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Automatic price adjustment on market orders
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Antillie Sa'Kan
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#21 - 2014-12-23 17:35:52 UTC
Velicitia wrote:
ShahFluffers wrote:

Stop being lazy and make your own! P

What good does reading my own propaganda do me? Lol

All of it.
Hiasa Kite
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#22 - 2014-12-23 18:10:48 UTC
EdwardNardella wrote:
Fair enough. If you guys injoy beating eachother by .01 ISK over and over who am I to complain.

What if I told you that market trading doesn't necessarily revolve around 0.01ing each other?

"Playing an MMO by yourself is like masturbating in the middle of an orgy." -Jonah Gravenstein
Shakira Akira
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#23 - 2014-12-23 18:27:15 UTC
EdwardNardella wrote:
So, anyone who has been around and working the markets long enough is aware of undercutting by .01 ISK.

I see a big problem with this. It is a task that could theoretically be completely automated rather easily. It is my opinion that any task that can be automated easily is probably going to be monotonous and boring. Monotonous and boring tasks are generally not very engaging and make for gameplay that is unapealing. Trading can be fun, being beat by .01 ISK is not, countering that by undercutting the competition by .01 ISK every 5 minutes is also not fun. This is however something can can be difficult to avoid if you want to have fun trading.

There are some things that I am aware of CCP doing to combat this issue. The first is restricting the use of automated tools to perform this task. Second, there is a 5 minute timer between order modifications. Third there is a minimum brokerage fee for order price changes. These things indicate to me that CCP also sees a problem with .01 ISK trading.

I have been thinking about solutions to this issue that are not game breaking. Here is what I have come up with so far, could it work?

Implement a feature similar to automatic bidders on auction sites. The person placing a buy or sell order would input two prices, the start price and the maximum or minimum price (depending on whether or not it is a sell or buy order). If someone else inputs an order with a start price that beats your start price but not your maximum or minimum price then your order will automatically and instantly be adjusted to beat the new order by .01 ISK (provided that their maximum or minimum does not beat yours, should it beat yours then your order will be adjusted to your best price and theirs would be .01 ISK better).

Anyone who does not want to use this feature would have the option of just setting their best price and start price as the same. Also you could have your order not be adjusted to match orders with less than a certain number of units or less than a certain percentage of the number of units that you have on sale.

One consequence of this is that prices would be closer to their actual value which should benefit people who are placing orders with immediate fulfillment.

Another is that time spent participating in .01 ISK trading will be reduced.

What does everyone think?



it would be nearly impossible to have the market running at this rate, since the prices would be constantly updating themselves since now they're automated. while the .01isk game is rather annoying, it is trading pvp. it's the same as having someone warp away from the fight in like 10% structure. Learn to use it.
voetius
Grundrisse
#24 - 2014-12-23 22:36:25 UTC

In addition to what Shakira said which bears upon CPU load and potential deadlocks there is also the issue that, if your objective is to get rid of, or mitigate the effects of 0.01 games by allowing players to place a "stop limit" on say sell orders, this could be gamed quite easily.

E.g. I have several characters that are all trained to Tycoon IV or V and have many order slots not being used. I could place single unit sell orders undercutting to "walk the price down" to find where your stop limit is and then buy out your sell order(s) and flip them up.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#25 - 2014-12-24 00:39:36 UTC
Hiasa Kite wrote:
EdwardNardella wrote:
Fair enough. If you guys injoy beating eachother by .01 ISK over and over who am I to complain.

What if I told you that market trading doesn't necessarily revolve around 0.01ing each other?


I would slap you down as a dirty great lair and chastise you about revealing our secrets.
Hiasa Kite
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#26 - 2014-12-24 00:41:14 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Hiasa Kite wrote:
EdwardNardella wrote:
Fair enough. If you guys injoy beating eachother by .01 ISK over and over who am I to complain.

What if I told you that market trading doesn't necessarily revolve around 0.01ing each other?


I would slap you down as a dirty great lair and chastise you about revealing our secrets.

Sorry old Bean! The Illuminati must be preserved. So hailed the Great Spider.

"Playing an MMO by yourself is like masturbating in the middle of an orgy." -Jonah Gravenstein
Lugh Crow-Slave
#27 - 2014-12-24 00:44:51 UTC
Esmanpir wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Don't be lazy.

Roll That's not productive feedback... Big smile

it's more productive than yours

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
EdwardNardella
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#28 - 2014-12-24 03:09:30 UTC
Quote:
people making multiple orders, in short intervals, insuring that they're always above people with single orders

Huh? Time limits would have nothing to do with this, calculations would be done instantly.
Quote:
Nobody enjoys it but you didn't really think this through did you :D

No.
Quote:
it would be nearly impossible to have the market running at this rate, since the prices would be constantly updating themselves since now they're automated.

Updates would only happen when a new order was submitted. THeoretically this could lead to less server load.
Quote:
"walk the price down"

You can do this now, also my proposal has ways to mitigate this.
w3ak3stl1nk
Hedion University
#29 - 2014-12-24 18:05:35 UTC
This is exploitable and not new idea

Is that my two cents or yours?
Mag's
Azn Empire
#30 - 2014-12-24 18:13:57 UTC
ShahFluffers wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Don't be lazy.

Not empty quoting.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
EdwardNardella
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#31 - 2014-12-25 03:45:15 UTC
How is it exploitable?
Hiasa Kite
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#32 - 2014-12-25 10:53:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Hiasa Kite
Why do you feel 0.01ing (other than bots) is a problem? As long as you put in the right price, the 0.01ers go away, leaving you with most if not all of the trade to yourself.

I see them as a challenge to overcome. If I list the wrong price, they just keep undercutting me or I'll fail to make a profit, wasting my time. For the right price, I make a profit for very little effort, which is awesome.

0.01ers act as a deterrent to incompetent traders that might otherwise compete with me. It's very satiafying to start trading an item and watching the roaches scatter before you.

"Playing an MMO by yourself is like masturbating in the middle of an orgy." -Jonah Gravenstein
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#33 - 2014-12-28 09:36:51 UTC  |  Edited by: epicurus ataraxia
Ok, lets look at the markets after this change.
The margin between buy and sell has disappeared.
Prices overall will have inflated until a balance has been achieved.

However, due to the auto bid mechanism, and the inability to block shill bidders, that balance can be distorted at will for almost no cost.
Prices can be crashed with a single item bid being repeatedly run.

Result a completely disfunctional market, that can be manipulated into oblivion automatically.

Benefits? None.

Edit, whilst this can be done currently (and to a degree is) the manual delays make it painfully boring to do, and trading bots attempting it woukd be quite visible to CCP (probably)

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
EdwardNardella
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#34 - 2014-12-28 17:58:02 UTC
I love how people completely ignore the fact that I suggested anti manipulation mechanics.
Anhenka
The New Federation
Sigma Grindset
#35 - 2014-12-28 18:34:33 UTC
EdwardNardella wrote:
I love how people completely ignore the fact that I suggested anti manipulation mechanics.


Taking a bad idea and then putting an idea within it to make it marginally less bad does not make it good.
Swimming in acid is bad. Just because I bring inflatable water wings so I don't drown does not make it a good idea.

It's not just the manipulation part people dislike, every single other post in here is negative or outright mocking of your entire initial idea.

If you want to play the market, pay attention to your orders, or play the long game. If you are .01 isking, there will be times when you cannot update your orders. This is a part of market PvP, and will not be going away.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#36 - 2014-12-28 18:37:05 UTC
Hiasa Kite wrote:
EdwardNardella wrote:
Fair enough. If you guys injoy beating eachother by .01 ISK over and over who am I to complain.

What if I told you that market trading doesn't necessarily revolve around 0.01ing each other?


LIES! lies and blasphemy

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
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