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Question regarding legality of paying someone for their services

First post
Author
Herdo Armas
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#1 - 2014-12-21 21:35:01 UTC
Hello everyone. I'm looking to have a piece of third-party software built for trading and tracking my profits, etc. I was wondering if anyone here knows the legality of paying someone with "real world" money to build said software.

I've looked over the EULA and it seems pretty straight forward and seems to apply to items, objects, etc within "the game environment". I figured I'd just ask here before pursuing this to make sure.

Here is the section mentioned:

B. Selling Items and Objects

You may not transfer, sell or auction, or buy or accept any offer to transfer, sell or auction (or offer to do any of the foregoing), any content appearing within the Game environment, including without limitation characters, character attributes, items, currency, and objects, other than via a permitted Character Transfer as described in section 3 above. You may not encourage or induce any other person to participate in such a prohibited transaction. The buying, selling or auctioning (or any attempt at doing so) of characters, character attributes, items, currency, or objects, whether through online auctions, newsgroups, postings on message boards or any other means is prohibited by the EULA and a violation of CCP's proprietary rights in the Game.


To be honest, it doesn't really matter to me. If it's not allowed I can buy PLEX to convert to ISK as payment, but it would limit me to finding someone who actively plays EVE and doesn't mind being paid with virtual currency.

Thanks again.
Pete Butcher
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2014-12-21 21:56:53 UTC
1. Don't pay anyone and use evernus for tradingSmile
2. There's a clause in 3rd party dev license, if I recall correctly, that allows donations in isk.

http://evernus.com - the ultimate multiplatform EVE trade tool + nullsec Alliance Market tool

Herdo Armas
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#3 - 2014-12-21 22:07:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Herdo Armas
Pete Butcher wrote:
1. Don't pay anyone and use evernus for tradingSmile
2. There's a clause in 3rd party dev license, if I recall correctly, that allows donations in isk.


Thanks, I love Evernus, however I need something with more up to date information. The "Trade Adviser" is very outdated. That could completely be me simply using it wrong.

I just need something that can give me up to date Jita buy, Jita sell, markup, profit per item, volume traded per day, etc.

Something like this to put it simply:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kPHHfQkKIqg

EDIT: I guess I should just ask this here. Where is the data for the trade adviser coming from? I saw on your Reddit post that the prices should be accurate within a few minutes.
Pete Butcher
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2014-12-21 22:14:14 UTC
Herdo Armas wrote:
Pete Butcher wrote:
1. Don't pay anyone and use evernus for tradingSmile
2. There's a clause in 3rd party dev license, if I recall correctly, that allows donations in isk.


Thanks, I love Evernus, however I need something with more up to date information. The "Trade Adviser" is very outdated. That could completely be me simply using it wrong.

I just need something that can give me up to date Jita buy, Jita sell, markup, profit per item, volume traded per day, etc.

Something like this to put it simply:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kPHHfQkKIqg





I actually plan on implementing downloading custom market data through crest for evernus and updating the trade advisor too. Nevertheless, you can check the 3rd party license to be sure, but I think isk donations are fine.

http://evernus.com - the ultimate multiplatform EVE trade tool + nullsec Alliance Market tool

Herdo Armas
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#5 - 2014-12-21 22:21:12 UTC
Pete Butcher wrote:



I actually plan on implementing downloading custom market data through crest for evernus and updating the trade advisor too. Nevertheless, you can check the 3rd party license to be sure, but I think isk donations are fine.


Well I guess I'll wait and see. Lol If that's the case, evernus would probably be the only tool I'd use.

Thanks!
Pete Butcher
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2014-12-21 22:27:23 UTC
Herdo Armas wrote:
[quote=Pete Butcher]EDIT: I guess I should just ask this here. Where is the data for the trade adviser coming from? I saw on your Reddit post that the prices should be accurate within a few minutes.


Trade advisor doesn't use crest yet and relies on eve-marketdata.com. I've been trying to switch to crest, but it's tricky to do efficiently on shared hosting. The desktop app doesn't have any limitations and with the improved update speed, it should be able to fetch entire markets. TA will switch to more real time data too.

http://evernus.com - the ultimate multiplatform EVE trade tool + nullsec Alliance Market tool

Herdo Armas
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#7 - 2014-12-21 22:30:20 UTC
Pete Butcher wrote:
Herdo Armas wrote:
[quote=Pete Butcher]EDIT: I guess I should just ask this here. Where is the data for the trade adviser coming from? I saw on your Reddit post that the prices should be accurate within a few minutes.


Trade advisor doesn't use crest yet and relies on eve-marketdata.com. I've been trying to switch to crest, but it's tricky to do efficiently on shared hosting. The desktop app doesn't have any limitations and with the improved update speed, it should be able to fetch entire markets. TA will switch to more real time data too.


Ah great, thank you. I'll just stick with evernus then. Keep up the great work, and thanks for such a great product.
CCP FoxFour
C C P
C C P Alliance
#8 - 2014-12-22 02:52:55 UTC
Check the FAQ here: https://developers.eveonline.com/resource/faq

@CCP_FoxFour // Technical Designer // Team Tech Co

Third-party developer? Check out the official developers site for dev blogs, resources, and more.

Max Kolonko
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#9 - 2014-12-22 10:14:32 UTC
CCP FoxFour wrote:


Unless im mistaken this faq does not answer the question. In the faq there is info that you cant charge people rl money for using but the question is regarding preparing said software.

Either first point of faq should be clarified or another point added with clear statement regarding this aspect.
Omega Flames
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#10 - 2014-12-25 16:12:02 UTC
Ok here's the breakdown of what you are asking. Legally speaking any software/intellectual property developed by a 3rd party is owned by that 3rd party and as long as nothing in that software is owned by anyone else (that has not given permission to use, ie any pictures/code/that type of stuff) then that 3rd party can do as they wish with their property and CCP LEGALLY can do nothing about it. I stress the word legally for a very important reason, because I'm talking about what would happen in a courtroom. In reality this situation would never see the inside of a courtroom because if CCP just really really really hated you using that software they would simply ban your account and leave it at that. Now LEGALLY (there's that word again) CCP would be in the wrong for doing such a thing and you would most certainly win a lawsuit, however as I said earlier this will never see the inside of a courtroom because when a lawyer starts telling you how much money it will cost to sue CCP (assuming they actually do ban your account, to be honest that's pretty unlikely as they would have to find out you are using said software first) even if you had a year of subscription left it simply wont be worth the thousands of dollars to sue them.
Bob Maths
EVE University
Ivy League
#11 - 2014-12-25 18:35:19 UTC
It doesn't regard anything about employment. Employing someone to develop a program has nothing to do with using their data that they themselves make avaialble. Are you recouping the costs and how are you doing so? See the FAQ or get real legal advice. Your employment relationship to the software developer has nothing to do with CCP. I could be wrong, anything here in conjecture irrespectively, if you have the money to pay a computer software developer to develop you a professionally constructed tool then you should have considered legal fees in your costs. I can only imagine there being issues relating to licenses and how the license extends to your program. I also suggest getting a real employment contract written up by a lawyer as you'll also need to protect your ownership over the IP developed (the software code) unless you want the software developer to own it.