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Dev blog: Coming to EVE Online in the Proteus Release on January 13th

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Author
Catherine Laartii
Doomheim
#81 - 2014-12-20 14:08:12 UTC
CCP Terminus wrote:
Vic Vorlon wrote:
And....sold all my meta 4 Aoede mining laser upgrades. Phew!


Those are become faction modules with the same drop rate as before. Mining Laser Upgrades are not changing as much as some of the other module types when it comes to merging named modules. There will be more info out about the changes very soon.

So question here...if hull and prop upgrades like overdrives and nanos use no pg or cpu, what exactly will be unique about cleaning up the meta with them? will they just have intermediate stats or will you be changing the mods themselves in some way?
Tonto Auri
Vhero' Multipurpose Corp
#82 - 2014-12-20 16:22:42 UTC
The poll part about starbases is compounded to the point, where picking any choice just does not answer the question.

Two most common elements in the universe are hydrogen and stupidity. -- Harlan Ellison

Altirius Saldiaro
Doomheim
#83 - 2014-12-20 16:32:24 UTC
Rain6637 wrote:
Hey.

This is important. The Exeq looks amazing, but now the pace of things has me worried you're going to touch the Caracal or Merlin. Or the Drake. However, please do touch the Ferox vigorously... it is very face-heavy and its hind quarters look like the result of malnutrition throughout childhood.

Can we agree the only issue with the Merlin is the thing that right-handed turrets do when they're mounted on the left? (something k8 and I noticed while discussing the visual updates on Sisi)


Do you have problems with your eye sight? Have you not zoomed in on the Drake since PBR an seen the painted on parts that should be 3D but are just a painted image? Almost all Caldari ships need an update on their design.

Look at the Drake from the front left or right side towards the back. Look at the panels on the side towards the front of the hull. Look from the side then rotate camera. You'll see what I mean.
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#84 - 2014-12-20 17:51:58 UTC
that video really blows and is totally misleading. recommend something good next time.
Sabrina Scatterbrain
United Souls Research And Development
#85 - 2014-12-20 18:31:18 UTC
Recons not on D-scan? So what you're saying is that you want wormhole space to be a bloodbath for a week and then completely dead?
Bagrat Skalski
Koinuun Kotei
#86 - 2014-12-20 19:31:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Bagrat Skalski
Great job with Oneiros CCP. It is now not skewed, I suppose some bloody galentean drunken facility crew has been fired.
Time for Imicus. Lol

As for recons not showing on D-scan, was that really needed?
Oraac Ensor
#87 - 2014-12-20 20:13:34 UTC
Quote:
A few more things may make it into the release, keep an eye out for the Patch Notes in January for the full set of changes.

Like the new Dominix hull, maybe?

Or the new hulls for the Atron, Imicus and Navitas that were show at Fanfest 2½ years ago? Only the new Tristan shown with them has so far materialised.

How is it that revised hulls like the Incursus and Exequror arrive out of the blue with no prior hint of their existence, and yet items shown at Fanfest are still missing years down the line?
Morihei Akachi
Doomheim
#88 - 2014-12-20 20:13:56 UTC
Catherine Laartii wrote:
Harvey James wrote:
T2 lml's are too good they basically obsolete all the meta's by having all their specialisations and then some..
the point should be too offer different options throughout not upto T2 then T2 is always better

I'm going to have to lay that particular opinion down to rest as it is flatly untrue.

Compact light missile launchers have proven to be revolutionary in fitting in lowsec combat, specifically FW. The SIGNIFICANTLY lower cpu reqs allow for far more fitting options than you would otherwise have on ships with tight room, and the reason why the compact micros remain at such a premium even over the navy faction variants isn't due to lack of supply by any means.

Generally t2 carriers a hefty premium over its meta counterparts; this is especially true with weapons certainly, but the offset of higher fitting reqs and capacitor balance it out quite handily; the Crow is an excellent example of this since after the pass over it can't actually fit a full rack of t2 launchers and anything resembling a tank without serious skills and gimping its potential speed by loading up on fitting implants and rigs. A full rack of compact lights work wonders on the crow, corax, or even the kestrel to a certain extent. It's just not very visible now due to the lack of 'rebalanced' modules and weapons currently out. Light missiles being the only ones, and they have done very nicely.

Would you say, then, that the compact LMLs have become the new Arbalests, just with better fitting stats? If that is the case, then all that the rebalancing has achieved is the replacement of one obvious t1 choice with another. Is this what the the tiericide was meant to do?

"Enduring", "restrained" and "ample" as designations for starship components are foreign to the genre of high-tech science fiction and don’t belong in Eve Online. (And as for “scoped” …)

CCP Terminus
C C P
C C P Alliance
#89 - 2014-12-20 21:19:56 UTC
Catherine Laartii wrote:
So question here...if hull and prop upgrades like overdrives and nanos use no pg or cpu, what exactly will be unique about cleaning up the meta with them? will they just have intermediate stats or will you be changing the mods themselves in some way?

The named modules in these categories are almost all being combined into a single module. This module has intermediate stats between the T1 and T2 variants and usually of the Restrained type, meaning the module drawbacks are not as severe.

@CCP_Terminus // Game Designer // Team Size Matters

Catherine Laartii
Doomheim
#90 - 2014-12-20 21:40:16 UTC
Morihei Akachi wrote:
Catherine Laartii wrote:
Harvey James wrote:
T2 lml's are too good they basically obsolete all the meta's by having all their specialisations and then some..
the point should be too offer different options throughout not upto T2 then T2 is always better

I'm going to have to lay that particular opinion down to rest as it is flatly untrue.

Compact light missile launchers have proven to be revolutionary in fitting in lowsec combat, specifically FW. The SIGNIFICANTLY lower cpu reqs allow for far more fitting options than you would otherwise have on ships with tight room, and the reason why the compact micros remain at such a premium even over the navy faction variants isn't due to lack of supply by any means.

Generally t2 carriers a hefty premium over its meta counterparts; this is especially true with weapons certainly, but the offset of higher fitting reqs and capacitor balance it out quite handily; the Crow is an excellent example of this since after the pass over it can't actually fit a full rack of t2 launchers and anything resembling a tank without serious skills and gimping its potential speed by loading up on fitting implants and rigs. A full rack of compact lights work wonders on the crow, corax, or even the kestrel to a certain extent. It's just not very visible now due to the lack of 'rebalanced' modules and weapons currently out. Light missiles being the only ones, and they have done very nicely.

Would you say, then, that the compact LMLs have become the new Arbalests, just with better fitting stats? If that is the case, then all that the rebalancing has achieved is the replacement of one obvious t1 choice with another. Is this what the the tiericide was meant to do?

I would not say they've become the new arbalests as their RoF is significantly less than the previous meta 4. The bonus, though is that in addition to being quite a bit more affordable, the 'flavor' of compact and ample works well in relation to the previous meta, which scaled up from something useless to something absurdly expensive. Tiercide in this case was 'meant' to clean up underused and useless modules and fix drop rates for them to help with balancing use with distribution.

Here's an even better example: Ballistic Control Systems. Along with damage controls, Ballistic Control Systems have the distinction of being absurdly overpriced for literally no benefit; all the meta launchers have less damage output than the t2 and only one has less CPU (39 to be exact). While there is probably some issue with how they drop, it doesn't reflect well. While people can pay a premium for faction, deadspace and officer modules, the same should NOT be applying to meta-level items. The end hope with module tiercide for many mission remains to be balancing the loot table so the stuff dropped is actually something marginally useful instead of a giant pile of junk that's either sold for basically nothing, and for the people fitting them, not having half or more of the meta items in the variants you're using be useless, laughably expensive, or some combination of the two.
TheMercenaryKing
Collapsed Out
Pandemic Legion
#91 - 2014-12-20 22:34:12 UTC
CCP Terminus wrote:
Sizeof Void wrote:
In my opinion, T2 modules should be more powerful than T1 or metas, but should also have drawbacks, which make it impossible or problematic to fit T2-only to ships. A ship with T2 bonuses to weapons should see some disadvantage in tank or speed; a ship with T2 bonuses to tank should see some disadvantage in firepower; et cetera.


With this round of module tiericide we haven't touched the overall balance of the modules by too much, since most of them were in a good place already. With that being said, in general T2 modules should have the most powerful effects (not including storyline, faction and officer modules) but also the largest skill and fitting requirements. Conversely, the new 'Basic' variants have much lower skill and fitting requirements and much weaker effects. T1 is your basic, and the named modules are between T1 and T2 in power and fitting, with their own niche specializations.
We applied this reasoning to as many module types as we could without breaking existing economies or causing other issues.


So with the obvious skill requirements, I still do not see people use meta as much. I posted this in the past and I still think it should be the case:

on a scale of 1 to 5 with 5 being the best
Tech 1 (meta zero): average all bonuses from the mod end up about a 3
Tech 2: average of all bonuses end up at 4, with fitting being a 1 or 2 (hard to fit)
Tech 1 ( 0 < meta): all bonuses average a 2 but the primary bonus (say range or tracking) is a 5.

The bonus of a meta mod is higher than a T2 but all other stats would be reduced to below T1 standards.
Morihei Akachi
Doomheim
#92 - 2014-12-20 23:02:53 UTC
CCP Terminus wrote:
… usually of the Restrained type …

But you're not going call them that, right?

"Enduring", "restrained" and "ample" as designations for starship components are foreign to the genre of high-tech science fiction and don’t belong in Eve Online. (And as for “scoped” …)

Aiyshimin
Shiva Furnace
#93 - 2014-12-21 00:17:03 UTC
Looks like another awesome patch, looking forward to the Exeq!

Sizeof Void
Ninja Suicide Squadron
#94 - 2014-12-21 00:18:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Sizeof Void
CCP Terminus wrote:
Catherine Laartii wrote:
So question here...if hull and prop upgrades like overdrives and nanos use no pg or cpu, what exactly will be unique about cleaning up the meta with them? will they just have intermediate stats or will you be changing the mods themselves in some way?

The named modules in these categories are almost all being combined into a single module. This module has intermediate stats between the T1 and T2 variants and usually of the Restrained type, meaning the module drawbacks are not as severe.

Kudos to you for participating in the forums, Terminus.

With regards to module tiericide, please don't forget that it isn't only about merging metas and tweaking stats. You also need to rebalance the module economics by looking at the BPO build cost for the T1 version, particularly relative to the reprocessing value of the metas and their drop rate from NPC wrecks. Most of those build numbers have not been tweaked since the modules were first introduced into the game.

You also need to look at the in-game supply of the metas and adjust the NPC drop rate accordingly. In most cases, when you combine all of the metas into a single meta module, it will result in a large market surplus of that combined module. Esp. if the NPCs continue to drop them at the rate of the low metas. This tends to push the price of metas down to their reprocessing value, which is always lower than the T1 build cost, since the 50-55% change to reprocessing.

Keep in mind that if the metas have better stats, identical skill requirements, plenty of supply and lower price, then the T1 versions have no place in the game.

And, thanks for reading and responding - it is greatly appreciated by all.
Phoenix Jones
Small-Arms Fire
#95 - 2014-12-21 00:24:38 UTC
Let's go through what we got. Recons finally getting rebalanced, every other hull except t3's And black ops have been touched (in regards to subcaps).

The d3's are the test for the t3's and I know they need more review.

If there was a review round to be done on ships, I would take a second look at assault frigates because interceptors have blurred the line so much, they are a bit difficult to distinguish. I think they all need a second look to determine whether they are all where they should be at. Some are ok, some people don't bother with.

The arbitrator needs a second and third look at. Both a model revamp and a stat review (and this actually looks like a good ship already).

The vexor needs a model "update". It looks good, just needs to have it really bling itself vs just looking like a petite potato.

The ferox needs a total model revamp, but it is a decent ship, it just looks like crap (just my opinion but it looks like garbage)

The cyclone also falls into this area. It probably just needs a model revamp.

Regarding the combat recons and their dscan immunity, these ships now have a purpose, a role, and something that isn't "cloak", but might as well be. Combat probe scans will be much more viable, and the d3's now have a primary target to kill.

Looking good so far.

Yaay!!!!

Bagrat Skalski
Koinuun Kotei
#96 - 2014-12-21 00:34:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Bagrat Skalski
Quote:
The vexor needs a model "update". It looks good, just needs to have it really bling itself vs just looking like a petite potato.

It have ugly part of texture in the upper front. That is my only issue with it, for the model I can't complain, As my first character was Gallente, I really wanted to fly it because it looked badass.
novasux
Way So Mad
Honorable Third Party
#97 - 2014-12-21 00:37:41 UTC
i know this is probably is long shot but is it possible to have a patch that actually fixes something in the game instead of breaking it or making it worse. the force projection changes had some interesting effects on capitals but some massive down sides to black ops. their pretty much useless at this point. maybe instead of making hulls look better and recons not visible to d scan witch is stupid to begin with. perhaps this is the intent of ccp to drive the players away that have played this game since day one and bring in more people who play for a month or to and then go away.

im sorry if i come across as a bitter old vet stuck in my old ways but when i have a dozen accounts sitting idle and theirs no use for them i get bitter. short of rolling my supers through gates just to get killed by Ishtars theirs not much left in this game..

thank you ccp for yet another useless patch

sincerely
the bitter old vets
Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#98 - 2014-12-21 03:22:09 UTC
CCP Terminus wrote:
...With that being said, in general T2 modules should have the most powerful effects (not including storyline, faction and officer modules) but also the largest skill and fitting requirements. Conversely, the new 'Basic' variants have much lower skill and fitting requirements and much weaker effects. T1 is your basic, and the named modules are between T1 and T2 in power and fitting, with their own niche specializations.
We applied this reasoning to as many module types as we could without breaking existing economies or causing other issues.


I don't see the reasoning for this, as meta modules are considerably more difficult to acquire in quantity than tech 2 ones.

Consider Light Neutron Blaster II, a module that is considerably better than all of the meta variants. I could produce a thousand of them in a week on just this character, logging on less than twice a day. There's probably a quarter million or more of them produced each week gamewide. On the flip side, judging from the market statistics, the meta 4 version, Modal Light Neutron Particle Accelerator I, probably only enters the game at a rate of a few thousand per week gamewide.

The scramble by the Goons to keep alliance-level stockpiles of Phased Muon Sensor Disruptor I at the beginning of the Halloween War added a lot to the game, IMO, and I say that as someone whose only interaction with that market was as a trader seeking to exploit the Goons' desperation to get them.

Had Remote Sensor Disruptor II been the overall superior choice, the Goons would have had a more steady supply of their new weapon of choice, and the market waves wouldn't have reverberated through highsec the same way.

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com

Midnight Hope
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#99 - 2014-12-21 04:03:43 UTC
Not looking forward to this one.

First, and hot on the heels of the senseless Incursus redesign comes the redesign of my all-time favorite ship in eve. There are so many ugly ships in EVE you keep messing with the Gallente ones. If you want to redesign a Gallente ship go with the Celestis.

Second, let's break EVE completely and unbalance it by making recons invisible to d-scan.

Very dissapointed. Cry
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#100 - 2014-12-21 05:47:40 UTC
Morihei Akachi wrote:
CCP Terminus wrote:
… usually of the Restrained type …

But you're not going call them that, right?


"Dear newbies … despite their name, the Hobbled Overdrive Injector System is actually better than the basic Overdrive Injector System I."

(Elements of this story have been exaggerated for dramatic effect)