Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Black Ops and Marauders get an unfair docket, so much training for not much reward.

It is the way of things, sorry to say.

I support this in everyway possible but I honestly hope they fix Black Ops before Marauders.

That's kinda the point though. It needs fixed. Marauders need buffed.

And forums ate my first post twice. Thank god for copy/paste.

Well the scan res penalty really sucks in pve, same as the sensor strength, if you do guristas or Incursion with them.

The worst thing in my opinion however is the active tank bonus, it doesn't offer so much more performance for missions(actually it is plain inferior to the resistance bonus in a min/maxed L4 fitting that only has to survive damage spikes reasonable well w/o so much permatank ability's given you have a solid DPS application) and it is kind of bad for group based PVE, where you relay on RR and ships like the Abaddon actually offer the much better tanks whit the far lower sig. This is bad because some Marauders actually hitting a very heavy demand her(last time I checked you seen 25-50% of a Assault fleet in Palas, since it is the armor tanked med to long range tach based DPS ship).

I think a slight buff to marauders would be nice.

I'd really like to see the class get a fourth utility high slot. The way I see it, that fourth would allow an even mix of tractors and salvagers which would help the class fulfill its on-the-fly salvaging role just a bit better. The class wouldn't encroach on the Noctis's ability, since it doesn't receive the tractor speed and the salvager reduction in cycle time bonus. (And also, that fourth slot would allow me to put the four guns on my Kronos at the front banks, instead of having to spread them out over the ship, in a glorious display of OCD visual cohesion. Seriously, those forward banks are the perfect place for the guns, yet one of those slots is the eighth and therefore missing slot?)


The lacking T2 resists bother me as well, because it just conflicts with nearly every other T2 class out there. I feel it to be a precarious precedent. If the idea behind T2 ships includes heightened resists against the racial enemy, then why the discrepancy with marauder (and black ops) resists. Their resists don't quite live up to those T2 standards.

The whole weak sensor strength and scan resolution thing I don't mind so much. Even though the reasoning - to discourage the use of marauders in PvP - seems kinda hollow. A determined pilot will fly any ship he damn well wants, regardless of price or stats.

My 2 ISK.

I haven't looked too closely at the others, but as I noted above, the Golem sucks. If I got a CNR with my skills right now, the tradeoffs with a perfect skill Golem would be that it's better against small ships and can salvage, but has less tank since it lacks the third CCC rig. (Or you use torps and instead sacrifice a ton of range.)
Now if I get those missile and shield skills up higher, that CNR will easily tank better, and will largely make up for being worse against small ships by having higher raw DPS. Only it costs half as much as the Golem, and I wouldn't need five+ months of training to get it there.

I was actually NOT talking about a Golem, I can fly one, but don't have much experience with it at all. Paladin gets a damage bonus, sure, but it's based on the Marauder skill, which is f'ing stupid.

I KNEW someone would bring up marauders in pvp. I counter your argument with the heavy use of pirate faction bs's in pvp. Nuff said.

And I totally forgot about that with the Vargur. Fitting an entire rack of 1400mm arties is more or less impossibru. With nothing else fit at all, they still take up more pg than the Vargur has... wtf?

Maybe back in the day, they could be killing machines, but now, not so much. Faction bs's totally out class them.

It has to do with price. A navy Geddon cost only 200 mil, and gives you one more slot and ~40% more base hp. An Abaddon is only 50 mil cheaper, for less hp, fewer slots, larger sig, and slower speed.

I doubt marauder will see much use, with low hp buffer and joke of a grid, not to mention sensor strength.

The key here is to save a slot or two on the tank, compared to faction BS in this setups to make marauders actually a very good choice for this PVE content compared to faction BS. This is a mixed problem of them, having a slot less and far less raw HP, that makes faction BS superior after reasonable tanks you will end up on them with more slots for DPS or utility. The scan res penalty is just limiting them in solo pvp(pointless in my opinion, since non of them has what it takes to challenge the mach here, while it also sucks for PVE). Fleets of marauders are not practical, since you can get for the same ISK also fleets of capitals(that got serious rr tanks) or fleets of machs, that combine the speed with the alpha to useful levels. The resistance bonus is a 33% EHP bonus to the tanking layer, a 33% active tanking bonus and a 33% RR bonus, the active tanking bonus is only useful for L4, where it isn't even better than the resist bonus to begin with.

I'm not after creating the ultimate RR BS gang(a concept from the past anyway) but having the ships a more dedicated choice compared to faction BS in her PVE niche.

the paladin has a bonus for local repairer which is OK for PVE. It would be interesting to see what would happen if it would also get a bonus for remote repping. It would still have the great sensor strength weakness, very expensive etc, but thats all fine ;)

That was exactly my point. The argument against buffing t2 BS's for pvp (or pve for that matter) is that it will effectively remove t1 BS's from the game. This is not true so long as they don't go with an SC style buff and make them virtually indestructible. The current navy and pirate faction BS's (excluding machariel) are very well balanced against the t1 lineup and each other. T2 BS's as a whole are not, they are exceptionally underwhelming compared to other ships with similar prices (pirate BS's namely) for both pve and pvp.

I actually think the bonuses on marauders are fine as is. What they need is some more fitting resources, and un-nerfed sensors. BO's as already stated require a much more substantial redesign.

Edit: I should probably mention that the navy geddon isn't that much better than an abaddon, it's just different. Both ships come in at around 350k EHP with slaves and a legion booster. The difference between them is the navy geddon does around 20% more dps while the abaddon has better resists and thus tanks better with logi on field. I consider them more or less equals and which I fly depends on whether I need more dps or more tank.