Crime & Punishment

Let me guess I'm also a grandmaster puppet master who controls the nullsec cartels that control the tinfoil supply that you buy to wrap around your head to protect from evil mind control rays generated by the code people for nefarious pro-botting purposes?

It's actually no longer just CCP's definition. Wikipedia took up the torch and added an addendum to their definition to 'griefing' to make it clear that griefplay in EVE is different from other games. So, yes, there are things that happen in EVE that are considered griefing in most other games, but are not considered such here.
This is a hurdle that many vertically challenged simply cannot make it over. We need to implement steps!

No need - if it's on wikipedia people will be quoting it as the gospel truth.

Here's the only definition that counts in Eve, CCP's

Pay particular attention to the following:

(emphasis mine)

Clever. Really. 10/10.

Yes they do.



Yes they do. I have seen them.



No, we call them that because that is what they are.




No they are not.




No I do not need to.
There is nothing "dominant" about blowing up non-compliant ventures.
I am just doing the good work of the New Order.

Quite honestly, there's so much stupid in that post it's, well, it's ludicrous. All you're doing here is echoing what the code states. That doesn't suddenly mean there are players who aspire to be bots. Nobody needs to aspire to be a bot, and they certainly wouldn't do so by practicing looking AFK.

And sure, you may feel you are doing the good work of the new order (though I doubt it, I'm betting you aim to make people cry then sit there fapping), but the reality is your actions increase profits for botters. Like it or not, that's what the impact of code really is. Well done code.

Yes, i believe i used the words "intends".

But doing something with full knowledge of what the outcome would bring, is intention. If you shoot someone in the head, and then say "But i didnt intend for them to die", the question to ask is "Well, what did you think would happen if you shot someone in the head!!?" People who empty out entire ore belts with fleet mining, know full well that they are going to irritate and upset other players who come to mine. The intention is there.



No, what you say is utter nonsense. The majority of ganks happen in .5, .6 security space where concord reaction speeds are the lowest, which necessarily defines the miners within those systems as opposite to risk-averse. One of the most miner-ganked systems by Code, is Osmon, a .6 system.

Furthermore, most of the miners that are ganked are flying retreivers or covetors. The ratio of Retreiver/mackinaw/covetor/hulk to Skiff/procurers being killed, is like 100 to 1. If these players were actually risk-aversed, they would be flying fully tanked procurers, not untanked maximum-yeild retreivers.

You are clearly wrong on this point.


Except that theyre also not idiots. Theyre not gonna run their program every day for 24 hours. But youre right, theyre there to farm isk, meaning that they want to, as all players, maximize the amount of isk they mine within the 8-10 hours they use their bot program for. And I think this is true for almost everyone who mines. No one is mining out the goodness of their hearts, so that they may donate the isk made to charities. Most, infact id say its safe to assume that all people who mine in hisec are doing it to farm isk.

Add to that, the fact that we already know of 3, 4 year old players who get ganked, and where a ship loss or two is utterly irrelevant. I have an extremely hard time believing that a 3 year old player, with plenty of ship kills and losses on Zkillboard that prove they were active during those years, will be utterly devastated and bankrupt because of a 30 million isk ship loss. And yet, they frequently complain and cry about it, all the time.

So clearly, people who are there to farm isk for income and the loss of a ship or two is irrelevant to them, can, and do, complain and cry all the time. So your argument here, is invalid.



Sure. Most people who die and cry, arent gonna be botters. Code isnt saying "We only target botters". But your claim that this somehow helps botters, is utterly nonsensical and wrong.

But ive read your comments above, and nowhere does it explain how botters wont be in the general target group for code. Botters, like everyone, want to maximize profit and income. Some will bot for 8 hours a day, every day, but try and go it safe by botting in .8-.9 systems. Others, will only bot once or twice a week to try and stay under the radar, but bot in .5-.6 systems. They act just like regular miners, who get killed by code every day.

Given your posting history, what did you expect?.

Wat™?

Wrong, that's your opinion.

You're getting as bad as Veers when it comes to presenting opinion as fact.

Fact : a thing that is known or proved to be true.
Opinion : a view or judgement formed about something, not necessarily based on fact or knowledge.

Know the difference.

Griefing is actually pretty simple to define, and I think my definition is the same as CCPs.

Griefing is when you perform actions with the intent of screwing with the person behind the keyboard.
Valid gameplay mechanics are actions that screw with your character in-game.


CCP tends to lean quite heavily towards the "valid gameplay mechanics" side of the line. As an adult, they expect you to comprehend that the vast majority of in-game activities and behaviors are just that, in-game. CCP also takes a pretty broad view of what "in-game" actually entails, and considers stuff like TMC, Minerbumping, and such in-game.

Camping you in a station because I want to is a totally valid gameplay mechanic.
Camping you in a station because you're black and I'm a huge racist (BTW I'm not a racist), that's griefing.