These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

stupid missile

Author
Bearilian
Man Eating Bears
#1 - 2011-12-18 01:16:12 UTC
simple. have each missile finish what it was launched to do.

whether the ship that fired them was destroyed or warped off grid, the missiles that are flying to the target should continue to do so. They would have sufficent targeting systems enough to come close (surely they could at least switch to heat seeking mode if nothing else). I would be willing to comprimise with having them hit with less damage, since the mother ship isnt there to guide them, but even thats unecessary.

((griefer warning)) -turret pvp players wont like this idea...Bear
Jask Avan
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#2 - 2011-12-18 01:42:45 UTC
Kinda sad if it doesn't already.
Obsidiana
Atrament Inc.
#3 - 2011-12-18 05:12:01 UTC
Way back, I think they did. People used it to avoid CONCORD and for general ganking. People could fire/cloak/uncloak/fire, fire/warpout/warpin/fire, or even fire/logoff/logon/fire to be invincible. Damage dealers could be untouchable in PvP. Anyway, it caused a variety problems so they removed the ability.
Bearilian
Man Eating Bears
#4 - 2011-12-18 07:28:46 UTC
well, thats interesting to know. so i can see why no allowing either a warp off or cloak.

but i would at least like to see destroyed ships have their missiles hit. it would help missile boats in pvp, without being such targets. its almost as if it became an exploit in the opposite direction. and could be ballanced.

i wish there was someway to manipulate when a missile would finish its run out if the ship warps off. but could imagine that might only cause problems. and shooting missiles while cloaking, i feel should defenitely be nerfed for the reason it was.
Gnord
Super Mining Bros - 3D
#5 - 2011-12-18 09:29:33 UTC
A better idea might just be a global 3x missile velocity all around (and a corresponding 1/3 of max-flight time).
Defender missiles just don't work anyways, and that's the only reason for missiles to be slow.

A missile would be faster than an artillery shell, and they are "instant" like all turrets.
Autocannon bullets would be even slower than artillery.

Defender missiles could just give attacking missiles a % chance to miss, but ignore the actual physics flight of trying to intercept a missile with a missile. Make it "just work", and fake the visual effect.

Bearilian
Man Eating Bears
#6 - 2011-12-18 18:23:00 UTC
there is actually a thread about exactly that where i extracted this idea. but there is an increadable resistance from turret users that feel missiles should be nerfed as they are. so this is my comprimize. if missiles were to continue to and explode on their targets. then pvp would be more viable more missile boats, and not targeted just to make their volley innefective. but yeah, i support both.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=46891
LeHarfang
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2011-12-18 22:12:43 UTC
No because it would'nt be balanced with drones.

Drones stop moving if the mothership warp out, so missiles have to do the same so that the game stays balanced.
Joe Risalo
State War Academy
Caldari State
#8 - 2011-12-18 22:38:13 UTC
Obsidiana wrote:
Way back, I think they did. People used it to avoid CONCORD and for general ganking. People could fire/cloak/uncloak/fire, fire/warpout/warpin/fire, or even fire/logoff/logon/fire to be invincible. Damage dealers could be untouchable in PvP. Anyway, it caused a variety problems so they removed the ability.


Turrets can fire and leave, the only difference is that turrets will do the damage instantly.

However, when it comes to committing a concordable act and then fleeing, that's considered an exploit and can be bannable.

So missiles hitting after you have left or been destroyed would only truly come into play in a situation in which concod wouldn't respond.
Bearilian
Man Eating Bears
#9 - 2011-12-18 23:31:45 UTC
LeHarfang wrote:
No because it would'nt be balanced with drones.

Drones stop moving if the mothership warp out, so missiles have to do the same so that the game stays balanced.


this argument does not belong in this thread. do not be comparing drones and their link to the mother ship with missiles. it makes sense that drones stop all action once their transmission was cut off. drones are used for a multitude of things, not just launch and detonate. which is exactly the only purpose in firing a missile, rocket, or bomb. it has one directive, and only one. it will not switch targets if the target dies before it gets there.
-which actually brings up a good counter point to your input. if missiles were so dependant apon the ship that fired them to guide them to target. Then they would swerve to the next target if that one was destroyed before hand.

and, no, this is would not unbalance the game. as i stated before it would only cause some rethinking to the strategies of combat (a little). the only down side is you would not target missile boats first, only for the benefit of having their missiles go dud.
Aglais
Ice-Storm
#10 - 2011-12-19 01:03:40 UTC
LeHarfang wrote:
No because it would'nt be balanced with drones.

Drones stop moving if the mothership warp out, so missiles have to do the same so that the game stays balanced.


What I read was essentially

"Cars are OP because skateboards don't have engines."

Two entirely different weapon systems. Not to mention that fighters/fighterbombers will continue to engage your target after the carrier that launched them warps off.

And they will also follow your target around the solar system until it leaves or dies.
Obsidiana
Atrament Inc.
#11 - 2011-12-19 07:50:42 UTC
Being in line with drones is not a direct consideration. They act in a similar fashion to missiles in this case because of possible exploits. Other than that, they are independently considered (relatively speaking as little to nothing in Eve is independent). For example, cloaking with drones out could make you invulnerable yet with offensive capabilities. The nature of drones means that you could keep dishing out damage theoretically endlessly, making repercussions vastly different for drones than for missiles.

As for guns, the only ones comparable are projectiles weapons. It is a matter of alpha generated by ship bonuses, fittings, and player skills. Taking range into account, the alpha becomes much higher for missiles than projectiles.* Missiles easily hit with thousands of effective damage from very long range all in one shot. Two or three volleys can sometimes be fired before the first hits. From here, my memory is a bit fuzzy. I forget if CONCORD reacted to launch or impact of missiles. I forget if you were flagged as hostile on launch or impact. A part of the problem was that a defending player had no chance to get the attacker in range yet they could send several volleys at the victim. Combine that with passive targeting modules and logoffs tactics and, well, you see how things get crazy.

* Keep in mind that projectile ammo at the time had various ranges and was different from the modern simplified version we have today. Heck, projectiles used a very small amount of capacitor energy back then. Furthermore, this may have been before the changes to missiles (full damage to small targets), torp nerf, etc.
Bearilian
Man Eating Bears
#12 - 2011-12-19 08:52:30 UTC
I agree that, the current set up was an attempt to prevent a few exploits that were not originally intended. however, I beleive the system is unbalanced. first ill address cloaking; there really isnt any way i can think to make this mechanic work, so keep it as is, where both drones and missiles untarget as soon as the ship cloaks. as far as warping off, i would have to say that it is really not any more of an exploit as far as damage is concerned, unless you are exploiting concord. rather than nerfing missiles, the mechanic that should be changed is what concord responds to. if you lock a target in high sec, and attempt to fire at them, the warning you recieve comes before your turret or launcher goes active. if you click yes (or if you turned warning off, and just fire), concord should react immediately. since damage is almost innevitable.

all that, i could really care less about. my true aim for this thread is to address why missiles will not continue towards and hit the target they were launched toward, after the mothership is destroyed?
Obsidiana
Atrament Inc.
#13 - 2011-12-20 19:36:36 UTC
Ya, upon death, they should still hit IMHO. Anti-exploits are one thing; this is another.