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Ninja Salvagers

Author
Tarn Kugisa
Kugisa Dynamics
#1 - 2011-12-18 00:39:33 UTC
Why do you take salvage from missions, taking income from people?

What you do is immoral and low.

You should have kill rights on people that take salvage from wrecks you or your corp owns because it is the same as taking the loot out of the wreck, but using a module to do it.

Be polite. Be efficient. Have a plan to troll everyone you meet - KuroVolt

Selinate
#2 - 2011-12-18 00:40:53 UTC
Tarn Kugisa wrote:
Why do you take salvage from missions, taking income from people?

What you do is immoral and low.

You should have kill rights on people that take salvage from wrecks you or your corp owns because it is the same as taking the loot out of the wreck, but using a module to do it.


Lol

This thread is back.

Ninja salvagers take, what, 2% of your total income from you? Poor you :P
Crumplecorn
Eve Cluster Explorations
#3 - 2011-12-18 00:41:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Crumplecorn
Tarn Kugisa wrote:
You should have kill rights on people that take salvage from wrecks you or your corp owns because it is the same as taking the loot out of the wreck, but using a module to do it.
No you shouldn't, CCP agrees, don't bother him about it.

Witty Image - Stream

Not Liking this post hurts my RL feelings and will be considered harassment

Tarn Kugisa
Kugisa Dynamics
#4 - 2011-12-18 00:42:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Tarn Kugisa
Selinate wrote:
Tarn Kugisa wrote:
Why do you take salvage from missions, taking income from people?

What you do is immoral and low.

You should have kill rights on people that take salvage from wrecks you or your corp owns because it is the same as taking the loot out of the wreck, but using a module to do it.


Lol

This thread is back.

Ninja salvagers take, what, 2% of your total income from you? Poor you :P


More like 40%
Salvage is worth a lot, especially from L4's
And if its 2%, why would they take it?

Be polite. Be efficient. Have a plan to troll everyone you meet - KuroVolt

Selinate
#5 - 2011-12-18 00:52:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Selinate
Tarn Kugisa wrote:
Selinate wrote:
Tarn Kugisa wrote:
Why do you take salvage from missions, taking income from people?

What you do is immoral and low.

You should have kill rights on people that take salvage from wrecks you or your corp owns because it is the same as taking the loot out of the wreck, but using a module to do it.


Lol

This thread is back.

Ninja salvagers take, what, 2% of your total income from you? Poor you :P


More like 40%
Salvage is worth a lot, especially from L4's
And if its 2%, why would they take it?


Oh gosh, this makes me laugh. Salvaging for the majority of level 4's is not worth THAT much, especially considering the time effort it takes to salvage.

And they do it because they have lower SP, but can still afford a frigate with scan probes and a salvager for a lot more isk than doing level 1's gives.
Tarn Kugisa
Kugisa Dynamics
#6 - 2011-12-18 00:54:10 UTC
Selinate wrote:
Tarn Kugisa wrote:
Selinate wrote:
Tarn Kugisa wrote:
Why do you take salvage from missions, taking income from people?

What you do is immoral and low.

You should have kill rights on people that take salvage from wrecks you or your corp owns because it is the same as taking the loot out of the wreck, but using a module to do it.


Lol

This thread is back.

Ninja salvagers take, what, 2% of your total income from you? Poor you :P


More like 40%
Salvage is worth a lot, especially from L4's
And if its 2%, why would they take it?


Oh gosh, this makes me laugh. Salvaging for the majority of level 4's is not worth THAT much, especially considering the time effort it takes to salvage.

And they do it because they have lower SP, but can still afford a frigate with scan probes and a salvager :P


Or they use an alt and screw over people who work for their money

Be polite. Be efficient. Have a plan to troll everyone you meet - KuroVolt

Endeavour Starfleet
#7 - 2011-12-18 00:59:47 UTC
Stop doing 4's in major mission hubs.

Try doing Khanid or other smaller factions if losing salvage is that important to you.

Salvage is crap money unless the alternative is lower end missioning. And worse you have to play the market to even hope to make a decent amount.

Salvage alts are crap compared to fitting for DPS and assisting your main.
Iskawa Zebrut
Smoke to Train - Train to Smoke
#8 - 2011-12-18 01:05:55 UTC
Get a buddy to tag along (or dual box a second account) in a Noctis and quit bawing all over the forums. You're making them damp.

Of course you could also move somewhere less populated if you're determined to play EVE as a single player game.
Dirk Magnum
Spearhead Endeavors
#9 - 2011-12-18 01:09:18 UTC
This thread never gets old!
^___________________^

                      "LIVE FAST DIE." - traditional Minmatar ethos [citation needed]

Terminal Entry
New Fnord Industries
#10 - 2011-12-18 01:18:55 UTC
Endeavour Starfleet wrote:
Stop doing 4's in major mission hubs.


This ^

Remember all L4 agents are the same quality now.

Wacktopia
Fleet-Up.com
Keep It Simple Software Group
#11 - 2011-12-18 01:21:42 UTC
Tarn Kugisa wrote:
Why do you take salvage from missions, taking income from people?

What you do is immoral and low.

You should have kill rights on people that take salvage from wrecks you or your corp owns because it is the same as taking the loot out of the wreck, but using a module to do it.


Dude Im totally running a locator agent on you and coming to hoover up your missions. Hell I might even steal from you as I don't reckon you even have the balls to shoot. Big smile

Kitchen sink? Seriousy, get your ship together -  Fleet-Up.com

Soi Mala
Whacky Waving Inflatable Flailing Arm Tubemen
#12 - 2011-12-18 01:23:04 UTC
2/10.

It's been done.

SandKid
Sunset Logistics Company
#13 - 2011-12-18 01:26:54 UTC
There seems to be two incorrect thoughts here...

1) Salvage is actually very valuable, especially if you produce rigs to sell.
2) Salvage from 4's is VERY valuable because of the increased amounts from battleship wrecks.

Now stop smiling you whining idiot...

3) Salvage is game for anyone.

Fact is ninja salvaging is more fun than anything else - but it does actually produce some income. Those who are very good at it (and there are corps built on the career - yes, it is career) can make quite a bit of money off it.

Salvaging a single lvl 4 in a destroyer, or even a swift frigate (remember: salvage takes very little room so it's easy to get in any ship), can reap a lot of money. Because you're using a quick ship, you spend less time salvaging and more time scanning. However, those that make this a profession and utilize gangs of ninjas and a powerful scan ship can make easily 100+ million in a matter of hours, and if lucky (like a Worlds Collide or Extravaganza), that much inside an hour.

Thanks to the fact salvaging is nearly totally safe (the occasional angry bear will foolishly kill a ninja and find a swarm of much larger and better equipped ninjas on them) the career is pursued by quite a few. Most people are actually bored players waiting on a fleet op or they do it as a past-time compared to their normal career, like industry or mining.

Fly Safe - and Move Somewhere Else Numbskull.
Much Like Flies and Dung, if you stay where a heap of Mission Runners are...
Nika Dekaia
#14 - 2011-12-18 01:35:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Nika Dekaia
We used to have two of these threads a week and none in the past few months (or so it feels). I actually don't even feel annoyed by your post.

Wrecks are not part of the mission reward, they never were, by design. If you want to get some ISK out of that space junk, you'll have to work for it, just like everyone else.

Here's what the Devs think about salavging:

Per CCP Mitnal:
CCP Mitnal wrote:
"Our policy on this is extremely clear... Salvaging is a mini-profession within EVE and does not constitute stealing."

Per GM Faolchu :
GM Faolchu wrote:
Salvaging other peoples wrecks.... This is an intended game mechanic and is in no way an exploit. People salvaging your missions npcs or the player you just blew up are doing nothing wrong. The players are salvaging what is effectively floating rubbish in space and Concord places no value on this wreckage.
Eve is a harsh place you won't always have everything go your way, its a do or die world and people do what they can to get along. If salvaging some wreckage gets them a few more ISK someone will do it, it doesn't matter who just blew it up.

Per Senior GM Ytterbium :
GM Ytterbium wrote:
Players are still completely free to salvage other pilot wrecks at will ... and doing so is not considered as an exploit.

Per CCP Prism X :
CCP Prism X wrote:
Why is stealing salvage OK? It's not. It shouldn't even be possible to move an item from your cargo-hold / hanger to another persons cargo-hold / hanger without opening a trade window. Before the salvage enters those containers it is not considered your stuff by the server code. Hence it's not stealing.

Per CCP Incognito :
CCP Incognito wrote:
Had a chat with some designers this evening.
Ninja salvaging is intended game play. It was always intended that the wrecks are public, the loot is private.
They do not see it as a problem if others salvage your wrecks.

(These quotes are kept handy for your convenience at Ironfleet.com.)

As others have pointed out, it will never change so you can as well just quit whining. Speedrunning missions will net you more ISK and safe you the pain of beeing angry at people salvaging "your" loot.

Edit: And what would you do if salvaging would give you kill rights? Shoot them? They would most likely be happy about that. Be careful of what you wish.
Renan Ruivo
Forcas armadas
Brave Collective
#15 - 2011-12-18 01:56:28 UTC
If salvage is 40% of your missioning income, then you be doing missions wrong. You, and the other schmuck who thinks lvl4 wrecks are worth the time and effort it takes to salvage them in the first place.

If you salvage lvl4 mission wrecks then you are sabotaging your own work by tying an iron ball to your ankle. The ninjas are actually doing you a favor.


And before you ask "if its that worthless, then why do they bother?"

Because its either valuable a whole lot more to him then it is to you, in the case he is a new player who cant even do lvl2 yet (a very rare case, i might add) or because he just wants to make you miserable and see you cry (99% of the cases). Just the way youre doing it now :)

The world is a community of idiots doing a series of things until it explodes and we all die.

Professor Alphane
Les Corsaires Diable
#16 - 2011-12-18 02:14:12 UTC
Part of the game as CCP sees it I'm afraid, as others have said, take it as a small loss and move on.

I see ninja looting as just another one of those loop holes in CCP's coding that can be exploited for profit. I don't believe it really is WAI as far as how the original programmer saw it else why would they bother colour coding the things. But the exploit happened the devs closed ranks and took up the party line. Just another example of how CCP fail to accomplish there goals then just shrug and say 'yes thats WAI' .

[center]YOU MUST THINK FIRST....[/center] [center]"I sit with the broken angels clutching at straws and nursing our scars.." - Marillion [/center] [center]The wise man watches the rise and fall of fools from afar[/center]

Lyrrashae
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
#17 - 2011-12-18 02:14:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Lyrrashae
Tarn Kugisa wrote:
Why do you take salvage from missions, taking income from people?

Oh, look, it's this thread again. How...pitifully adorable.
Tarn Kugisa wrote:
What you do is immoral and low.

No, it isn't: Amorality =/= immorality. Welcome to EVE.
Tarn Kugisa wrote:
[...] it is the same as taking the loot out of the wreck, but using a module to do it.

Manifestly wrong, according to CCP's own explicit definition, and repeated referrals to same ad nauseam/infinitum.

1/10 as you got me to respond, but...Next!

Ni.

Ghoest
#18 - 2011-12-18 02:24:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Ghoest
Troll or clueless noob?

I cant tell the difference.


EDITED to be nice.

Wherever You Went - Here You Are

Professor Alphane
Les Corsaires Diable
#19 - 2011-12-18 03:01:47 UTC
Ghoest wrote:
Troll or dumb noob?

I cant tell the difference.



Look down on others much?

Let the man have his say, hows it hurting you, no need for personal attacks.

[center]YOU MUST THINK FIRST....[/center] [center]"I sit with the broken angels clutching at straws and nursing our scars.." - Marillion [/center] [center]The wise man watches the rise and fall of fools from afar[/center]

Ghoest
#20 - 2011-12-18 03:19:55 UTC
Professor Alphane wrote:
Ghoest wrote:
Troll or dumb noob?

I cant tell the difference.



Look down on others much?

Let the man have his say, hows it hurting you, no need for personal attacks.



People who cry about being picked on in EVE? Yes I look down on them.

Complain about the game mechanics - cool.
Complain about cheaters - cool.
Complain about so called friends scamming you - lame but I understand.
But...
Complain about people following the rules to profit at your expense - why are you playing EVE?

Wherever You Went - Here You Are

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