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Rorqual - New mining platform
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Tiddle Jr
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1 - 2015-01-04 02:42:09 UTC
Since a lot of aside threads picking up the new wave of wishes of bigger mining ship including mining titan Roll

I'd consider to change Rorqual to that role - null sec mining beast with Capital Strip Miner l added to the game.

Vote for it or leave it!

"The message is that there are known knowns. There are things we know that we know. There are known unknowns. That is to say there are things that we now know we don't know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we don't know" - CCP
Petrified
Old and Petrified Syndication
#2 - 2015-01-04 03:00:22 UTC
Ah... but will people complain if it out-mines a Hulk? Blink

Personally, I would not mind, It would at least mean that the Rorqual could have one more justification to be used in a belt, outside a POS shield. But would it make it more unique in purpose and use? I don't see it being used any more for mining in a belt than it otherwise is used now in a belt. It is a lumbering and expensive ship to be in such a vulnerable position so the reward for that risk should be very great - especially if it has to turn on the industrial core to mine at peak proficiency.

Either way I want capital ranges on any capital strip miner...

Cloaking is the closest thing to a "Pause Game" button one can get while in space.

Support better localization for the Japanese Community.
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#3 - 2015-01-04 03:47:12 UTC  |  Edited by: FT Diomedes
I'd honestly be okay with the Rorqual being able to deploy its industrial core and gain massive bonuses to strip miners' range and mining amount. If you want to commit a ship that expensive to the belt for a five-minute cycle, you should able to mine more than a Hulk.

It's not like you will survive if anyone with friends finds you - unless you have more friends than they do, which makes it a conflict generator.

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

Tiddle Jr
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#4 - 2015-01-04 04:08:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Tiddle Jr
FT Diomedes wrote:
I'd honestly be okay with the Rorqual being able to deploy its industrial core and gain massive bonuses to strip miners' range and mining amount. If you want to commit a ship that expensive to the belt for a five-minute cycle, you should able to mine more than a Hulk.

It's not like you will survive if anyone with friends finds you - unless you have more friends than they do, which makes it a conflict generator.



It's a common question isk vs. risk

"The message is that there are known knowns. There are things we know that we know. There are known unknowns. That is to say there are things that we now know we don't know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we don't know" - CCP
Daoden
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2015-01-04 06:00:41 UTC
I see WH miners loving this idea since they can still close there system off
Gabriel Elarik
Celestiel Rams
#6 - 2015-01-04 07:16:30 UTC
i can see it a fleet of rorquals spidertanking mining and a fleet of drones for protection ehm exumers what are exumers :P
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2015-01-04 08:01:44 UTC
Sure, let the Rorqual mine. But with just 3 regular strips, no yield bonuses, and no more than 5 unbonused mining drones.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#8 - 2015-01-04 08:08:53 UTC  |  Edited by: FT Diomedes
Gabriel Elarik wrote:
i can see it a fleet of rorquals spidertanking mining and a fleet of drones for protection ehm exumers what are exumers :P


Spider tanking would not be possible in industrial mode. Catching these guys in a null sec belt: a couple of Interdictors or Interceptors keep them pinned long enough for a cyno to go up and you have the makings of a nice fight.

To make that at all worth it, a Rorqual in industrial mode, with a mining fit would have to mine at least as much as 2-3 maxed Hulks. Just make it mine almost nothing out of industrial mode.

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2015-01-04 08:49:37 UTC
FT Diomedes wrote:
To make that at all worth it, a Rorqual in industrial mode, with a mining fit would have to mine at least as much as 2-3 maxed Hulks. Just make it mine almost nothing out of industrial mode.

No, because it can do more than mine while it is mining.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
Gabriel Elarik
Celestiel Rams
#10 - 2015-01-04 09:22:20 UTC
Reaver Glitterstim let them dream but its true that the rorqual needs a new role and even ccp statet that they need to
address this problem i hope its not to far in the future and not something that dosnt get the rorqual out of the pos
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2015-01-04 12:42:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Reaver Glitterstim
Howabout a mining laser target painter which makes the targeted asteroid get mined faster by anyone else trying to mine it? You can target multiple asteroids if you fit multiple painters, but then you should probably be armor tanking. But hey, leave that up to the folks who bring em into belts. Also, Rorqual defenses should be brought up to par with carriers. It's kinda lacking. Since it already can't fit a triage module, why not let it have the powergrid to fit a proper tank+RR setup? And since it already can't fit drone control units, why not let it fly fighters? Just 5 fighters isn't so much.


edit: well I just had a thought: you could fit the Rorqual with 2 cap transfers and have it trade cap with a carrier which can repair itself and the Rorqual. Might work, except the carrier can't accept cap transfer while in triage mode, so it'll have kinda low output.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
Tiddle Jr
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#12 - 2015-01-04 13:16:35 UTC
That's for sureRorq need some love. But as I said before it's better to have it able to mine in a IC mode. This would require support.
it's shouldn't be a solo like mining pro.

"The message is that there are known knowns. There are things we know that we know. There are known unknowns. That is to say there are things that we now know we don't know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we don't know" - CCP
Gabriel Elarik
Celestiel Rams
#13 - 2015-01-04 13:49:54 UTC
the problem is the IC nobody will risk the rorqual if you have to stay at one place for 5 min if the cycletime gets reduced than maybe i would risk the rorqual with a timer betwen 30 and 90 sec + skill to reduce the time
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#14 - 2015-01-04 14:12:29 UTC
I EFT'd a Rorqual and Nidhoggur RR team, in which it was assumed that they would siege at the same time, so that if enemies showed up, the Nidhoggur would have improved self defense while it waited for a chance to save the Rorqual, and they would both come out of siege at the same time. I put full mining ganglinks on the Rorqual plus two cap transfers, and on the Nidhoggur I put two cap transfers, a remote shield booster, and a shield harmonizing ganglink--not enough capacitor or CPU to run another remote shield booster.

They both have an on-board shield booster and I did some shopping to try and save costs but wound up running probably over a bil in fittings for both of them, mostly from deadspace hardeners. The Rorqual with Industrial Core on can maintain a 5000 HP/s tank for 5 minutes, when it jumps down to just 1000 HP/s, but that should be just fine as the industrial core's cycle time is only 5 minutes. When out of siege, the Rorqual is barely cap stable running the shield booster plus receiving remote shield boosts, giving it a very decent 8000 HP/s sustained tank. The Nidhoggur doesn't do so well, however. It has very high max tank in triage mode but its capacitor runs out very quick due to its four crippling capacitor flux coils, with just around 6000 hp/s sustained while in triage mode. Once out, it gets even worse: while trading capacitor with the Rorqual, it is almost cap stable and can maintain just about 4000 HP/s tank on its weaker resistances and with only the onboard rep working for it.

I'm not sure how those values measure up in capital warfare, and I have no idea if I picked mods that were reasonably priced, but in any case it looks rather grim because I think any attacking gang will dive on the Nidhoggur and kill it, leaving the Rorqual defenseless. I don't really see any way to boost the Nidhoggur's defenses significantly without giving up on the Rorqual.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
Lugh Crow-Slave
#15 - 2015-01-04 14:21:03 UTC
Daoden wrote:
I see WH miners loving this idea since they can still close there system off


Oh the pretty KMs we roll into there hole when there is still 2 or so min on their cycle get the dics going untill we can get set up and then boom

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Ms Forum Alt
Doomheim
#16 - 2015-01-04 15:34:30 UTC
Hotdrop bait. Only an idiot would put a capital into an anom for hours on end. Silly idea needs to finally go away.
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#17 - 2015-01-05 00:38:57 UTC
Ms Forum Alt wrote:
Hotdrop bait. Only an idiot would put a capital into an anom for hours on end. Silly idea needs to finally go away.

A silly idea is to put a capital ship into the game that will virtually never see combat. It's a giant waste of jump drive and powergrid. And the main waste isn't that it has no use outside of protection, but that its use is not diminished when it is inside protection.

So right now, yes, only an idiot would put a Rorqual into an anomaly for hours on end. Other capitals may warrant it at times, however, depending on the anomaly and the subcap support. Of course this thread is attempting to suggest changes which may bring the Rorqual out of its little safe-nest and force it into danger for it to be effective, without making that just a completely useless move.

And your comment is deliberately destructive to that idea, shooting down the entire thread as well as the greater dream it is based on, as it you see nothing wrong with the current hiding Rorqual mechanics, and nothing right with attempting to fix that. Your comment is the problem, that attitude is not needed here. You are welcome to comment here but keep it constructive. If you think this whole thread is going in the wrong direction, try explaining why you feel that way, and point out some supporting evidence.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
Tiddle Jr
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#18 - 2015-01-05 02:47:13 UTC
Hmm, maybe one of those drama of losing afk Rorq?

Or just a troll alt.

"The message is that there are known knowns. There are things we know that we know. There are known unknowns. That is to say there are things that we now know we don't know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we don't know" - CCP
Barbara Nichole
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#19 - 2015-01-05 11:23:16 UTC
Petrified wrote:
Ah... but will people complain if it out-mines a Hulk? Blink

one truth I learned here a long time ago is people will complain regardless of which direction you go.

  - remove the cloaked from local; free intel is the real problem, not  "afk" cloaking -

[IMG]http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a208/DawnFrostbringer/consultsig.jpg[/IMG]
Ms Forum Alt
Doomheim
#20 - 2015-01-05 12:16:34 UTC
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:

And your comment is deliberately destructive to that idea, shooting down the entire thread as well as the greater dream it is based on, as it you see nothing wrong with the current hiding Rorqual mechanics, and nothing right with attempting to fix that. Your comment is the problem, that attitude is not needed here. You are welcome to comment here but keep it constructive. If you think this whole thread is going in the wrong direction, try explaining why you feel that way, and point out some supporting evidence.


Don't tell me where I'm welcome to comment and how, you Stalinist. I'm an elite Rorqual pilot and have invested a lot of skills into it in the past. Here's a previous thread I (my previous forum alt) started on the subject. And just FYI, here's what the Rorqual zkillboard looks like right now. The reason I show that is because it's true that often a Rorqual will adequately defend itself (efficiency 77.8%). But is a 77.8% chance of survival really good odds for a 2.5 billion ISK asset? I don't think it is.
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