EVE General Discussion

I think it really a steady and expected erosion

because this is what happens when a lot of people gather together

the few force ccp to ruin it for the many

*tin hat* and there is probably crazies who live for the chance to destroy peoples enjoyment as the have no emotion what so ever and the eve community enrages them

*likes the tin hat look...so shiny*

This has done so much damage to the gaming industry.

The basic precept that has spread is that you can have social rules in a game and then you have people who break those rules to win and that is fine. Effectively it has encouraged the exploitation of poor game design and weaknesses in the code to player advantage to the point that players come to rely on it and will cry, whine and quit if you fix it.

There are other goals in games.

Example: In the days of Quake I would do things like see the top scoring guy run along a ledge and into a tunnel, drop a rocket at my feet, launch into the air, shoot and kill him then drop to my death. I timed telefrags. I would be on low health spray people in a room with nails and run into the water to electrocute us all.

I did not play to win and I still had as much fun as anyone. In fact, more people had fun because they didn't keep dying to the same guy over and over and they got to see him die sometimes for some vicarious revenge.

I feel a real sandbox gives you the freedom to fail. It gives you the freedom to set your own goals. It gives everyone an equal amount of sand to make sand castles or throw their sand at someone else.

I like the skill requirements. Love them. It is a filter for the impatient, which is often the immature. I hate interceptors and destroyers, one is a free ticket to skip past a control mechanism for little cost and time and the other is far too much damage for little cost and effort.

I like games with Darwin steps.
Anarchy Online had the most simple Darwin step. I would sometimes log on and just stand in the teleport tower of the newbie area. People would come in, bump and bump and bump against the doors of the teleporters. Think that is the end of their free game, sit down and log off.
They never thought to read up on it. Never thought to try something else. Never even asked anyone if there was a way past it.
Good riddance.

Just look at console games; with so many of them you can cut the game right out and just watch the cut scenes. It is complete spoon feeding to people demanding immediate self gratification.

Accomplishment comes from over coming adversity and having to think around a problem.

false. your social rules are imagined to begin with, and self-imposed.






^interceptors and destroyers being OP is also a separate issue from skills. whether someone has the skills or not, you flat out dislike them.

The dev blog with the blurred table obscuring the ship was comedy. The rhetoric about aesthetics was good too.

I'm willing to take your word for it, kinda, not really. The guns were adjusted to match missiles, and as for the T2 skills that matter to me, the ship skills are still lopsided. You don't realize the payoff of each level of the cruiser skill until you have them trained completely. That's just a time wall, and all kinds of incremental motivation lost. I understand T2 skills being limited to upgraded accounts, but the only reason people want to keep the Level V prerequisites is tradition for the sake of tradition.

devs still have "because specialization / specialization is what specialization is" mantra repeating in their minds.

I have all that trained across my characters. keep it sucky if you like, just keep the servers running while I'm subbed.

whatev

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Hey CCP

you wouldn't need permadeath characters with 20 mil instant SP if a new player can have that golem in ten days (that you are thinking about enabling with permadeath clones). A 10 day marauder pilot will be practically permadeath.

seems like a lot of hoops to jump through when you could just stop being difficult about skilling.

permadeath clones are about appeasing players who just can't wait, right. new players, even? because it's bad and you know it's bad? Isn't it just better overall to have immortal clones instead, rather than wiping a player's slate and giving them several opportunities to walk away from EVE, each time they permadie?

another way to look at it: permadeath = permaquit. you need SP accumulation as an investment to keep players.

if you think moving from sunk costs to prospective costs is a good idea, pass it to the left.

Iceland is remote enough, but ok. the deal breaker is knowing everyone I work with wants to jeopardize my livelihood.

I would vote for you if you wouldn't have to go public with your real life ...
... destroying my illusion of you being a sexy redhead with black lipstick.

Too bad.

Frands? Friends?

Friends?????

If you want me to gather people who will vote for you ...
... you better pay the bill for the PR efforts.

Personally, it is more fun to discredit all the others.

Did you know Sabriz hates babies?

any player with a credit card can currently buy a character and ISK for a titan. I can't believe you're running for CSM.

wait. yes I can.

Gratification is one of the reasons people play video games. Using delayed gratification for sitting in a ship is bass ackwards and wrong. A lower skilled ship is a weaker ship, and I'm pretty sure this game is fun for the rope we have to hang ourselves. Which is what a weak skilled ship would be. Is CCP in the business of looking out for players and making sure they train solid core skills now? T2 skills don't even make sense, and they're also completely different from each other. You can't even call them a solid foundation of core skills. They're all just separate hurdles of time.

Table of T2 ship skills, by named T2 role and their level V requirements. Explain this one, CSM hopeful. convince me why a time barrier is good, when it's the only reason there's room for some frankenstein permadeath clone mechanic.

wonderful communication. thank you.

I may have gotten sidetracked, but yes. permadeath clones with 20 mil SP, apparently I'm not the only one who wants to fast track new players into high SP ships.

for what it's worth, EVE is a hilarious example of players and devs subscribing to bad game design and fallacies... mostly involving the idea of "core" gameplay. I could go play other fun games, but that would be a cop out. This is just too good a case study to leave.

The core gameplay fallacy, involving space ships shooting each other. It's directly connected to the problem of why... EVE can't break the ceiling of subscription numbers, at 1/10th, 1/20th, 1/50th of other MMOs.

from Sirlin game balance handout, this graphic of the core gameplay fallacy.

The larger grey area is all the players CCP doesn't have playing EVE, due to catering to the rabblers and monument shooters, and players who think all this bad game design is worthwhile.

Now that I've explained it simply, all I can hope is that it sinks in for more people. And this is, in fact, relevant to OP.

I have a viewpoint, granted. My viewpoint is that freedom of choice is a good thing.

I'm also interested in listening to viewpoints of other people, which is why I phrased the original post as a question, not an outright statement of fact.

I'm willing to listen to other people's opinions, consider them and accept the possibility that my viewpoint might be wrong after considering them.

That seems reasonable to me.

But then again I might be mistaken.