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Ishtar: a different approach...
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afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#21 - 2015-01-07 11:44:42 UTC
Perhaps, something will always land on top. That's why I've advocated ways that change the ishtar to take the lean off of sentries - keeps them balanced if sentries are nerfed - so things like dropping the control range, trading DPS for control range etc. None of these matter a hoot to a non sentry dependent ishtar or a short range sentry ishtar. So if later sentries are still too cool, then when that's fixed ishtars still work well.
Soldarius
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#22 - 2015-01-07 20:15:00 UTC
The fact that it can field 3 full sets of BS-sized drones (sentries) is OP. Reduce available bandwidth and you reduce the ability to field so many sentries/heavies at once. Its a HAC. Not a Rattlesnake. At this point, may as well rename them "Komodo"s.

http://youtu.be/YVkUvmDQ3HY
IceAero
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#23 - 2015-01-07 20:26:29 UTC
Eventually (2018? 2028?), people are going to learn that the Ishtar is not the problem. I'm not even the first person in this thread to say it, but it still needs to be said often...

Sentry drones. Need. Attention.

There's many solutions. Not being able to 'assist' them is interesting. Personally, I think a change to sentry drone control range is needed. Maybe just a change to the base stats, e.g., sentry drone control range is different than drone control range. I don't know what value what be 'balanced', but I seen plenty of reason to separate sentry drones from all other drones in this regard.

_
ice
VonKolroth
Anarchist's Anonymous
#24 - 2015-01-08 00:33:56 UTC
Altirius Saldiaro wrote:
Allow EWAR hitting a ship to affect the drones.

Sensor Damp an Ishtar, result is Drones Target Range and Scan Resolution get affected.
ECM an Ishtar, result is the drones cannot lock targets.
Tracking Disrupt an Ishtar, its drones tracking gets disrupted.


I like this idea until I realize drones are one of the few things keeping ECM in check for solo players.

Sent from my Gallente Erabus Titan on -FA- SRP
VonKolroth
Anarchist's Anonymous
#25 - 2015-01-08 01:00:30 UTC
Soldarius wrote:
The fact that it can field 3 full sets of BS-sized drones (sentries) is OP. Reduce available bandwidth and you reduce the ability to field so many sentries/heavies at once. Its a HAC. Not a Rattlesnake. At this point, may as well rename them "Komodo"s.


This honestly seems like the most simple and concise way to deal with Ishtar supremacy without making a ton of changes, Give Ishtar enough drone bay to fit one heavy drone damage type and some lights unless it wants to use Geckos, which are expensive and bulky.

Sent from my Gallente Erabus Titan on -FA- SRP
scorchlikeshiswhiskey
Totally Abstract
O X I D E
#26 - 2015-01-08 01:00:56 UTC
VonKolroth wrote:
Altirius Saldiaro wrote:
Allow EWAR hitting a ship to affect the drones.

Sensor Damp an Ishtar, result is Drones Target Range and Scan Resolution get affected.
ECM an Ishtar, result is the drones cannot lock targets.
Tracking Disrupt an Ishtar, its drones tracking gets disrupted.


I like this idea until I realize drones are one of the few things keeping ECM in check for solo players.

It is an interesting idea, maybe make it a 20% chance per drone per successful jam/damp etc... 20% being a random number, but the point being that, statistically, you'll remove at least 1 drone per successful EWAR cycle. The upside being that you could remove multiple drones for that cycle. (Or none) Just a thought about that particular idea
I do agree that Sentry drones seem to be, if anything, the single biggest issue with Ishtars, Navy Vexors, and the lot. Being able to field a "full rack" of Battleship class weapons is a bit ridiculous, it would be like me fitting a full rack of CMs or Rapid Heavies on my Cerb with the option to assist them to my fleet mates. The correct solution is not something I care to comment on, I don't know enough about the specifics to propose a good one, so I won't. However, it does seem reasonable at first glance to reduce bandwidth to disallow the 5th sentry, or even to disallow sentries below BC's or even BS's.
VonKolroth
Anarchist's Anonymous
#27 - 2015-01-08 01:18:30 UTC  |  Edited by: VonKolroth
scorchlikeshiswhiskey wrote:
...it does seem reasonable at first glance to reduce bandwidth to disallow the 5th sentry, or even to disallow sentries below BC's or even BS's.


I'm not so sure the problem with sentries resides with the amount of DPS, which taking the 5th sentry would only solve moderately. The primary solution to Ishtars would still be more Ishtars. A lot of it's utility comes from the ability to keep replacing sentries to the field and sentries ability to project damage of any type on the fly. If you shrink the bay, FC's have to commit to a damage type or split damage types across separate Ishtars. Not to mention FC's and linemen need to treat their drones in a much less disposable fashion as if an Ishtar loses it's one and a half sentry drones in a fleet warp, that Ishtar is mostly detoothed for the rest of the fight. This also makes them more susceptible to bomber clearing their drones from the field.

Drone bay nerf also has the benefit of not affecting other playstyles greatly where the Ishtar doesn't really create issues.

Sent from my Gallente Erabus Titan on -FA- SRP
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