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Low Sec Gate Camp

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Author
Hawkine Sasen
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1 - 2014-12-17 18:56:52 UTC
Good Afternoon

just hoping for a bit of advice.

i was travelling around low sec in my buzzard doing explorers, and on the way back to high sec, hoping to sell my finds :). i came across a gate camp but it was on the same side as me (i had entered the system and no gate camp at the gate i entered) so i hit jump on the next gate in my route and when i got to the gate instead of jumping through there was about 8 players there and instead of myship jumping through it just waited at the gate and i got popped. i was cloaked while i was warping. But when i got to the gate im assuming the gate uncloaked me (all the previous gates id jumped to had uncloaked me).

I'm just wondering if i could of fitted my buzzard dfferently to avoid being killed, im quite new to the game and it was my first venture into low sec so i was enjoying the adrenline knowing i could be popped at explorer sites etc. i have spoken to numerous ppl in the game but no one could come up with an explanation how they got me. i did message the ppl who gate camped and killed me saying GF and asked how they did it and asked for advice on how to avoid it in future but i got no reply.

anyway any help and advice would be much appreciated.Big smile
Daniel Plain
Doomheim
#2 - 2014-12-17 19:02:13 UTC
my best guess is that you had a lag spike and the jump was delayed. also, if for some strange reason you got out of warp father than 2000m away from the gate, you would have to travel the few meters difference, which would give your attackers a slim window of opportunity to kill you.

I should buy an Ishtar.

ISD LackOfFaith
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#3 - 2014-12-17 19:06:29 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD LackOfFaith
Sounds like a spot of very bad luck. Note about cloaks: most objects decloak you when you get within 2 km of them. That is why gates decloaked you. That's normal and happens all the time.

Second, your ship may not have jumped for one of three reasons:

  1. It tried to jump but couldn't because you were cloaked, so its actions were "canceled". This would have happened in the gap between 2 km (decloak range) and 2.5 km (gate activation range). While in that gap, your ship would have remained cloaked, but would have been unable to jump, despite being in range.
  2. Your ship may have landed farther than 2.5 km from the gate, in which case it would not be able to jump because it wasn't in range in the first place.
  3. Lag. It's unfortunate, but it happens.


As far as getting decloaked and killed, I suspect it was not the gate that decloaked you this time, but instead another ship (or wreck, canister, corpse, or a million other things) that was within 2 km of you. Whatever decloaked you did so while you were unable to jump for one of the reasons above, which gave a sensor boosted Vigilant faction cruiser (what killed you) just enough time to lock you and blow you to pieces.

I don't know that there is much you could have done to prevent the loss in terms of your fit. In terms of precautions, in the future you could try to scout potentially dangerous gates using your directional scanner or warping at range to the gate first (while cloaked), or try to avoid decloak traps by warping to the gate from an uncommon angle ("bounce" your warp path off another celestial on the way to the gate).

Hope this helped!

ISD LackOfFaith

Captain

Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

Interstellar Services Department

I do not respond to Eve Mail or anything other than the forums.

Hawkine Sasen
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#4 - 2014-12-17 19:54:10 UTC
Hi there

Thanks for you reply much appreciated. I was reading all the forums and eveuni etc before i went into low sec so i thought i was fully prepared for anything, i even bought cheap probes just incase i was podded so i didnt lose as much isk, scanning with normal prob's a right pain much prefer SOE probes lol.

well the thing is every other gate id jumped to prior to that i did land between as you said 1 - 2.5km but it always only took me a few secs to hit the gate and jump out the system. this time i literally landed right on top of it, the gate took up my whole screen and i was facing the end of the gate (were you actually travel through) which has never happened before i usually warp into the side of the gate and than as i jump the gate swings round and i follow through. this time i just landed at the entrance to the gate at 0km than just stayed there till i died, there was like 0.5 secs between my ship exploding and my pod exploding didnt get chance to spam s on another celestial.

also if you've read my killmail you'll see my finds were not that much different from exploring in high sec, is low sec exploring actually worth doing and its just a matter of chance if you get a decent site. i think i was exploring low sec for a good few hours and scanned down quite a few sites, but the loot was at best on par with high sec. Just wondering if i should just stay exploring in high sec or give low sec another go or should i even try exploring nullsec?? im really enjoying the game and ive been podded a few times and i know you have to treat your ships lke plastic cutlery lol so all advice is appreciated

i was looking into exploring in WH space but apparently there are sleepers on those sites so you need a combat ship is that correct??
ISD LackOfFaith
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#5 - 2014-12-17 20:04:58 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD LackOfFaith
Hawkine Sasen wrote:

well the thing is every other gate id jumped to prior to that i did land between as you said 1 - 2.5km but it always only took me a few secs to hit the gate and jump out the system. this time i literally landed right on top of it, the gate took up my whole screen and i was facing the end of the gate (were you actually travel through) which has never happened before i usually warp into the side of the gate and than as i jump the gate swings round and i follow through. this time i just landed at the entrance to the gate at 0km than just stayed there till i died, there was like 0.5 secs between my ship exploding and my pod exploding didnt get chance to spam s on another celestial.

That's weird. It was probably lag and bad luck, then.

Hawkine Sasen wrote:

also if you've read my killmail you'll see my finds were not that much different from exploring in high sec, is low sec exploring actually worth doing and its just a matter of chance if you get a decent site. i think i was exploring low sec for a good few hours and scanned down quite a few sites, but the loot was at best on par with high sec. Just wondering if i should just stay exploring in high sec or give low sec another go or should i even try exploring nullsec?? im really enjoying the game and ive been podded a few times and i know you have to treat your ships lke plastic cutlery lol so all advice is appreciated

Exploration is very much a chance-based mechanic. You can get awful payout anywhere, and great payout anywhere. The only difference is the upper bound for payout is higher in lowsec and nullsec, plus there's a somewhat better chance for good (but not spectacular) loot there. To really have a lot of success with exploration, you want to do a lot of it, to maximize your chances. For this reason, regions with low population / traffic work best. That tends to coincide with lowsec/nullsec, but not always. Try to find places in space with lots of exploration sites. A good place to start is by looking for places with few jumps and NPC kills using a site like Dotlan.

Hawkine Sasen wrote:
i was looking into exploring in WH space but apparently there are sleepers on those sites so you need a combat ship is that correct??

Yep, that's right. Correction below.

ISD LackOfFaith

Captain

Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

Interstellar Services Department

I do not respond to Eve Mail or anything other than the forums.

Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#6 - 2014-12-17 21:08:11 UTC
Check the lossmail you received in game for the type of weapon that was used to kill you. I suspect from what you stated that you were smartbombed on an outgate.

That is generally extreme bad luck and an unavoidable loss.

As for danger signs that your outgate might be smartbomb camped - 3 or more podkills in system in the last hour is the main one, as is a fair number of people in local that you cannot account for.

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com

ISD LackOfFaith
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#7 - 2014-12-17 21:15:59 UTC
Sabriz Adoudel wrote:
Check the lossmail you received in game for the type of weapon that was used to kill you. I suspect from what you stated that you were smartbombed on an outgate.

That is generally extreme bad luck and an unavoidable loss.

As for danger signs that your outgate might be smartbomb camped - 3 or more podkills in system in the last hour is the main one, as is a fair number of people in local that you cannot account for.

The kill is on zKillboard. She was killed by 250mm railguns from a Vigilant owned by a local pirate/camper.

ISD LackOfFaith

Captain

Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

Interstellar Services Department

I do not respond to Eve Mail or anything other than the forums.

Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#8 - 2014-12-17 21:23:48 UTC
Actually iv noticed my ship will on occasion act as if I had just warped to the gate and not pressed jump on contact.
remember when the client would do this when you alt tab out? It's along those lines but without the alt tab bit, granted I play in windowed mode with two clients and iv noticed it with both of them .
Elena Thiesant
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2014-12-17 21:37:15 UTC
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
Actually iv noticed my ship will on occasion act as if I had just warped to the gate and not pressed jump on contact.


I've noticed the same thing. Also with stations, behaving as if I'd selected 'warp to 0', not dock (ship sitting at 0m from the station, doing nothing, I hit D and it docks immediately). Not often enough to figure out any commonalities, but often enough to be annoying.
Hawkine Sasen
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#10 - 2014-12-17 21:47:59 UTC
i sort of knew what i was getting myself into because on local 8 people were flagged as criminals, so id assumed there was a gate camp up head, but id also been advised the safest ship for gate camps is co-ops (buzzard) for avoiding gate camps. So i was 50/50 about chancing it, but than thought if everyone has advised me that co-ops ships are fine against gate camps who am i to argue. so i kept my eyes peeled as i was warping towards the gate ready to click the jump(again) if anything went wrong. but i didn't seem to burn towards the gate. i literally landed right on top of the gate at 0km and than after a few seconds my ship exploded than about a second later my pod did. i know that your suppose to have a a few seconds after your ship has popped to get your pod out of there. But i didnt even seem to get the chance.

i believe there is another thread in this section were people are advising a new player that a co-ops ship with a cloak is fine against gate camps. so it looks like i was extremely unlucky and got hit by lag.

thankfully i do enjoy dying and learning, just wanted to clarify what happened so if it was something about my fit that i had got wrong i could rectify it.
but with online gaming there's not much that can be done with the lag monster lol
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#11 - 2014-12-17 23:06:12 UTC
Having camped lowsec gates I can tell you that you should be safe on the out gate, under normal circumstances you're uncachable .
it's the other side of the gate you need to worry about.
what myself and Elena are describing is not supposed to happen .

Actually Elena,. How many clients do you usually operate?
I almost always have two and I'm wondering if that has something to do with it.
Sugar Smacks
Khanid Royal Navy
Khanid.
#12 - 2014-12-18 00:01:28 UTC
You could of hit the warp to 0 button instead of the jump button and it would of caused all of this.
Next time when u land, start hitting the jump button over and over for the gate when your worried, it can't hurt.
Orlacc
#13 - 2014-12-18 00:21:42 UTC
ISD LackOfFaith wrote:
Hawkine Sasen wrote:

well the thing is every other gate id jumped to prior to that i did land between as you said 1 - 2.5km but it always only took me a few secs to hit the gate and jump out the system. this time i literally landed right on top of it, the gate took up my whole screen and i was facing the end of the gate (were you actually travel through) which has never happened before i usually warp into the side of the gate and than as i jump the gate swings round and i follow through. this time i just landed at the entrance to the gate at 0km than just stayed there till i died, there was like 0.5 secs between my ship exploding and my pod exploding didnt get chance to spam s on another celestial.

That's weird. It was probably lag and bad luck, then.

Hawkine Sasen wrote:

also if you've read my killmail you'll see my finds were not that much different from exploring in high sec, is low sec exploring actually worth doing and its just a matter of chance if you get a decent site. i think i was exploring low sec for a good few hours and scanned down quite a few sites, but the loot was at best on par with high sec. Just wondering if i should just stay exploring in high sec or give low sec another go or should i even try exploring nullsec?? im really enjoying the game and ive been podded a few times and i know you have to treat your ships lke plastic cutlery lol so all advice is appreciated

Exploration is very much a chance-based mechanic. You can get awful payout anywhere, and great payout anywhere. The only difference is the upper bound for payout is higher in lowsec and nullsec, plus there's a somewhat better chance for good (but not spectacular) loot there. To really have a lot of success with exploration, you want to do a lot of it, to maximize your chances. For this reason, regions with low population / traffic work best. That tends to coincide with lowsec/nullsec, but not always. Try to find places in space with lots of exploration sites. A good place to start is by looking for places with few jumps and NPC kills using a site like Dotlan.

Hawkine Sasen wrote:
i was looking into exploring in WH space but apparently there are sleepers on those sites so you need a combat ship is that correct??

Yep, that's right.


No that's not right sorry, There are now null-type relic and data sites in WH with no sleepers

"Measure Twice, Cut Once."

Paranoid Loyd
#14 - 2014-12-18 00:24:28 UTC
Elena Thiesant wrote:
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
Actually iv noticed my ship will on occasion act as if I had just warped to the gate and not pressed jump on contact.


I've noticed the same thing. Also with stations, behaving as if I'd selected 'warp to 0', not dock (ship sitting at 0m from the station, doing nothing, I hit D and it docks immediately). Not often enough to figure out any commonalities, but often enough to be annoying.

Confirming this has started happening to me as well, since Rhea was released and more often in cloaked ships than non-cloaked ships.

Sugar Smacks may also be correct though.

"There is only one authority in this game, and that my friend is violence. The supreme authority upon which all other authority is derived." ISD Max Trix

Fix the Prospect!

Qn'qura Zalas Zula
Doomheim
#15 - 2014-12-18 00:30:33 UTC
Its also worth doing a 5 degree Dscan on your destination gate before warping to it to make a jump, so you can spot a camp a mile off and if need be find another route.
as mentioned above, slight latency or landing just off the gate can give a camp plenty of time to blow up your ship

Proper Preparation Prevents Piss Poor Performance

Hasikan Miallok
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#16 - 2014-12-18 00:48:56 UTC
One of my favorite things to do when I am aware of a gate camp in an otherwise empty system is warp cloaked to some random safe spot and go have lunch and watch a movie.
Cara Forelli
State War Academy
Caldari State
#17 - 2014-12-18 00:53:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Cara Forelli
I just did some testing.

It seems when I press "jump" and warp to a remote gate while cloaked I land inside the jump radius (2500m), but each time the text "Approaching Dodixie" pops up for about a second before jumping. This doesn't happen when you warp uncloaked - you just jump as soon as your warp ends.

The solution is to decloak a few seconds before you land on the gate, which seems to solve the problem. The only hazard with that is alerting smartbombers to start them up and giving the guys on the gate an extra couple seconds to spot you on d-scan and decide to jump through with you.

I suspect it's one of those things like you can't jump through a gate right after joining a fleet. A sort of session change delay, though that may be the wrong term in this case.

Sabriz Adoudel wrote:
As for danger signs that your outgate might be smartbomb camped - 3 or more podkills in system in the last hour is the main one, as is a fair number of people in local that you cannot account for.

Especially if several of them are flashing red (committed a criminal act within the last 15 minutes - podding)

Want to talk? Join my channel in game: House Forelli

Titan's Lament

Tear Jar
New Order Logistics
CODE.
#18 - 2014-12-18 01:12:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Tear Jar
ignore
Paranoid Loyd
#19 - 2014-12-18 01:14:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Paranoid Loyd
.

"There is only one authority in this game, and that my friend is violence. The supreme authority upon which all other authority is derived." ISD Max Trix

Fix the Prospect!

Please Turn
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#20 - 2014-12-18 02:27:53 UTC
Cara Forelli wrote:
I just did some testing.

It seems when I press "jump" and warp to a remote gate while cloaked I land inside the jump radius (2500m), but each time the text "Approaching Dodixie" pops up for about a second before jumping. This doesn't happen when you warp uncloaked - you just jump as soon as your warp ends.

The solution is to decloak a few seconds before you land on the gate, which seems to solve the problem. The only hazard with that is alerting smartbombers to start them up and giving the guys on the gate an extra couple seconds to spot you on d-scan and decide to jump through with you.



That's the exact same thing I noticed when I'm flying a covop's around. I think you're spot on about the solution. As for smart-bombers, best thing to do(as already mentioned in the thread) is to bounce(warping to gate from an unexpected angle).

Hawkine Sasen wrote:


this time i just landed at the entrance to the gate at 0km than just stayed there till i died, there was like 0.5 secs between my ship exploding and my pod exploding didnt get chance to spam s on another celestial.



Several people I know(me included) noticed that when you're using the selected item window buttons sometimes you hit jump - enter warp, arrive at the gate and the ship just stops and it doesn't do anything. It doesn't seem to happen at all when using the "right click in space menu". The same thing happens with the dock button on the selected item window. "We"call it a bug but to be honest "we" have no idea what's causing it. All I can say is that is for sure annoying as hell.

Hawkine Sasen wrote:

i was looking into exploring in WH space but apparently there are sleepers on those sites so you need a combat ship is that correct??


As already mentioned this is not correct. Recently(in Eve terms anyway), null-sec type data/relic sites were added to the C1-C3 wormoles. My suggestion is to use wormholes for more than just exploration(as in doing the sites). They can be very handy shortcuts helping you in your travels(i.e. you don't have to worry about gate-camps if you enter/exit null-sec or low-sec via wormholes).

By the way, if you like doing exploration you could take a look at this guide(written for new players, at least in my opinion, by a relatively new player ) - EVE Online Exploration Guide: Billions and Billions (of ISK)

Have fun. Blink



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