate, but has anyone directly observed faction pirates and Seekers on grid with each other, peacefully or otherwise?

Jennifer Starfall

Fifth Seyllin Conference

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