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How to prevent ganks?
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Tuketh Sagus
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#41 - 2014-12-15 23:42:03 UTC
Zand Vor wrote:
I changed your fit a bit, simply because I knew the tank was so light you would have a serious hard time in a C2.
My numbers show 194 eHP/sec, with all resists 60%+. Cap stable and actually you get some neut protection with the Large battery. You even have a modest 27k ehp buffer on top of it.

Don't use crap ammo. Spend the money on Navy or Tech 2. This is 700+ dps including drones.

[Brutix, Brutix Test]

Medium Armor Repairer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Reactor Control Unit II

Experimental 10MN Afterburner I
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Large Capacitor Battery II

250mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
250mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
250mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
250mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
250mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
250mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
Salvager I

Medium Anti-Explosive Pump II
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit II
Medium Nanobot Accelerator II


Hobgoblin II x5


Not sure if intentended, but the antimatter seems pretty bad with range... and what about a damage controll? Is it usefull? Thanks.
Allna
Aim High
#42 - 2014-12-15 23:49:01 UTC
Tuketh Sagus wrote:
Allna wrote:


Navigation Boy wrote:

Also, ask those who gank you for their side of the story. Wormholers are actually a very friendly group, as ruthless as they may seem. Tons of people would be happy to take you under their wing, if you ask.


^ This

We've met more friends than enemies at the end of a gun in wormholes. One time a mostly highsec corp decided to come mine in our hole, the expected shenanigans ensued, and now they're a part of our family (after they died a bit). One of our closest friends lost his Orca to us, etc. Wormhole dudes/dudettes (srsly they exist, we have a gal in our group!) are some of the most down to earth people I've ever met in EVE, and some of the nicest as well. Even the big powerhouse "supergroups" in wormholes are awesome people, met a few at vegas. :)



Yea, the people who ganked me seem to be nice (btw do you mind if I messge you?) , I just made some bad experience when I got ganked the first time, after saying good fight I got a reply like this wasnt even a fight scrub. But yea, besides that all gankers and people who tried were nice, and once i also was able to help a ganker with his fit.



Feel free to message me anytime -- that first type of experience you describe is, odd. You experienced that in wormholes? That sounds more like... other areas of space. In fact, most wormhole organizations are very clear on knowing if what they're doing is ganking someone, and I would expect them to raise the respect bar that you initiated a 'gf' in local even though you got ganked. Most wormhole orgs I know would try and recruit you after seeing you do that. :)
Tuketh Sagus
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#43 - 2014-12-15 23:56:56 UTC
Allna wrote:
Tuketh Sagus wrote:
Allna wrote:


Navigation Boy wrote:

Also, ask those who gank you for their side of the story. Wormholers are actually a very friendly group, as ruthless as they may seem. Tons of people would be happy to take you under their wing, if you ask.


^ This

We've met more friends than enemies at the end of a gun in wormholes. One time a mostly highsec corp decided to come mine in our hole, the expected shenanigans ensued, and now they're a part of our family (after they died a bit). One of our closest friends lost his Orca to us, etc. Wormhole dudes/dudettes (srsly they exist, we have a gal in our group!) are some of the most down to earth people I've ever met in EVE, and some of the nicest as well. Even the big powerhouse "supergroups" in wormholes are awesome people, met a few at vegas. :)



Yea, the people who ganked me seem to be nice (btw do you mind if I messge you?) , I just made some bad experience when I got ganked the first time, after saying good fight I got a reply like this wasnt even a fight scrub. But yea, besides that all gankers and people who tried were nice, and once i also was able to help a ganker with his fit.



Feel free to message me anytime -- that first type of experience you describe is, odd. You experienced that in wormholes? That sounds more like... other areas of space. In fact, most wormhole organizations are very clear on knowing if what they're doing is ganking someone, and I would expect them to raise the respect bar that you initiated a 'gf' in local even though you got ganked. Most wormhole orgs I know would try and recruit you after seeing you do that. :)



Ok thanks.

It was a wormhole, but exceptions happen, I also saw nice people in 0sec hisec.

Im currently skilling a wh character, already applied to someone from the thread Wh corps that welcome new players or something, so I wanna get some experience :p also in ganking .
Justin Zaine
#44 - 2014-12-16 10:40:09 UTC
I'm not sure what you're using for overview settings, but if you're using anything similar to the default settings you could do a whole lot better. The default settings are ****.

Basically what everyone else has said is correct though. Aside from spamming D-scan, staying aligned when possible and trying to avoid peak TZ's there's simply not much more you can do as a solo player to ensure your safety. The bottom line is that you need to find buddies or join a WH Corp because WH's are fundamentally a group environment.

If you're interested, however, convo me in-game and I'll link you my own overview settings. You may or may not like them but they're probably very different from what you're already using and if you're looking to simplify, they might help.

He will win who knows when to fight and when not to fight.

He will win who, prepared himself, waits to take the enemy unprepared.
Zand Vor
OpSec.
Wrong Hole.
#45 - 2014-12-16 18:08:15 UTC
Tuketh Sagus wrote:
Zand Vor wrote:
I changed your fit a bit, simply because I knew the tank was so light you would have a serious hard time in a C2.
My numbers show 194 eHP/sec, with all resists 60%+. Cap stable and actually you get some neut protection with the Large battery. You even have a modest 27k ehp buffer on top of it.

Don't use crap ammo. Spend the money on Navy or Tech 2. This is 700+ dps including drones.

[Brutix, Brutix Test]

Medium Armor Repairer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Reactor Control Unit II

Experimental 10MN Afterburner I
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Large Capacitor Battery II

250mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
250mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
250mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
250mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
250mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
250mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
Salvager I

Medium Anti-Explosive Pump II
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit II
Medium Nanobot Accelerator II


Hobgoblin II x5


Not sure if intentended, but the antimatter seems pretty bad with range... and what about a damage controll? Is it usefull? Thanks.


Since you can basically perma-run the AB you shouldn't be out of range of anything for long. I would primarily rely on the antimatter, but you could swap to Spike when things are out of range.

DC vs 2nd EANM is a tough call. I can see either being used. Your preference :)

Please fix wormhole combat sites: c1 20mil - c2 40 mil - c3 80 mil - c4 160 mil - c5 320 mil - c6 640 mil
Tim Nering
R3d Fire
#46 - 2014-12-17 09:53:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Tim Nering
well there are a lot of ways but if you are solo/duo your only REAL option is to watch D-scan. but something that my skimming didnt see people talking about was ship selection/ crisis management.

a passive drake might be good for level whatever missions and prob gets the job done as far as dps, but this is w-space! when things go wrong ur a dead fish in a ship like that. a key thing to remember is what can i do when its "crisis management time".

one of my favorite ships is the dominix and when you get two of them you can work some utility. 2 of them can RR use use sentries to kill things but when capt sabre comes in the both of you can micro jump, or if you DO get scrammed you can either kill or attempt the ECM drone microjump escape.

i used to have this absurd domi that i used for soloing low class sites. it went something like

highs:
neuts
1 faction smartbomb (beucase i need more range to hit frigates)

medium:
2 ancil shield reps
micro jump
shield resists
shield boost amp (straining my memory now)


lows:
drone tracking
drone damage amps
damage control

CARGO:
cloak
probe launcher
probes
as many cap boosters as i can fit

there also is an impel at a safe sitting next to a mobile depot (cloaked) and loaded with non faction cap boosters (because they are cheap and this is about making isk), a noctis, and some mobile tractors. the idea here was to do a site, drop mobile tractor and after every site id go back to the impel drop off blue loot, grab a new tractor and load up on boosters again.

this was an experiment that went off the rails fast because it wasn't that great at the sties for how much it cost and the ammount of GOD DAMNED EFFORT but it was what i needed it to be. slippery as ****.

see how im ready for war if someone tried to gank me? i got light drones, medium drones, sentries, ECM drones, a micro jump drive, neuts, a smart bomb, a safe spot, a cloak, a fast burst tank of 2 XL ancil shield boosters and a probe launcher oh my! dont do what i did its way too much effort but i think u realize how much harder i am to kill than your drake is? maybe try thinking along those lines because when **** hits the fan a great wormholer has plan B and C.

can i be killed in this? **** ya! but i at least stand a chance to get out.

im sure you can find other ships that you can fly along similar principles.

Stop Caring Start Fragging! Join R3D Fire Today!
ARMED1
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#47 - 2014-12-19 09:54:38 UTC
I love to hunt PVE pilots in WH space. In most cases they die because they do one of more of the things listed below.

1. Dont watch dscan constatnly while plexing
2. Dont watch sigs for new entries into system
3. Dont scan the chain before starting and dont have eyes on the exisitng WHs
4. Dont crit the mass on exisitng WHs
5. Dont run screaming the second they see another ship in system - even a Venture can be part of a gank - get that plexer of grid!
6. Return for loot left on field after they get ganked and then get ganked again
7. Dont fit correctly and/or dont carry a PVP refit
8. Dont understand the difference between sigs that need to be scanned and warpable sigs
9. Sit right next to a warpable item providing a nice warp in for the kill squad
10. Dont understand WH space in general

Nom Nom Nom Nom - please jump in from hi sec and plex that C2 in your Shiney Vargur!!! Isnt that what bastion mode is for???
Quanah Comanche
#48 - 2014-12-19 23:46:11 UTC
I have to report that I ran into Tuketh in Low sec the other day and he was very good at rebuffing my advances!
Tuketh Sagus
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#49 - 2014-12-20 00:05:21 UTC
Quanah Comanche wrote:
I have to report that I ran into Tuketh in Low sec the other day and he was very good at rebuffing my advances!

Ehh which system...? Im just confused a little.... rarely been in lowsec. Anything close to milii or something like that?

Also... goggle doesnt tell me what rebuffing my advances means... anyone could tell me?
Tear Jar
New Order Logistics
CODE.
#50 - 2014-12-20 02:16:47 UTC
Edward Harris wrote:
Tuketh Sagus wrote:
The problem for me are other players, who kill me. Any idea how to prevent it?


You can't.
This game is centered around pvp and there is no such thing as a pve safe-haven.



Well there are high sec incursions...
Godfrey Silvarna
Arctic Light Inc.
Arctic Light
#51 - 2014-12-20 12:44:51 UTC
Tear Jar wrote:
Edward Harris wrote:
Tuketh Sagus wrote:
The problem for me are other players, who kill me. Any idea how to prevent it?


You can't.
This game is centered around pvp and there is no such thing as a pve safe-haven.



Well there are high sec incursions...

Laughingcatalysts.jpg
Chance Ravinne
WiNGSPAN Delivery Services
WiNGSPAN Delivery Network
#52 - 2015-01-24 02:30:38 UTC
Navigation Boy wrote:
I often invite friends to a gank I did all the work for, and could have easily done alone. Why not? Friends share.

Anyway, the best high-level advice for how to avoid ganks, or stay alive in general, is to start ganking, and start killing other players.
Once you have seen what you have to do while hunting someone, you will see what can be done to make it harder. It would almost be better to ask people what tricks they use when hunting someone, and analyze that... IMO, solo hunting is the greatest game in Eve anyway, and one even new players with can partake in (shout-out to wingspanTT - I love his vids).


o7

In wormhole space, Nav's advice is solid. Ultimately however you WILL lose your ships. I highly suggest bringing friends, even if they're alts. I am a lot more hesitant to engage a ship if it has any other ship with it... you never know how many more are cloaked.

You've just read another awesome post by Chance Ravinne, CEO of EVE's #1 torpedo delivery service. Watch our misadventures on my YouTube channel: WINGSPANTT
Orlacc
#53 - 2015-01-24 03:18:20 UTC
Sweet necro SB man!

"Measure Twice, Cut Once."
BayneNothos
United Electro-Magnetic Federation
Business Alliance of Manufacturers and Miners
#54 - 2015-01-24 05:38:52 UTC
Tuketh Sagus wrote:

What about sitting still next to your depot? Would this be any problem?

Time to find where Trinkets blog is...

Btw I think Im gonna swap to Brutix, but still need a gpod fit.

This is what I though:

[sleepix, Brutix]
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Damage Control II
Medium Armor Repairer II
400mm Reinforced Steel Plates II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II

Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script

250mm Railgun II, Thorium Charge M
250mm Railgun II, Thorium Charge M
250mm Railgun II, Thorium Charge M
250mm Railgun II, Thorium Charge M
250mm Railgun II, Thorium Charge M
250mm Railgun II, Thorium Charge M
Drone Link Augmentor II

Medium Hybrid Locus Coordinator II
Medium Anti-Explosive Pump II
Medium Trimark Armor Pump II

Hammerhead I x5

Problems: An empty midslot...any idea what to put in there?
Because of the ammo the range is only 55km with max skills... If I swap ammo I can remove the Tracking computers, but what to place instead?
And what I do against frigs?



Nothing wrong with a bit of zombie action now and again.

First off, never EVER EVER EVER stay still when outside POS. Not even when cloaked. If I see where you cloak up I WILL go in for a decloak and I'm good at it. So are most of the more PvP inclined residents around W Space.

Moving is a part of your tank, it cuts down incoming damage just like a hardener would. So in the spirit of that, grab at LEAST an afterburner.

It's all well and good to sit back and plink at things with rails all day, just be aware you''re not going to hit anything at close range with them and most people are going to check what guns you have fitted before going in. There's a chart around by Azual Skoll that has all the different weapon systems on it and what they look like.
http://i.imgur.com/Wsf2ban.jpg

Lord Buckwild
Buckwild's Children
#55 - 2015-01-24 16:26:57 UTC
Liet Ormand wrote:

I'll echo some of the advice here, but I want to mention a couple of things others have not.

I'm a new player too, been in ships for about two weeks now, and I'm really, really enjoying the intensity of exploration. I originally couldn't afford anything but tech I frigates, and now I stick with them for the reasons below.

1) When you see anyone else in the system, cloak up if you aren't already and stop doing things. If you see multiple ships enter the system, cloak up and scuttle (blow up) your core probes. Even if they can't see you, they can see your probes.

2) ** Important... I can see you want to bring enough firepower to take on the sleepers, which makes sense because those sites are far more common than the anomalies, but your ship has a 295m signature radius. The frigate I usually do wormholes in has a 40m signature radius. It's much harder to find me than it is to find you. Still possible.

No matter how much firepower you bring, the gankers will bring more. The only defense against them is seeing them first and hiding or running. If you're in a big ship like a drake, you're also a much more interesting target for them. A ganker who isn't hunting for money but rather for kicks isn't going to chase down a little imicus, but is going to put a whole lot of effort into killing a drake just because it's more interesting for him.

I have developed habits for hitting d-scan every 10 seconds or so (it's not as difficult as it sounds) unless I'm cloaked, and even then I do if I have probes out. If I see anything on the list, even other core probes, I make sure I'm cloaked and either recall or detonate my own probes. I never sit stationary and scan, and I never scan from any location to which someone can warp without scanning me down.

Even with all the above, you still get ganked. There are a lot of players in Eve for whom the only joy seems to be finding another player can get away with killing. A few will only kill you to take your cargo, others will defend territory, but the majority of them seem to be children from broken homes or who are bullied in real life and ganking is the only time they get to feel powerful.

My worst night I got killed three times, I lost a Probe and 2x Imicus. Even with that I was still cash positive, since the three ships cost me maybe 5m combined, and I got close to 15m from data and relic sites. The only thing that really annoyed me was the time lost. If your ship is only worth 1.5m or so ganking is just the price of doing business.

Final note... C1-C3 wormholes take patience and stealth, but they pay off. I had a good night two days ago, I got so involved in looting a wormhole system that I failed to notice the hole I'd entered through close behind me. Cue two days of looking for an exit in highsec reasonably close to my "home" system. As I jumped from wormhole to wormhole system, I kept hidden and looted sites when I could. It was intense, but very absorbing and fun. Kind of like "silent running" in the old submarine movies.

Yesterday I finally found an exit only 26 jumps from home... let me tell you, you've never been nervous until you've taken a half hour flight through systems from 0.5 - 0.9 sec level with 120m isk in cargo...in a frigate with no weapons.






Awesome post. I am new to WH exploring and yesterday I was considering running some sites when I saw a Tengu in D-Scan and decided not to stay. Reading from the above I guess it was a good call.

Reading from the above post, does this mean that there are relic and data sites in WH's that have no sleepers? I thought sleepers were in every site.
Orlacc
#56 - 2015-01-24 17:26:18 UTC
Lord Buckwild wrote:
Liet Ormand wrote:

I'll echo some of the advice here, but I want to mention a couple of things others have not.

I'm a new player too, been in ships for about two weeks now, and I'm really, really enjoying the intensity of exploration. I originally couldn't afford anything but tech I frigates, and now I stick with them for the reasons below.

1) When you see anyone else in the system, cloak up if you aren't already and stop doing things. If you see multiple ships enter the system, cloak up and scuttle (blow up) your core probes. Even if they can't see you, they can see your probes.

2) ** Important... I can see you want to bring enough firepower to take on the sleepers, which makes sense because those sites are far more common than the anomalies, but your ship has a 295m signature radius. The frigate I usually do wormholes in has a 40m signature radius. It's much harder to find me than it is to find you. Still possible.

No matter how much firepower you bring, the gankers will bring more. The only defense against them is seeing them first and hiding or running. If you're in a big ship like a drake, you're also a much more interesting target for them. A ganker who isn't hunting for money but rather for kicks isn't going to chase down a little imicus, but is going to put a whole lot of effort into killing a drake just because it's more interesting for him.

I have developed habits for hitting d-scan every 10 seconds or so (it's not as difficult as it sounds) unless I'm cloaked, and even then I do if I have probes out. If I see anything on the list, even other core probes, I make sure I'm cloaked and either recall or detonate my own probes. I never sit stationary and scan, and I never scan from any location to which someone can warp without scanning me down.

Even with all the above, you still get ganked. There are a lot of players in Eve for whom the only joy seems to be finding another player can get away with killing. A few will only kill you to take your cargo, others will defend territory, but the majority of them seem to be children from broken homes or who are bullied in real life and ganking is the only time they get to feel powerful.

My worst night I got killed three times, I lost a Probe and 2x Imicus. Even with that I was still cash positive, since the three ships cost me maybe 5m combined, and I got close to 15m from data and relic sites. The only thing that really annoyed me was the time lost. If your ship is only worth 1.5m or so ganking is just the price of doing business.

Final note... C1-C3 wormholes take patience and stealth, but they pay off. I had a good night two days ago, I got so involved in looting a wormhole system that I failed to notice the hole I'd entered through close behind me. Cue two days of looking for an exit in highsec reasonably close to my "home" system. As I jumped from wormhole to wormhole system, I kept hidden and looted sites when I could. It was intense, but very absorbing and fun. Kind of like "silent running" in the old submarine movies.

Yesterday I finally found an exit only 26 jumps from home... let me tell you, you've never been nervous until you've taken a half hour flight through systems from 0.5 - 0.9 sec level with 120m isk in cargo...in a frigate with no weapons.






Awesome post. I am new to WH exploring and yesterday I was considering running some sites when I saw a Tengu in D-Scan and decided not to stay. Reading from the above I guess it was a good call.

Reading from the above post, does this mean that there are relic and data sites in WH's that have no sleepers? I thought sleepers were in every site.



The new null type pirate sites are sleeper free. As in Sansha or angel etc.

"Measure Twice, Cut Once."
Lord Buckwild
Buckwild's Children
#57 - 2015-01-26 01:38:53 UTC
Another question, what is a frigate that could go through C1-C3 WH's and still collect from relic sites given the sleepers found there?
Orlacc
#58 - 2015-01-26 04:10:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Orlacc
Please read the post just above yours. NO SLEEPERS.

"Measure Twice, Cut Once."
Adoris Nolen
Sama Guild
#59 - 2015-01-26 07:41:53 UTC
Easy after the changes...
Step 1: Collapse all incoming wh's.
Step 2: Roll all the existing connections.
then profit.
Dracones
Tarsis Inc
#60 - 2015-01-26 16:36:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Dracones
All good advice in this thread, but I'll add something else: Always be aware of your risked isk vs income isk. In this case you lost a 55 mil ship in a C2 combat site. My guess is that each combat site in a C2 is probably worth 20-30 mil each, so basically you lost 2 sites worth of isk. This is actually a really good risk to isk earning ratio.

Shipping up into a Tengu wouldn't make sense in a case like this. You might be 10-20% more safe(though anyone who can take down a drake can likely take down a Tengu), but you're risking 10 times the isk vs your drake.

Frankly ship losses in wormholes are just part of the cost. You can not lose ships in high sec missions, but even if you lost 1 drake every 6th combat site you'll probably still be earning more isk per hour in wormholes. Just bring enough ship to do the job efficiently, follow the other guidelines in the thread for keeping safe, and don't worry about the losses.

Edit: I hadn't even considered the insurance on the Drake, which being T1 insures out pretty well. So after insurance the loss might have been only 1 combat site worth of isk. So basically you have to lose a lot of drakes often for it to really be hurting you isk-wise.