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Missiles better than guns?
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Crimson Draufgange
The Seven Shadows
Scotch And Tea.
#41 - 2014-12-17 05:21:00 UTC
There is no better weapon in EVE. Some weapons are better at tasks than others. Every weapon can excel in a task if conditions are optimal for that weapon.

My Velator is overpowered.

"I use my hairgel to tackle my targets because it has a long lasting firm hold." - Me.
Slavealt
Sheep Can Hear A Zipper From A Mile Away
#42 - 2014-12-17 08:41:35 UTC
Anne Dieu-le-veut wrote:
If you like drones but hate the look of Gallente ships, Amarr also have good drone boats. They aren't *as* good, but they are still very good. I don't think they have a drone frigate, but the other ships are...

Destroyer - Dragoon
Cruiser - Arbitrator
Battle Cruiser - Prophecy
Battleship - Armageddon

IIRC these Amarr ships can also fit missiles or guns, so you can use whichever you prefer.


The Amarr drone ships are fun, but they aren't generally pure drone focused. The Gallente boats are generally better for pure dronerape, as they usually get either dual drone bonuses, or drone + hybrid bonus.

The Amarr droneboats, on the other hand, are mostly EWAR platforms. As such, they generally only get 1 drone bonus and have less bandwidth than the Gallente ones. They're all good ships, situationally, but raw drone power isn't really the focus of the Amarrian lineup. Dragoon is a neut boat with 1 drone bonus, Arbitrator is a tracking disruptor boat with 50 drone bandwidth (compared to vexor's 75? 100? Don't quite remember).

Prophecy is a brick that gets 1 drone bonus and a resist bonus, while the Geddon is a neut ship that also gets 1 drone bonus. The Geddon does get a full 125 bandwidth and can fit a rack of unbonused launchers, so it is pretty good even if you're not using the neut bonus, but the Dominix is generally a lot better for most purposes.
ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#43 - 2014-12-18 03:08:25 UTC
Drones and missiles are certainly more noob friendly. With low skill points and little knowledge of the game they do low damage and as you gain skill points it steadily increases at a rate that is roughly equivalent to how fast you gain new skills.

Guns take skill points and knowledge of the game. How you pilot your ship Makes a big difference on how damage is applied where with missiles and drones it makes almost no difference. Further gunnery skills all stack on each other so as you gain skills guns get exponentially better instead of linearly.

I'll give an example say we have a specific situation that I'll call XYZ. In this situation called XYZ we have a specific set of circumstances meaning: range, speed, transversal, optimal, falloff, tracking speed etc... So say we increase our tracking by training motion prediction we will certainly do more damage as we are tracking the target better but now also train up sharp shooter and trajectory analysis so you get more optimal and falloff now you can orbit out further which means that your transversal and / or radial velocity go down so you do even more damage but you still have that tracking increase so really you do more more damage.

To get away from the technical stuff an into a more personal note when I first started playing this game I tried guns and thought they sucked and switched to missiles. Then like a year later after having nearly full generic gunnery skills I tried them again and loved them. Also turret based ships are pretty much dependent on tracking mods. I don't think that I have a turret fit that does not have tracking mods.

Also I've posted this elsewhere but optimal is not the optimal range at which you should orbit. Optimal is the max range at which you have the potential to do max damage. Falloff is the range beyond optimal at which you have the potential to do half damage i.e. optimal + falloff = potential damage is halved. Now I say potential because all of the tracking math figures on that as a base. There are times many times and maybe even most times especially for projectiles that you will do more actual delivered damage well into your falloff than you will at optimal.

I have Vargur and Machariel fits with like about a 4km optimal but optimal + falloff equaling around 70Km with autocannons. So at 35-40Kms where most mission BSs like to sit I can do autocannon damage at artillery range. Those are ships with special bonuses that exaggerate the point but still it shows you what I mean.

Want to talk? Join Cara's channel in game: House Forelli
ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#44 - 2014-12-18 03:30:30 UTC
Another note early on I made the mistake of training tank as I was having a very difficult time in missions. I trained more and more tank and fit ships for full tank and missions just did not get that much easier and they took for ever. Then I started training damage skills and quickly noticed that when **** dies fast you don't need much tank.

I started an alt and got to a point where she could barely fit Tech 2 tank mods then remapped for damage skills. I just recently like with in the past week or two trained repair systems 5 on her which is the fastest training skill level in game with a 1 X training multiplier which means most people probably train it very early on. I had over 100 million skill points before I trained it and it only took me like 3 days to train. I had all level 5 gunnery skills and nearly max drone skills on her before I trained that and I do not regret that decision at all. I've not really even noticed the difference since it's trained.

It can't be said enough your greatest defense is a good offense.

Want to talk? Join Cara's channel in game: House Forelli
Jenni Bashaw
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#45 - 2014-12-18 16:23:39 UTC
Well I decided to join Brave and am now out in null sec as of last night. I decided better to get my feet wet with other new people and not take anything to seriously.

I also decided to follow the suggested skill path for now, start in tackles, go to EWAR frigs, then to logi. After that work to bigger ships. That will let me try out multiple roles without devoting the time it would take to say get into a logi cruiser and find out I don't like it. Also the training brings up all weapon skills and ship types. Eventually I will be able to focus training, but for now being flexible seems like a better idea.

Unfortunately I won't get to fly again till Saturday so no chance to go die horribly yet... soon my first death mail will come... eventually a killmail.
Paul Panala
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#46 - 2014-12-18 16:53:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Paul Panala
Missiles will probably seem better when you have very few skill points. The NPCs you are going up against have no tank, so just about any damage you can apply will kill them. Missiles (assuming they are in range) will always do some damage, especially light missiles that apply damage nicely to any sized target. Without the correct supporting skills, guns do miss a lot. Missiles have their own problems without skills, but those tend not to be apparent when fighting early game NPCs.

As you grow in skill points and face harder NPCs (or other players), you will see that each weapon system has advantages and disadvantages. Missiles are in no way considered better, in fact there is a large number of Eve players who will tell you they are the worst (though in the current game that is really not true either).
ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#47 - 2014-12-18 17:08:26 UTC
Jenni Bashaw wrote:
Eventually I will be able to focus training, but for now being flexible seems like a better idea.


This is something that I wish I had figured out early on. Sounds to me like you are on a good path. Experience is "messing up" to learn how not to do stuff so that you can learn how to better do stuff. It seems like you have a good attitude in that regard. Also Brave is sizable and noobie focused as I'm sure you know so corp / alliance chat should be a good resource for you now.

Good luck, Have fun and fly it like you stole it.

Want to talk? Join Cara's channel in game: House Forelli
Tuscor
13.
#48 - 2014-12-19 14:09:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Tuscor
I trained an alt specifically to fly a carrier, because I thought 'oo shiny, I want to fly that' - I flew it twice and it was boring as hell! I sold the alt recently.

If you want to fly a bigger ship with lots of good drones look at the Vexor, Vexor Navy Issue, Ishtar, Myrmidon, Dominix. Also look at some of the Amarr battleships and the Rattlesnake for a good missile/drone hybrid. Stratios is good too.

Carriers have a very specific role in game (triage support for capital/non-capital fleets, or dps for large fights and structure) but are not the kind of ship you fly on a daily basis on a whim.

If you are looking at PvE - well people run Level 5 missions and rat in carriers in nul, but it can be risky and sounds boring to be honest.

I love me some drone action, but I usually use my Stratios as a target hunter.

T
Jenni Bashaw
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#49 - 2014-12-22 04:23:22 UTC
Well didn't last long in Brave. It wasn't that I didn't like the people or had a bad experience per say. It was just that there were too many people. Tonight was last straw for me, defending a timer in some system I don't even remember the name of and there were only 830 people in the system. Lag was so bad that it was just ridiculous.

Everything is built around fleet tactics and that is fine when the corp has 2000 people but the couple of kills that I was in on were with like 77 other people. Not really that much fun or skill involved in blobbing someone to death.

So for now I self destructed my pod after setting my home station back to high sec and I will start looking again for somewhere to go once I get a bit more skills up. (I don't really care for tackle, or ewar frigates and I still had another 20 days of training to be in the miny logi ship so didn't even get to try it).
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