Player Features and Ideas Discussion

It's one step towards balancing high-sec mechanics properly.
I keep hearing this same one argument about this, "ooooh but outside of highsec you have to deal with awoxers, why is highsec special". Ummm, because it's high-sec. There is CONCORD in highsec. Stupid that it was ever allowed to begin with.

But you want to know what really makes the game like a themepark MMO? When awoxers in highsec can't grow a pair and do the same thing in null or WH. if people are going to quit over this its not because of themepark anything, its because they are too sissy to do their awox thing against non highsec corps who actually know how to fight back. the real themeparkers are the awoxers.

adapt or die is how this works.

Can I ahve your stuff, I promise to put a reasonable portion of your stuff towards ganking people with too much wealth if you do.

this isn't about balancing HS or LS or null it is about how currently you need at least some level of trust when you are in a corp with other people something most games don't require.

making it so you could queue up some one to be kicked after DT made seance as it didn't remove the need for trust just some of the headache after some one broke it

EDIT: To be honest if your smart and don't fly super shiny crap around some one you don't trust an awoxer can't do much maybe get 1-2 ships and thats it(with the ability to shoot corp members)

It simply seems that awoxing is a legimitely legalized way of high-sec ganking with concord-workaround, supported by ccp.
Marking suspect will do. So, if attacked player decides he was mistakenly shot, no action will take place. If the intention is bad, then victim will have an option to shoot back :)

Why so many players rely on shooting in high-sec without concord involved? Oh yes, you want actions without consequences. Right ^.^

Some thoughts on posts by others.


Asking for full API keys may work for nul, low and WH corps, if you ask for a full API key for a high sec corp and most players will tell you exactly where to stuff your request especially the newbies making this almost irrelevant when taling about high sec corps.


I doubt seriously that the casual players would care if Star Citizen became a thing in this game it is far more likely to affect the vets such as yourself. But in basic I agree with you that EVE becoming more like Star Citizen would not be a good thing.
Besides that it is those casual players that make up the largest percentage of the player base in EVE and they are the ones most likely to pay for their subscriptions and to buy plex to convert to ISK so keeping them in game should be high on your priorities list. And I have to wonder if giving up high sec AWOXing in exchange for keeping the cash cow of casual player may not be best for this game as a whole?

Multiples here extracted and combined due to quote limitations in a post.

I doubt very much that high sec AWOXing adds a "significant amount" of content to this game. In fact I doubt very much that most of the players in this game would even notice if AWOXing was removed.

The acts of AWOXing that have made news outside of this game were likely done to/in a nul sec corp and removing AWOXing from high sec would have no affect on these nul/low sec situations.

AWOXing is not something that encourages most new players to stick around this game. In fact it is likely to have the opposite affect and drive many more out of the game than it would keep in the game.

Removal of concord free intra corp aggression is not removal of Awoxing for a start.
All the examples of awoxing that have made the media have been of the corporate theft variety, which will still exist
Also you can scam your target into going suspect, or following you to low or dueling you or.....
There are still a whole list of ways which you can awox.

What removal of concord free intra corp aggression will do is remove a weird exception to high sec rules.

Not really. They can still steal, spy, scout etc.
And removing a little bit of the psych eval needed for EVE corp applications won't really hurt the game.

'Significant' was used in a literal sense. If it wasnt significant, we wouldnt be talking about it. No one would care if it was removed or not if it were insignificant. The Mittani wouldnt make articles on his news site proposing ideas to remove it if it were insignificant. This is also why part of your second statement is false.

It doesnt matter where AWOXing happens. The act carries the same spark of drama and player interactions everywhere, and THAT is eve. The players reading the articles come into the game expecting to be able to do something similar no matter what area of space they are in. If you are arguing that its ok to get rid of hi-sec AWOXing because it doesnt feature in mainstream news, then i expect you also think hi-sec PvE and hi-sec skirmish PvP should be removed. Right? No. Exactly.

The new players that leave because of AWOXing are more than likely the kind of players looking for a themepark. They dont like ganking, they dont like corp thieves. They come here to 'level up their raven' then leave a few months down the line, mistaking the ease of accessing even advanced ships as the 'end game'. If there is any kind of player that has little to fear from AWOXing, its new players who can quickly bounce back. The players who supposedly fear AWOXing are vets, which is why some players (the mittani included) believe the risk of AWOXing creates a fear of recruiting new players (though actually asking people who dont like to recruit new players why they dont like recruiting new players, as i have done, has yet to be met with the answer 'cause AWOXers').

Anyways, some quotes regarding just one notorious AWOX (and yes, theft) incident:





Sources:
http://www.computerandvideogames.com/180867/features/murder-incorporated/
https://truestories.eveonline.com/truestories/ideas/1025-guiding-hand-social-clubs-uqs-contract-or-the-heist-where-mirial-and-ubiqua-seraph-have-a-bad-day.html

This kind of game play is exactly what we came here for. To be empowered with the ability, the choice, to be wicked or heroic. Space bro or space bastard. To play against the wits of other players; not just their piloting skills, their economic size or their SP. Removing AWOXing would take away part of that, you are certainly adding restrictions. You are certainly removing player choice.

In my experience, the vast majority of players dnt mind a full api. its actually increased in popularity as a requirement a lot over the past few years. I've only ever been denied once after asking for a full api, and thats easily out of hundreds.

That 'psych eval' is the difference between good recruitment and blindly accepting anyone for free corp tax. The former puts in work and is prudent, the latter is greedy and reckless. Why the hell shouldnt that carry rewards and risk respectively?

/wall of text

You are just making things up.

All corps worth anything ask for APIs, high sec or not. Looking in recruitment chat and in the adverts, most of them list API as a requirement for joining. And they are all high sec.

Don't want to get AWOXed? Check APIs. If somebody doesn't want to give it? Don't accept them.

No excuses.



And saying that the casuals are the ones that are more likely to stick with the game? That is also BS. The hardcore players are the ones that will stay with the game, the casuals are the ones that will leave once a new game piques their interest.

If they stay with the game, they won't be "casuals". If they spend real money on a game they aren't "casual" either. You just defined a hardcore player and called it casual.

No, you've missed the point. And they are applicable to the discussion, they have inspired players to join the game and go AWOX in hi-sec, to steal in hi-sec, to be a general space bastard.





it really doesnt matter where it happens. its inspiring game play (clearly), it is interesting, dramatic, emotional. It rewards effort, it punishes lazy greed. It gives players choices.

taking it away adds nothing to gameplay. And the reasons people say it should happen?:

- it helps new players get into a corp.
No it doesnt. No corp that flat out rejects applications from new players does so because of AWOXing. By far the most common reason was because they dont have the time and patience to teach new players about the game. Second was because new players rarely stick around for long. Then it was because they had skill intensive doctrines. and the lowest on the list was because of spies and thieves. AWOXing is never mentioned.

The affect AWOXing has on Corps is that they often screen recruits, this is a meaningful choice. Removing hi-sec AWOXing will not get noobs into corps they couldnt before. it instead makes corp screening meaningless and encourages corps to accept applications blindly, whether the owner intends to do anything with his corp mates or not. It does not promote gameplay, it does not help new players. It does nothing useful or interesting.

- Its an unintuitive mechanic.
Do you know what other unintuitive mechanics there are that often catch out or confuse noobs?

- Flying a bigger, more expensive ship that takes more SP to fly does not make you automatically win a fight.
- You train skills by time, not by performing actions
- hi-sec is not 100% safe/there is no non-pvp area.
- What constitutes as griefing in other games, is viable gameplay within eve.
- Loss is permanent. What gets destroyed, stays destroyed.
- Player driven economy rather than only seeded items.

Does it come as a surprise to you that some of eve's best features are unintuitive? Eve is an unintuitive game. Thats why we have this learning curve. Thats why we tell new players: 'Forget everything you know about other MMO's. Eve is not like other MMO's'.

unintuitive =/= bad.



You could easily get around any problem with AWOXing with two changes:

- corp lites
- Make AWOXers go suspect, limited engagement would be even better (thinking of you RvB).

If this doesnt make you happy, then you want your cake and to eat it too.