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Covert cyno activation in 0.0 Dead Space
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Pelle Wittewoa
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2014-12-22 13:28:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Pelle Wittewoa
My idea is to allow Covert cyno activation in 0.0 Dead Space area's like complexes, ect. Only those that also are availble to black ops's themselves.

I think this will balance the safety aspect's more between these player interactables and cosmic anomalies / miningbelts. My personal opinion is that dead space is too safe and players have too much time to get out of harms way.

Harm does not like that and he agrees with me!
Esmanpir
Raccoon's with LightSabers
#2 - 2014-12-22 13:41:36 UTC
No. Just more tools for pirates and killboard whores to gank PVE players.
Pelle Wittewoa
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2014-12-22 13:52:26 UTC
Esmanpir wrote:
No. Just more tools for pirates and killboard whores to gank PVE players.


Compex PVE is too safe, to be honest
Dark Drifter
Sons of Seyllin
Pirate Lords of War
#4 - 2014-12-22 13:58:24 UTC
with the iminant recon changes. those plexes are about to get a whole lot harder. so thats a no from me
Tchulen
Trumpets and Bookmarks
#5 - 2014-12-22 14:40:56 UTC
Dark Drifter wrote:
with the iminant recon changes. those plexes are about to get a whole lot harder. so thats a no from me


QFT
Shivanthar
#6 - 2014-12-22 15:19:56 UTC
Pelle Wittewoa wrote:
Esmanpir wrote:
No. Just more tools for pirates and killboard whores to gank PVE players.


Compex PVE is too safe, to be honest


Is warping through acceleration gates too hard?

_Half _the lies they tell about me **aren't **true.
Iain Cariaba
#7 - 2014-12-22 16:22:18 UTC
Shivanthar wrote:
Pelle Wittewoa wrote:
Esmanpir wrote:
No. Just more tools for pirates and killboard whores to gank PVE players.


Compex PVE is too safe, to be honest


Is warping through acceleration gates too hard?

OP is just mad that he can't hotdrop his blops on a mazegu, but that he actually has to use the blops' warp drive.
Pelle Wittewoa
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2014-12-23 12:23:44 UTC
More the fact that you probe first, cyno into the system, than warp to the first gate (remember: "deadspace bla bla"), go trough possible multible gates before you be able to get action in the first place. Give or take 10 minuts for the plexer to get safe. Concidering mobile depots and cloak modules in the cargo... it is nearly impossible to catch victims in escalations.
Shivanthar
#9 - 2014-12-23 12:52:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Shivanthar
Pelle Wittewoa wrote:
More the fact that you probe first, cyno into the system, than warp to the first gate (remember: "deadspace bla bla"), go trough possible multible gates before you be able to get action in the first place. Give or take 10 minuts for the plexer to get safe. Concidering mobile depots and cloak modules in the cargo... it is nearly impossible to catch victims in escalations.


Considering all the fit sums of the predators are less than the preys and considering prey is in struggle with multiple npcs, possible neut pressure, cap management, ewar, range and prop/damage mod management, yeah, this gives at least some well-deserved time to open eyes. Not to mention clicking that precious d-scan could be forgotten easily within that much stuff going on.

I don't want to mean he should be immune. But the thing is you're catching a mistake, not the ship/or pilot in reality.

Did you know that once I got tackled by an interceptor while in low-sec l4 mission with my TFI. I got so excited and my heart was racing so hard that my "save-me" button was in front of me going unnoticed while I was suddenly covered by multiple predators. Guess what, I left my d-scan on "use overview settings" and my overview was showing wrecks only so I didn't see those coming.

Finally I pushed my mjd button and thankfully it worked, I slipped away from the disrupt tackle, that was predators' mistake at their part. But I can say that that was a fun struggle for a full of ~30 seconds :P

So, yeah, you're catching mistakes and they can be made no matter what ;)

Consider lowering your visible signature as a predator. Probe skillfully fast and don't use that cyno. Use covert cyno instead. Have a ceptor/hic planned to seem like a neut in system hours before. Create setup, wait for prey and catch it. This is generally what is going on nearly on all ratting titans. Why not catch smaller fish in the same manner?

_Half _the lies they tell about me **aren't **true.
Pelle Wittewoa
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2014-12-23 13:55:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Pelle Wittewoa
Shivanthar wrote:
Pelle Wittewoa wrote:
More the fact that you probe first, cyno into the system, than warp to the first gate (remember: "deadspace bla bla"), go trough possible multible gates before you be able to get action in the first place. Give or take 10 minuts for the plexer to get safe. Concidering mobile depots and cloak modules in the cargo... it is nearly impossible to catch victims in escalations.


Considering all the fit sums of the predators are less than the preys and considering prey is in struggle with multiple npcs, possible neut pressure, cap management, ewar, range and prop/damage mod management, yeah, this gives at least some well-deserved time to open eyes. Not to mention clicking that precious d-scan could be forgotten easily within that much stuff going on.

I don't want to mean he should be immune. But the thing is you're catching a mistake, not the ship/or pilot in reality.

Did you know that once I got tackled by an interceptor while in low-sec l4 mission with my TFI. I got so excited and my heart was racing so hard that my "save-me" button was in front of me going unnoticed while I was suddenly covered by multiple predators. Guess what, I left my d-scan on "use overview settings" and my overview was showing wrecks only so I didn't see those coming.

Finally I pushed my mjd button and thankfully it worked, I slipped away from the disrupt tackle, that was predators' mistake at their part. But I can say that that was a fun struggle for a full of ~30 seconds :P

So, yeah, you're catching mistakes and they can be made no matter what ;)

Consider lowering your visible signature as a predator. Probe skillfully fast and don't use that cyno. Use covert cyno instead. Have a ceptor/hic planned to seem like a neut in system hours before. Create setup, wait for prey and catch it. This is generally what is going on nearly on all ratting titans. Why not catch smaller fish in the same manner?


Where are your talking about? Have you ever been on a "predator side" yourselve?
Mostly, if not always, people fit their ship vs the plexes. So that argument of "having no time to open eyes" is kinda flawed
Basicly you are saying; a pve'r should always be safe unless he makes a mistake. I disageee, there should be a balance, as in the anomalies.
Your sugestion to catch escalation plexers with neuts hic/dic alts is also not making sence at all. You still need to probe it, cyno in, warp to gate, get in plex ect ect vicem still has 10 minuts to get safe.

You are obvius talking from out a low sec perspective. I am more talking from a null sec perspective. Maybe it is a good ide to differentiate the idea accourdingly! Idea
Shivanthar
#11 - 2014-12-23 14:09:01 UTC
Pelle Wittewoa wrote:


Where are your talking about? Have you ever been on a "predator side" yourselve?
Mostly, if not always, people fit their ship vs the plexes. So that argument of "having no time to open eyes" is kinda flawed
Basicly you are saying; a pve'r should always be safe unless he makes a mistake. I disageee, there should be a balance, as in the anomalies.
Your sugestion to catch escalation plexers with neuts hic/dic alts is also not making sence at all. You still need to probe it, cyno in, warp to gate, get in plex ect ect vicem still has 10 minuts to get safe.

You are obvius talking from out a low sec perspective. I am more talking from a null sec perspective. Maybe it is a good ide to differentiate the idea accourdingly! Idea


Whoops! Shocked I didn't expect this much disagreement.

Don't underestimate me my friend. Yes, I've been at the predator side myself. Do you practice probing missioners? The ones I was talking about found me within less than two minutes. You say 10 minutes! OMG, there must be definitely a mistake.

Sometimes, just for fun, I take out my cheetah and try to find a missioner when I get my safe spot. I've set my own records. Do you do the same?

I'm stuck and lost my mind at 10 minutes mark. You're very very unsuccesful at probing my friend. No hard feelings, but that needs to be definitely improved.

_Half _the lies they tell about me **aren't **true.
Iain Cariaba
#12 - 2014-12-23 19:29:40 UTC
Pelle Wittewoa wrote:
More the fact that you probe first, cyno into the system, than warp to the first gate (remember: "deadspace bla bla"), go trough possible multible gates before you be able to get action in the first place. Give or take 10 minuts for the plexer to get safe. Concidering mobile depots and cloak modules in the cargo... it is nearly impossible to catch victims in escalations.

if it takes you 10 minutes to probe me down, you fail at probing and need to either practice more, or find another way to get targets.

I only do occasional pvp combat probing, and I can get a target probed down in way under 10 minutes, usually in a bit over 2 minutes if I don't already know where they're located. If I have a rough idea where to look, I can get a lock under a minute.
Pelle Wittewoa
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2015-01-09 10:08:09 UTC
Iain Cariaba wrote:
Pelle Wittewoa wrote:
More the fact that you probe first, cyno into the system, than warp to the first gate (remember: "deadspace bla bla"), go trough possible multible gates before you be able to get action in the first place. Give or take 10 minuts for the plexer to get safe. Concidering mobile depots and cloak modules in the cargo... it is nearly impossible to catch victims in escalations.

if it takes you 10 minutes to probe me down, you fail at probing and need to either practice more, or find another way to get targets.

I only do occasional pvp combat probing, and I can get a target probed down in way under 10 minutes, usually in a bit over 2 minutes if I don't already know where they're located. If I have a rough idea where to look, I can get a lock under a minute.


I think you mistinterpertate the probing part. The secret lies in the "give or take" part.
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#14 - 2015-01-09 11:03:23 UTC
And where's the problem? Flush them out of the Plex:

to a POS that you have scouted before or Station and put up a bubble in line with the Plex. You get him.
to a Safe Spot and then you can combat probe him. You get him with skills.

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
Pelle Wittewoa
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#15 - 2015-01-09 16:23:08 UTC
Rivr Luzade wrote:
And where's the problem? Flush them out of the Plex:

to a POS that you have scouted before or Station and put up a bubble in line with the Plex. You get him.
to a Safe Spot and then you can combat probe him. You get him with skills.


If he undocks he sees bubble right or at pos... Or are your thinking of dictors with cov cyno's? Ugh
Aiyshimin
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#16 - 2015-01-09 16:50:21 UTC
The combat recon d-scan invisibility will change things a bit, and in theory makes it possible to catch a plexer. Which currently is impossible because of the gates.

However, cynoing a blops into a site could still be interesting also for the plexers, there are some Overseers that require quite a bit of dps and dropping a gank Sin on those would make things go faster.



Pelle Wittewoa
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#17 - 2015-01-09 18:55:25 UTC
Aiyshimin wrote:


However, cynoing a blops into a site could still be interesting also for the plexers, there are some Overseers that require quite a bit of dps and dropping a gank Sin on those would make things go faster.


Wouldnt it be alot more faster to finish the plex if the extra character is doing pve pew pew in that plex all the time? Bear
Trii Seo
Goonswarm Federation
#18 - 2015-01-09 19:03:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Trii Seo
"In theory"

It's all nice in theory until you realize that all they need to do is pull range from the beacon. MJD 100km in a BS or burn away in a Cruiser and boom, preeeeetty much safe.

The beacon decloaks, too - have to be really lucky to land in a way that it doesn't (or manage to burn off and recloak before the rats lock you, then cloak)

Not sure if covert cynos in deadspace would solve much, but they wouldn't break much to be honest - it's not like you can squeeze a capital through into a complex that theoretically shouldn't have one.

Proud pilot of the Imperium

Arek'Jaalan: Heliograph
Lugh Crow-Slave
#19 - 2015-01-09 19:04:48 UTC
Esmanpir wrote:
No. Just more tools for pirates and killboard whores to gank PVE players.



you understand PvE is only there to drive PvP right

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Mario Putzo
#20 - 2015-01-09 19:09:26 UTC
Nope i disagree. Use combat recons with DSCAN immunity.
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