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BC Memorial Day! Top 5 Reasons to Fly a T1 Battlecruiser!

Author
Aiyshimin
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#1 - 2014-12-17 17:03:54 UTC
CRUISER Online is a massively multiplayer online game set 23,000 years in the future. As an elite frigate, destroyer, cruiser or capital ship pilot, you will explore, build, and dominate across a universe of over 7,000 star systems. Sandbox gameplay and advanced skill-based progression provide you with a truly unique experience as you rise to power among the stars, where you can fly various frigates, destoyers, cruisers and capital ships in glorious player vs player combat.

Two years go in Iceland, the game design team of CCP decided that no player shall ever fly battlecruisers again. They designed a devious plan to make them suck harder than Star Citizen, and executed it with immaculate perfection, not forgetting any detail that could make them worthwhile. The final stage, or last nail in the coffin, was the warp speed changes introduced in Rubicon, approximately a year ago.

Oh, I'm sorry! I just realised that some of you may even have never heard of "T1 battlecruisers", let alone flown one. Ok, shortly: BCs, as they were called, are extinct ship class, once a common sight in all parts of New Eden. These ancient behemoths are designed to fail horribly in every possible aspect of cosmic combat, but today when it's time to celebrate the BC Memorial Day, our editorial team managed to come up with a list of solid reasons why YOU should fly that dusted Drake, rusting Hurricane or rotting Prophecy buried under all the good ships in your hangar.

1. Your gang needs someone to trail 7 jumps behind.
2. You are heavily intoxicated and grab the wrong ship by accident, you undock and your docking rights are revoked.
3. Someone bought out all the other ships from every region. And all the blueprints too. And got ganked on 4-4 undock.
4. Your corpmates promised 10mil each if you provide a comedy lossmail. You have over 3000 corpmates.
5. You manufacture Medium Micro Jump Drives and need to generate some demand.



Rest in peace, dear battlecruisers. We still love you. One day you will again be worth as much as the Veldspar that gave it's life to build you.













Ginger Barbarella
#2 - 2014-12-17 17:21:03 UTC
Fully T2-fit rail Ferox is win.

That is all. Smile

"Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." --- Sorlac

Dato Koppla
Spaghetti Militia
#3 - 2014-12-17 17:36:40 UTC
Butthurt bitter vet detected.

Yeah BCs are far from their glory days but they are not extinct. MJDs definitely breathed new life into the BC hulls and they remain viable although their role isn't as wide as it once was. They are very cheap to lose due to insurance and provide decent firepower and excellent tank for their cost. Not to mention MJDs are an amazing tool to force people into scram range in order to kill you which alleviates alot of the mobility issues that have come about due to changes.

Yes they still warp around slow and don't mix well into Cruiser gangs due to warp speed, but you're clearly just upset that BCs aren't the go to ships for everything in the game anymore. The balance between hulls is the best it's been since I've started playing this game IMO. Yeah some tweaks need to be made here and there but the current state of BCs are definitely a step in the right direction. Although I'm sure you preferred it when the Hurricane basically obsoleted 95% of the Cruiser lineup.
Aiyshimin
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#4 - 2014-12-17 18:04:16 UTC
Dato Koppla wrote:
Butthurt bitter vet detected.

Yeah BCs are far from their glory days but they are not extinct. MJDs definitely breathed new life into the BC hulls and they remain viable although their role isn't as wide as it once was. They are very cheap to lose due to insurance and provide decent firepower and excellent tank for their cost. Not to mention MJDs are an amazing tool to force people into scram range in order to kill you which alleviates alot of the mobility issues that have come about due to changes.


Viable for what exactly? Sure they are cheap to lose, but there are even cheaper ships to lose, but is that a reason to fly a ship? To lose it cheaply?

Tell me how you force someone into scram range with a 100km jump that takes ages to prepare. If you start it at 100km, you can't even lock your target, which means it simply warps out when you land and finally get it locked. MMJDs are also usable only on select BCs which have the slots and fittings to pull a dual prop fit off.

Quote:
Yes they still warp around slow and don't mix well into Cruiser gangs due to warp speed, but you're clearly just upset that BCs aren't the go to ships for everything in the game anymore. The balance between hulls is the best it's been since I've started playing this game IMO. Yeah some tweaks need to be made here and there but the current state of BCs are definitely a step in the right direction. Although I'm sure you preferred it when the Hurricane basically obsoleted 95% of the Cruiser lineup.


I've never flown a cane, and I certainly don't want the Drake or Cane days back, I'd settle for one real reason to fly a BC in pvp. I agree that balance in general is in great shape, even such shitpieces as battleships see some use, but BCs are in a really bad position at the moment and need more than small tweaks here and there.
Torothin
Crimson Dawn Enterprises
#5 - 2014-12-17 18:40:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Torothin
I feel that the welp Cane still is very effective. The hull is like 32 m and it pumps out 596 DPS. That would end the isk war on most formidable 15-40 man comps. A sniping Nado is also effective. Nagas are still good too.
Tusker Crazinski
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#6 - 2014-12-17 18:57:23 UTC
Myrm, brutix, harby, Cyclone, and Ferrox are all decent

The cane just needs some PG, and maybe lose a low for a mid, the drake.. eh deserves to be bad.
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#7 - 2014-12-17 22:40:57 UTC
Torothin wrote:
I feel that the welp Cane still is very effective. The hull is like 32 m and it pumps out 596 DPS. That would end the isk war on most formidable 15-40 man comps. A sniping Nado is also effective. Nagas are still good too.



When peopel complain about BC they usually are talking cobmat ones, not the ABC that are clearly superior.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"

Gregor Parud
Imperial Academy
#8 - 2014-12-18 01:13:52 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Torothin wrote:
I feel that the welp Cane still is very effective. The hull is like 32 m and it pumps out 596 DPS. That would end the isk war on most formidable 15-40 man comps. A sniping Nado is also effective. Nagas are still good too.



When peopel complain about BC they usually are talking cobmat ones, not the ABC that are clearly superior.


Didn't you whine for pages and pages about how CBC would become hilariously overpowered when they'd get MJD?
Kerveros
State War Academy
Caldari State
#9 - 2014-12-18 01:29:35 UTC
Make the BC have a role like roaming fortress. Add those roles to BCs.

Role Bonus:
95% reduction on Armor Repair powergrid requirement
50% reduction on Armor Repair CPU requirement
50% reduction on armor repair activation cost
- Can Fit Warfare Link modules.

With those role bonuses can fit Large armor repair and use them. Tank goes up like you have 2 armor repairs.
Just a thought ;)
Dato Koppla
Spaghetti Militia
#10 - 2014-12-18 02:32:59 UTC
Aiyshimin wrote:
Dato Koppla wrote:
Butthurt bitter vet detected.

Yeah BCs are far from their glory days but they are not extinct. MJDs definitely breathed new life into the BC hulls and they remain viable although their role isn't as wide as it once was. They are very cheap to lose due to insurance and provide decent firepower and excellent tank for their cost. Not to mention MJDs are an amazing tool to force people into scram range in order to kill you which alleviates alot of the mobility issues that have come about due to changes.


Viable for what exactly? Sure they are cheap to lose, but there are even cheaper ships to lose, but is that a reason to fly a ship? To lose it cheaply?

Tell me how you force someone into scram range with a 100km jump that takes ages to prepare. If you start it at 100km, you can't even lock your target, which means it simply warps out when you land and finally get it locked. MMJDs are also usable only on select BCs which have the slots and fittings to pull a dual prop fit off.

Quote:
Yes they still warp around slow and don't mix well into Cruiser gangs due to warp speed, but you're clearly just upset that BCs aren't the go to ships for everything in the game anymore. The balance between hulls is the best it's been since I've started playing this game IMO. Yeah some tweaks need to be made here and there but the current state of BCs are definitely a step in the right direction. Although I'm sure you preferred it when the Hurricane basically obsoleted 95% of the Cruiser lineup.


I've never flown a cane, and I certainly don't want the Drake or Cane days back, I'd settle for one real reason to fly a BC in pvp. I agree that balance in general is in great shape, even such shitpieces as battleships see some use, but BCs are in a really bad position at the moment and need more than small tweaks here and there.


What I meant by forcing people into scram range is that you can't be tackled by disruptors and thus someone has to come within the 10km to scram you in order to hold you down if they actually want to kill you in which case you can scram em back and brawl em down. If someone brings some full kite gang you can just leave and find another fight. Also locks do not break when you MJD, so if you have something locked you can MJD right on top of them and immediately tackle them if they are at the right range although that isn't really a viable tactic very often.

About only certain ships being able to pull it off because you need dual prop isn't true as well. I've flown Myrm, Brutix, Cyclone, Prophecy all with only a single MJD and no other prop. If you have scram/web you can hold down any brawlers that come into range (which they have to because of MJD) and outbrawling a well tanked BC is quite hard even for HACs.

They are viable for small gang and solo PvP (which is what I do). I don't know about big null doctrines with logi and such but I imagine some of them could be used in that context as well. Finally about it being cheap, that's a big factor in flying a ship. Yeah a Cruiser is cheap but you can't get close to the EHP/Dps you can get out of a BC. In fact BCs are closer to HACs in terms of dps/tank while being close to 10x less the cost with insurance. So it's a solid tradeoff for me, you lose speed but have similar tank/dps for a much lower cost.
Aiyshimin
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#11 - 2014-12-18 07:38:52 UTC
Dato Koppla wrote:

What I meant by forcing people into scram range is that you can't be tackled by disruptors and thus someone has to come within the 10km to scram you in order to hold you down if they actually want to kill you in which case you can scram em back and brawl em down. If someone brings some full kite gang you can just leave and find another fight. Also locks do not break when you MJD, so if you have something locked you can MJD right on top of them and immediately tackle them if they are at the right range although that isn't really a viable tactic very often.


That's not forcing, they still have the choice. If they don't have a suitable scram ship, they won't come near you, and if they have, you die. This is not forcing.

No, that really isn't a viable tactic very often since your lock range is 70-80km without a sebo, which makes the tactic not just not viable, but impossible. I know MJD doesn't break the lock, which is nice feature on battleships, on BCs it's useless due to shorter lock range.


Quote:
About only certain ships being able to pull it off because you need dual prop isn't true as well. I've flown Myrm, Brutix, Cyclone, Prophecy all with only a single MJD and no other prop. If you have scram/web you can hold down any brawlers that come into range (which they have to because of MJD) and outbrawling a well tanked BC is quite hard even for HACs.


Are you seriously suggesting that sitting in spot X and waiting for stupid targets is the strategy that makes T1 BCs relevant in todays meta? A ship that can't even burn back to gate?

Quote:
They are viable for small gang and solo PvP (which is what I do). I don't know about big null doctrines with logi and such but I imagine some of them could be used in that context as well. Finally about it being cheap, that's a big factor in flying a ship. Yeah a Cruiser is cheap but you can't get close to the EHP/Dps you can get out of a BC. In fact BCs are closer to HACs in terms of dps/tank while being close to 10x less the cost with insurance. So it's a solid tradeoff for me, you lose speed but have similar tank/dps for a much lower cost.


You say that T1 BCs are viable, but how come you don't actually fly them on TQ?

BCs are close to HACs in dps, but fall far behind in tank (due to resists and sig), speed, lock range, sensor strength and damage application. Mobility is crucial in combat today.

I'm personally happy to pay 100-150mil more for a ship that has realistic expectations of actually killing something, and even coming back in one piece. Paying 150mil less for a ship that does not perform well is more expensive.

Spugg Galdon
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2014-12-18 08:05:13 UTC
Aiyshimin wrote:

1. Your gang needs someone to trail 7 jumps behind.


A single 15% warp speed implant in the No. 6 slot in your head makes a BC war at 2.9 AU/s. This lets you keep up with cruisers easily.

Aiyshimin wrote:

2. You are heavily intoxicated and grab the wrong ship by accident, you undock and your docking rights are revoked.


Who plays EvE sober?

Aiyshimin wrote:

3. Someone bought out all the other ships from every region. And all the blueprints too. And got ganked on 4-4 undock.


BC's are pretty good when used correctly. They're just easily countered when flying solo.

Aiyshimin wrote:

4. Your corpmates promised 10mil each if you provide a comedy lossmail. You have over 3000 corpmates.


Can I join that corp?

Aiyshimin wrote:

5. You manufacture Medium Micro Jump Drives and need to generate some demand.


MJD's when used properly on a BC are extremely useful. You can use them to prevent being kited to death and force people into your "Death Radii" or with a little fitting tweaking and a know how of the mechanics of MJD's use them aggressively in a blink gank setup. The key to one of those fits is >100km locking range (My poor poor Minnie CBC's. They can't do this Cry). That's the only hint I'll give you with that one.
Gregor Parud
Imperial Academy
#13 - 2014-12-18 08:19:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Gregor Parud
Aiyshimin wrote:
BCs are close to HACs in dps, but fall far behind in tank (due to resists and sig), speed, lock range, sensor strength and damage application. Mobility is crucial in combat today.

I'm personally happy to pay 100-150mil more for a ship that has realistic expectations of actually killing something, and even coming back in one piece. Paying 150mil less for a ship that does not perform well is more expensive.



You just invalidated the use of any ship that isn't T2, faction or super OP. And while you're correct up to a certain point you are still missing that point; it IS about SP investment, cost and insurance. It's also very much about a specific mind set & tactic and while it doesn't get used much it doesn't mean it has no use. It just means it's a niche not many people are willing to think about, mostly because that would involve thinking about tactics beyond "must listen to FC and click F1" or "my low self esteem can't handle risk, there's actually a chance that I might die", which will hurt most people's heads.

MJD works fine on CBC who do solo or a small gang assuming the pilots have the right attitude for it, yes it's very niche but at the same time it works fine. Thing is, as I've explained countless times in the BC nerf and MMJD threads back then, that if you buff BC it's very easy for them to become OP again meaning that 2 ships will again rule the skies and dampen the current glorious diversity (something people then simply couldn't foresee, because stupid).

So for the betterment of the game and the newfound diversity CBC need to stay "nerfed", underused in normal meta. The second they get buffed to a point where you see them a lot again is the second they will poop all over the landscape, again. In that light let them stay niche and allow them a very specific niche gameplay that works fine for them, for the people who enjoy something other than "must kite with gang links or don't undock at all, ERMAGERD MY K:D RATIO!".
Deryn Angrard
Lightning Squad
Snuffed Out
#14 - 2014-12-18 17:23:10 UTC
BCs are somewhat slow to get around. When on grid they are pretty good, I have had a blast flying a ferox killing frig gangs and nano cane to kill cruisers.

People just have to get over the idea of BCs being solo pwn mobiles they were. These days they trade cruiser speed for more tank and damage.
Schmata Bastanold
In Boobiez We Trust
#15 - 2014-12-18 17:37:25 UTC
When they changed cyclone into missile ship I cried a little and then I trained frakk out of missile skills.
What I'm trying to say is: adapt or whine like a biatch.

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