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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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Improving the Hamsters

First post
Author
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#1 - 2014-12-30 20:11:41 UTC
<400 KB/sec on a 100 MB fiberoptic connection is ridiculous.
Either the hamsters need to be turbocharged or the server infrastructure with respect to downloads needs to be seriously overhauled. The EVE client is a 8.3 GB download for crying out loud. It's a huge impediment to attracting new players when you present them with a daunting 8+ hour download...

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.

Zed Rachalon
The Icarus Factor
#2 - 2014-12-30 20:16:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Zed Rachalon
I believe they said they are addressing this with a "Light Client" that does background loading of assets as they are requested much in the same way Blizzard does with their games.

Alternatively, they could let the launcher serve as a peering service to let you download some from them but the rest from other players who are currently getting the data. It should ease the strain on the hamsters and make the download faster.

Edit: Found It
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#3 - 2014-12-30 22:27:17 UTC
Zed Rachalon wrote:
I believe they said they are addressing this with a "Light Client" that does background loading of assets as they are requested much in the same way Blizzard does with their games.

Except at some point you're still going to have to download quite a bit (even in the background), and since this is optional you're still going to have a majority of players downloading the entire client. So the download speeds still suck.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.

Zan Shiro
Doomheim
#4 - 2014-12-31 02:06:04 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
The EVE client is a 8.3 GB download for crying out loud. It's a huge impediment to attracting new players when you present them with a daunting 8+ hour download...



Yes and no. If they own a console they should be used to this. Santa brought my son an xbox one. and a game. Put game in and It said hi, I need 7.7 gb patching to even join the game servers. It took longer than any eve client full pull I have ever done.


Server infrastructure also only part of the problem. Insert your favorite day after expansion whine thread here. Where 20 people take forever to download. And....20 people are dl'd, patched, and playing in minutes. It then breaks down to get better ISP arguments from there.

You see, ccp could have a huge massive pipe from source servers. Does them no good if an individual player's ISP does funky throttling schemes on their end.

example: I live overseas and support the military as a civilian.

I live off base, I get off base internet. I have no speed problems. If I am throttled, I don't see it.
People on base get a base ISP. They have massive speed issues. They throttle their network to the points its a joke really.

Both pull off the same interconnect to the island we are on. Japan doesn't have anti-monopoly rules. All roads lead to NTT (kind of like the Ma Bell back in the day from the states when Bell was the be all end all). You can be with ISP 1,2,3,4 or 5.....all roads lead to NTT's backbone.

My isp pays more to get a fatter pipe from there and doesn't throttle as much. Base's ISP pays less it seems, gets a much smaller pipe and then (heavily) throttles use to make sure they get some form of bandwidth to all its customers.

CCP having a 235345357934875983745 kb/s channel from their files servers is doing those people on base no good the tl;dr.

Not saying ccp shouldn't improve their stuff. Am saying they shouldn't be looking to take out a massive investment that could wreck profts for years when its benefits end of day still can be cut to shreds by a crappy ISP.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#5 - 2014-12-31 02:46:42 UTC
Zan Shiro wrote:
You see, ccp could have a huge massive pipe from source servers. Does them no good if an individual player's ISP does funky throttling schemes on their end.

Except there's no bandwidth issues on my end, so the hamsters are just damned slow.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.

Lugh Crow-Slave
#6 - 2014-12-31 02:53:27 UTC
just put eve on a new machine took 2:45 thats not all that long
Gabriel Elarik
Celestiel Rams
#7 - 2014-12-31 03:28:36 UTC
hey i life with 200kbs live with it
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#8 - 2014-12-31 03:41:55 UTC
Gabriel Elarik wrote:
hey i life with 200kbs live with it

Maybe you should upgrade your hamsters, too.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.

Gabriel Elarik
Celestiel Rams
#9 - 2014-12-31 03:47:41 UTC
in my region this is the most i can get
Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
#10 - 2014-12-31 04:00:36 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
<400 KB/sec on a 100 MB fiberoptic connection is ridiculous.
Either the hamsters need to be turbocharged or the server infrastructure with respect to downloads needs to be seriously overhauled. The EVE client is a 8.3 GB download for crying out loud. It's a huge impediment to attracting new players when you present them with a daunting 8+ hour download...

Ah the things I could do IF I had a 400kbs connection.
Instead of complaining about it count your blessings that you live in a place where you can get a connection that fast.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#11 - 2014-12-31 04:47:37 UTC
Donnachadh wrote:
Ah the things I could do IF I had a 400kbs connection.
Instead of complaining about it count your blessings that you live in a place where you can get a connection that fast.

That's kilobits - not kilobytes.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.

Zan Shiro
Doomheim
#12 - 2014-12-31 05:57:17 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Zan Shiro wrote:
You see, ccp could have a huge massive pipe from source servers. Does them no good if an individual player's ISP does funky throttling schemes on their end.

Except there's no bandwidth issues on my end, so the hamsters are just damned slow.



If a company upgraded aspects of their company to appease the fastest and bleeding edgiest (I will make up a word) full time they'd go broke.





If capital purchasing like what I am used to from my IT job a good year can be burned from the decision paper turn in to actually getting the gear at your shipping and receiving section. Bean counters make this process fun, then its political stuff...In that year that new gear is now "old" and not bleeding edge lol.

Then after that year, once in place it has to live long and prosper. While a bean counter may not know a cisco switch from a cisco router from a cisco ASA...they do know if they gave you say 750K+ funding say 2 years back to buy the stuff. Why you see a 3-5 year required in service life span common in IT. Look at higher end cisco ASA and router prices...you won't wonder why. They can be fun enough to get funding approved for 1 year out to be proactive if bean counters are being pricks tbh.


You are also thinking your personal little plan for your house. Business stuff its not so cut and dry. If they paid for what they had for just 1 user to use.....you would have your wish, and then some. They don't, they support 1000's of users and internal business needs.

To test, split up your uber connection across 100 users for starters (we will assume this won't violate your contract ofc, it will most likely though), report to us how great your speed is under high load.

Tacking on more lines or options not always an easy option. I have seen my companies internet bill for several networks that covers my local area, a site in mainland japan and a site in Korea.....I saw the amount and went damn, that's a lot of money. SO I ask the network manage do we pay that yearly. He just looked at me, laughed, and said try monthly.
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#13 - 2014-12-31 06:26:19 UTC
Ah yes, because there is no possibility that anything between CCP & your fibre connection could possibly be the slow down.
You sir, win the 'How the internet works' game this week.
Adrie Atticus
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#14 - 2014-12-31 07:11:09 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
<400 KB/sec on a 100 MB fiberoptic connection is ridiculous.
Either the hamsters need to be turbocharged or the server infrastructure with respect to downloads needs to be seriously overhauled. The EVE client is a 8.3 GB download for crying out loud. It's a huge impediment to attracting new players when you present them with a daunting 8+ hour download...


CCP uses HighWinds CDN services for assets and cloud services, please check that your ISP is not throttling traffic from US/that particular cloud service.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#15 - 2014-12-31 14:24:45 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Ah yes, because there is no possibility that anything between CCP & your fibre connection could possibly be the slow down.

Yes, like CCP.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.

Gawain Edmond
Khanid Bureau of Industry
#16 - 2014-12-31 14:30:51 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Zan Shiro wrote:
You see, ccp could have a huge massive pipe from source servers. Does them no good if an individual player's ISP does funky throttling schemes on their end.

Except there's no bandwidth issues on my end, so the hamsters are just damned slow.


I have no bandwidth issues on my end either only took me an hour to download the full client... you know it could be a problem your end after all
Liet Ormand
Sons of Bacchus
#17 - 2014-12-31 20:33:47 UTC
It took me about 20 minutes to download and install the client on a newly built PC two days ago.

I'm in Minnesota, US. My Internet provider is Comcast, who sucks in many ways but at least does deliver reasonable speed. I have a "business class" connection from them rated at 20 mbit download and 7 mbit upload, which I get most of the time.


CCP is very aware of the affect of network infrastructure on connectivity to their game, it's why they located Tranquility in London instead of in Iceland.

Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
#18 - 2015-01-01 17:45:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Donnachadh
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Donnachadh wrote:
Ah the things I could do IF I had a 400kbs connection.
Instead of complaining about it count your blessings that you live in a place where you can get a connection that fast.

That's kilobits - not kilobytes.

To quote Steve Martin "excuuuuusssseeee mmmmeee", a simple slip of the fingers.
Your connection is still considerably faster than anything I can get and since I am on a quote binge "don't worry be happy".

I checked with my son he is also on Comcast and it took him 18 minutes to download the complete client so it seems you have a problem on your end, or somewhere in between.
James Baboli
Warp to Pharmacy
#19 - 2015-01-02 19:42:49 UTC
I wouldn't mind seeing CCP adding a p2p option to the launcher while they are screwing with how the client is downloading and what is needed, but please leave it optional.

Talking more,

Flying crazier,

And drinking more

Making battleships worth the warp

ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#20 - 2015-01-02 19:59:04 UTC
Let me assure you that CCP feeds their Hamsters with the best rodent food available on the market and have high grade training facilities for them, all to assure they can outrun Speedy Gonzales if it comes down to speed. (They might even get some 'extra's' at times when needed from shady doctors for that extra wide eyed foam-at-mouth boost).

Anyway, as this is neither a proposal for a new feature or a new idea, this thread gets a lock.

ISD Ezwal Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)