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How do you guys quickly initiate combat when engaging a target?

Author
Le'gend
Perkone
Caldari State
#1 - 2014-12-22 21:16:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Le'gend
Hey there,

I am getting back into pvp and have been flying a lot of small ships like intys and t2 frigs. When I engage a target I get very flustered, killing my chances of survival. Many times, after starting a fight I will realize my prop is not on or my weapons are not overheated. I know that practice makes a better pilot, but I want to be practicing right...

My question is what is your engage pattern?.... Like the actual keystrokes and mouse clicks.

I will post mine and maybe you guys can help me out.

- Land on grid
- Double click space to begin moving (this sometimes fails as I tend to jump the gun before finishing warp)
- Click weapons, prop, point
- Click target, set orbit
- Check distance and overheat

Normally by this time, because this series of clicks and keystrokes is not habit, I am left with very little map awareness. Most times I fumble a set and am destine to be floating in my pod shortly, especially against skilled players. Any tips would be very helpful on how optimally use small ships for quick engagements.
Jean Luc Lemmont
Carebears on Fire
#2 - 2014-12-22 21:25:21 UTC
If you're planning to overheat, do it before you even get out of warp. You can always turn it off later, but it does no good if you never get the chance to turn it on.

Make sure your most common used modules are on your Fbar, that way you can face roll across your function keys and turn them on.

Move passive modules to the bottom row out of the way. This will help prevent clicking the wrong module in the heat of battle.
Always try and lay out your Fbar the same - for example

F1 - Point
F2 - Web
F3 - Grouped Weapons
F4 - Prop Mod

etc etc

By laying it out in the same order on every ship (or as closely as possible) the location of any given mod becomes a matter of muscule memory and you will spend less time looking at your modules and more time looking at the target.

And by Fbar I mean the Top level of modules on your hud. These are the ones you can activate with a single button press, instead of holding shift or some other key combination.

Mine is usually laid out as follows:
Top Level: Stuff I can't use until I end my warp (Weapons, point, webs, etc)
Mid Level: Stuff I can turn on anytime (tank, sebos, etc)
Bottom Level: Passive Mods

When I hit grid, I immediately press F1 F2 F3 etc and then Ctrl click my target - as soon as it locks, any effects that are in range will fire immediately, reducing time to deliver that effect.

Will I get banned for boxing!?!?!

This thread has degenerated to the point it's become like two bald men fighting over a comb. -- Doc Fury

It's bonuses, not boni, you cretins.

Le'gend
Perkone
Caldari State
#3 - 2014-12-22 21:36:00 UTC
I think what has been really screwing me up is that I have been focusing on getting moving as my first priority. I see that you put your prop mod last, I will do the same from now on. What do you watch for to ensure you are out of warp?
Candygram Landshark
Volatile Concept
House of Voodoo
#4 - 2014-12-22 21:48:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Candygram Landshark
when dropping out of warp i click target and spam orbit (preset for optimal range) then f1/f2 etc. only difference from jean is i'd have a prop mod in the early f keys and throw the web further down the line n hold off a sec. a web may hasten ur target into warp.ensure u have the point 1st.

distance dependent. if ur within point range when u fall out of warp then lock 1st, point and then orbit or vice versa when out of range
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#5 - 2014-12-23 00:22:00 UTC
My engagement usually goes like this:
1. Jump into Vlillirier
2. Notice some dude in a remote sensor boosted Keres on gate with two Hyenas and 15 fighters orbiting gate as well.
3. Warp pod to station.
4. Pod dies due to smart bombing thorax at station.

Before the latest changes:
5. Update clone, and move out.

Now:
5. Thank the guys for a quick ride back to the clone station. Turn in an incursus for a comet with FW LP, and head out.


Liam Inkuras
Furnace
Meta Reloaded
#6 - 2014-12-23 01:27:07 UTC
XG seems to be taking the hostile takeover of his system quite well.

I wear my goggles at night.

Any spelling/grammatical errors come complimentary with my typing on a phone

Arla Sarain
#7 - 2014-12-23 01:29:23 UTC
Start with kiting ships. Your initial 2 thoughts are - keep at range (typically bad practice, but ok in this situation), turn your prop mod on.
Then tackle.
Then solopwn.

As you get more confident start flying ships that get closer. Scram kite, then brawl.
Gully Alex Foyle
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2014-12-23 08:26:21 UTC
If I'm flying a brawler:

0. Pre-overheat some mods as soon as I enter system. Usually this means guns and ancillary reppers, they're just perma-overheated.

1. Pre-overheat any other mods that need to be oh'd for the specific engagement. Typically prop mod and/or webs depending on the engagement.

2. As I land on-grid, click on hostile on overview

3. Press CTRL, then press either Q, W or E (approach, orbit, keep at range) depending on ship/engagement

4. Press F1, F2, F3 for guns+web+scram, or other relevant F keys depending on fit

5. Press 1 for prop mod (I mapped midslots to 1-8, since they're directly under f1-f8 on my keyboard)

6. If I have them, launch drones by dragging the (preset) folder into space, spam 'F' key until I see 'drones engaging XXX'

7. Go grab a coffee Lol


Remember that you DO have 10 seconds of immunity after you exit warp. Before someone says it's a myth, I tested it. It works like this:

- Your ship is out-of-warp and can do stuff (move, point, etc.) as soon as you start seeing numbers on your speed gauge
- Until you actually do stuff, you're immune to other people's actions - this lasts about 10 seconds


Another technical thing. As anyone will tell you, there's no such thing as 'passive alignment'. Meaning that when your speed is zero, the direction your ship model is facing doesn't mean anything.

BUT... when you exit warp your speed is not zero, it's a few m/s in the direction of warp. That means that if you spam double click in the direction you were facing while warping, your ship will accelerate faster than if you double-click in any other direction, because it won't need to turn. You shave off about a second, maybe even less, depending on the agility of your ship.

This can be useful for kiters to pull range from warp-in, though in my experience it's a bit of a hit-and-miss thing anyway depending on where you land relative to the hostile (also because the sig bloom from your MWD makes it easy for him to lock you quickly).

Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!

Gully Alex Foyle
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2014-12-23 08:31:43 UTC
Le'gend wrote:
What do you watch for to ensure you are out of warp?
See my post above.

You're out of warp when numbers start appearing on your speed gauge (NOT when the blue bar starts shrinking).

But if I want to be fast, I usually don't watch that, I spam 'CTRL' (see the sequence above) until I hear the sound of the locking sequence initiating, then I go to the next steps.

Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!

Zen Guerrilla
CTRL-Q
Ushra'Khan
#10 - 2014-12-23 18:25:08 UTC
I think the first thing i do is sort out range, then i lock target, turn on mods and when that is established i look at my target. Mostly in that order.

After that it's managing reps/heat/range/speed/ammo/dscan until one of us dies.

pew pew

Le'gend
Perkone
Caldari State
#11 - 2014-12-23 19:13:50 UTC
When targeting, if I cntrl click on a target it initiates targeting... If I click again does it cancel? I am away for the holiday so can't test it. I have this hot keyed to my keypad and for some reason it feels like it cancels the process of targeting when I click a second time. It might just be me jumping the gun again.
Aladar Dangerface
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2014-12-23 23:19:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Aladar Dangerface
Le'gend wrote:
When targeting, if I cntrl click on a target it initiates targeting... If I click again does it cancel? I am away for the holiday so can't test it. I have this hot keyed to my keypad and for some reason it feels like it cancels the process of targeting when I click a second time. It might just be me jumping the gun again.

No. Only way to remove a target is to press unlock (as far as I know anyway).

I don't need twitter. I'm already following you.

Rengas
AQUILA INC
Verge of Collapse
#13 - 2014-12-24 17:14:02 UTC
X Gallentius wrote:
My engagement usually goes like this:
1. Jump into Vlillirier
2. Notice some dude in a remote sensor boosted Keres on gate with two Hyenas and 15 fighters orbiting gate as well.
3. Warp pod to station.
4. Pod dies due to smart bombing thorax at station.

Before the latest changes:
5. Update clone, and move out.

Now:
5. Thank the guys for a quick ride back to the clone station. Turn in an incursus for a comet with FW LP, and head out.



This is mostly accurate. Although now we sometimes have up to 35 fighters.
Gl Orious
AQUILA INC
Verge of Collapse
#14 - 2014-12-25 03:19:14 UTC
My engagement usually goes like this:
1. Target appears
2. Approach target
3. Wait for target to explode
4. Activate smartbombs
Zappity
New Eden Tank Testing Services
#15 - 2014-12-26 08:44:08 UTC
1. Overheat everything, even prop if you have to get on top of them.
2. Ctrl+click to lock.
3. While locking, Q to approach and F1-F3 (usually guns, scram, web). If doing this manually alway apply scram before web because otherwise you are helping them into warp.
4. Drones (I always forget this bit).

Use FRAPS or similar. It REALLY helps to figure out what you need to do differently. You will probably be shocked by how much you have missed during the fight.

Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.

Justin Zaine
#16 - 2014-12-27 02:43:47 UTC
"Those who fail to plan, plan to fail" - Some dude

I've been curious about this myself and the way I look at it, it's all about setting yourself up for success as much as you possibly can. That means developing a pattern, muscle memory and using shortcuts that work for you. #Ergonimics. While efficiency is a subjective assessment, I'll show you my setup:

- 1,2,3 and 4 on the Keyboard are for approach, align, keep at range and orbit respectively.
- E, R, C and B are drone controls for engage, return and orbit, re-connect and return to bay.
- Up and down on the Direction pad are for full speed and stop ship.
- Warp to is ~
- Toggle lock is the space bar.

This allows me to maintain a comfortable and natural left hand position on the keyboard. Fingers rest on top of the 1-4 keys, thumb on the space bar. If I need to warp out it's a quick pinky slide to the left. Drone controls are also speedy, because E and R are easily accessible with the index finger while the rest of the hand still maintains position.

All other controls are done manually. Activating mods is done with the mouse.


My process:

- Overheat (Or double check that everything has been overheated,) during warp.

- Immediately after coming out of warp, space bar + left mouse click to begin locking and immediately afterwards, hold down the appropriate 1-4 key + left click the target to begin moving. Usually i'm brawling so more often than not i'm pressing 4 to get in close and orbit. Note that this initial command takes you at a default path to the target in a straight line which is bad for transversal and small ships. I usually reassess a second or two later and manually pilot to correct trajectory, this is just to begin moving.

- Once I begin moving I use the mouse to manually activate prop mods and any other mods that need to be turned on at that range/time. I dislike using shortcuts for mods because doing it manually forces me to look at the mod slots and visualize whether or not anything has been forgotten, and if I forgot to overheat something. Doing it manually also prevents me from deactivating anything in a button-mashing panic, which occasionally still happens because i'm kinda bad.

- Then I reorient myself and begin manually piloting, keeping a close eye on the range and trajectory so that I know when to manually turn on guns and points, webs, whatever.

This all happens in a matter of seconds and there's a variation on key strokes depending on what the situation is, naturally, but so far this setup and shortcuts have been working well for me and is the most efficient process i've come up with.

Curious to see what other people do.

He will win who knows when to fight and when not to fight.

He will win who, prepared himself, waits to take the enemy unprepared.

Sean Parisi
Blackrise Vanguard
#17 - 2014-12-27 03:22:44 UTC
I call them little girls and chickens until they lock me. With autolock enabled. All modules enabled. Walk away from the computer, work. Come back and then I loot.
Domino Vyse
FeedingMachine
#18 - 2014-12-27 13:30:45 UTC
If you are fumbling and ending up dead, you are just overthinking it.

Nobody has a rigid engagement plan like these nonces are implying, target and go, simple.

Schmata Bastanold
In Boobiez We Trust
#19 - 2014-12-28 10:15:49 UTC
Fly brawling bricks. All you have to do is throw yourself in their general direction and win dps race. Everything else is secondary at best.

Invalid signature format

Burtakus
Lone W0lf Society
#20 - 2014-12-30 02:13:41 UTC
My typical engagement plan is as follows:

Spam D-Scan to find a target or targets or if I jump into a gate camp how can I get out with a) my ship and b) my pod

Once found, develop a plan of attack based on how the ships types are typically fit and flown and adjust for knowns such as pilots in local which can change how certain ships are fit and if the engagement point will be in space or at a FW plex. I typically do this while in warp to where said targets are.

The engagement plan focuses on which mods to pre-heat and priorities when I land and contingencies if one of these fail.
Priorities include in typical but not concrete order of precedence:
1) Control Range
2) Tackle
3) Apply DPS
4) Manage module activation, deactivation, and heat
5) Check d-scan for incoming hostiles that will support the target(s)
6) Check local for new entrants
7) Plan an exit strategy
8) What support can I call on if something juicy shows up and I can hold tackle

Once engaged its a matter of constantly adjusting the engagement plan to account for bad assumptions and adjusting to the flow of the engagement.
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