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Dev blog: Download on Demand client for EVE Online

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Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#161 - 2014-12-17 13:38:14 UTC
Quote:
What about slow connections?

You can use the offline installer, or you can wait while the launcher downloads everything. Or you can enjoy the fact that you can get into the game sooner, although load times before ships show up might be long when you see a particular ship for the first time.

So... how do I have to imagine that when I am in a multi-system fleet fight. Do I need to wait until the client has downloaded all the gfx files before I see any ship, and while it does that I only have the brackets visible? I don't know, but if this is the case, getting into the game early and then seeing this is not something I as a new player would be looking forward to.

Furthermore, what do you refer to with caching the files on my drives? Will they slowly but steadily build up the game's folder to the same size as it is now as it gradually dls all the files, or will these cached filed be deleted with every restart of the client/computer?

Also, as I do not really look forward to having to dl always all the stuff as I watch/listen to youtube or other things while I play and deem their downloading more important than EVE's traffic, will I be able to dl full patches when there are patches or are you going to force this DoD on me?

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
l0rd carlos
the king asked me to guard the mountain
#162 - 2014-12-17 13:38:33 UTC
Catherda wrote:
I currently play EVE using a 3G mobile internet connection, which works fine because of the small amount of data that is downloaded while playing (I patch my client through my home broadband connection).

Although I know the option to download the full patch files will remain, I'm curious to know how downloading on demand would work when playing on 3G. I get the feeling that it's going to eat away at my monthly download limit and make it a feature that couldn't be used for mobile internet players.

If it's the case that it would eat away at it then it would be essential to leave the option to download the full patch files before entering the game.


Wat?
At worst case, you have to download the same amount of data. Best case you have to download less.

Youtube Channel about Micro and Small scale PvP with commentary: Fleet Commentary by l0rd carlos
l0rd carlos
the king asked me to guard the mountain
#163 - 2014-12-17 13:51:25 UTC
Rivr Luzade wrote:
Quote:
What about slow connections?

You can use the offline installer, or you can wait while the launcher downloads everything. Or you can enjoy the fact that you can get into the game sooner, although load times before ships show up might be long when you see a particular ship for the first time.

So... how do I have to imagine that when I am in a multi-system fleet fight. Do I need to wait until the client has downloaded all the gfx files before I see any ship, and while it does that I only have the brackets visible? I don't know, but if this is the case, getting into the game early and then seeing this is not something I as a new player would be looking forward to.

I doubt many 1 day players jump into a large fleet fight right at the start. If they travel somewhere inbetween they will already have have seen a bunch of ships and thus already loaded the textures. How much space takes up a low detail texture? some 100kb? And you don't need to download it for every individual ship, just for every ship type. For example a fleet of 100 moas, and you just have to download a single skin.
I can't imaging it taking long, even with a slow connection.

Rivr Luzade wrote:

Furthermore, what do you refer to with caching the files on my drives? Will they slowly but steadily build up the game's folder to the same size as it is now as it gradually dls all the files, or will these cached filed be deleted with every restart of the client/computer?

No, it will not be deleted. Why would you even think that?
In the end, it will be the same size.

Rivr Luzade wrote:

Also, as I do not really look forward to having to dl always all the stuff as I watch/listen to youtube or other things while I play and deem their downloading more important than EVE's traffic, will I be able to dl full patches when there are patches or are you going to force this DoD on me?

For the gazillions time, you can just tell your launcher to download everything. It's answered multiple times in this thread and in the dev blog itself.

Youtube Channel about Micro and Small scale PvP with commentary: Fleet Commentary by l0rd carlos
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#164 - 2014-12-17 13:56:47 UTC
l0rd carlos wrote:

Rivr Luzade wrote:

Furthermore, what do you refer to with caching the files on my drives? Will they slowly but steadily build up the game's folder to the same size as it is now as it gradually dls all the files, or will these cached filed be deleted with every restart of the client/computer?

No, it will not be deleted. Why would you even think that?
In the end, it will be the same size.

The word "cache". Good if it isn't the case.

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
Soldarius
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#165 - 2014-12-17 14:12:59 UTC
Luscius Uta wrote:
Does this means that we'll be no longer seeing "Traffic Control is currently offline and unable to process your jump request. Please try again in a moment" messages?


No. This message means that you are the first person to try to jump into that system since last down time. Its a common occurance on the test servers. Just click again in a couple seconds and you will get into system.

http://youtu.be/YVkUvmDQ3HY
Tobe Araxus
Xoth Inc
The Monarchy
#166 - 2014-12-17 15:08:59 UTC
Big smile Way to go guys... +1
Xindi Kraid
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#167 - 2014-12-17 15:41:15 UTC
Dear lord Gargant. Please update OP with a few FAQs so people stop asking, "So if I undock too quick will I not see anything?"
War Kitten
Panda McLegion
#168 - 2014-12-17 15:43:03 UTC
Rivr Luzade wrote:
Quote:
What about slow connections?

You can use the offline installer, or you can wait while the launcher downloads everything. Or you can enjoy the fact that you can get into the game sooner, although load times before ships show up might be long when you see a particular ship for the first time.

So... how do I have to imagine that when I am in a multi-system fleet fight. Do I need to wait until the client has downloaded all the gfx files before I see any ship, and while it does that I only have the brackets visible? I don't know, but if this is the case, getting into the game early and then seeing this is not something I as a new player would be looking forward to.

Furthermore, what do you refer to with caching the files on my drives? Will they slowly but steadily build up the game's folder to the same size as it is now as it gradually dls all the files, or will these cached filed be deleted with every restart of the client/computer?

Also, as I do not really look forward to having to dl always all the stuff as I watch/listen to youtube or other things while I play and deem their downloading more important than EVE's traffic, will I be able to dl full patches when there are patches or are you going to force this DoD on me?


You didn't read the whole article, let alone the thread did you?

1) You'll have the low-quality models before you see any other ships at the very least, and I can't think of a plausible case where any new player will be in multi-system battles, let alone large fleets.

2) That would be absurd to delete and re-download ship models over and over, wouldn't it?

3) Yes, you have the option to download everything all at once.

I don't judge people by their race, religion, color, size, age, gender, or ethnicity. I judge them by their grammar, spelling, syntax, punctuation, clarity of expression, and logical consistency.
CCP Maxwell
C C P
C C P Alliance
#169 - 2014-12-17 15:54:29 UTC
Rivr Luzade wrote:
l0rd carlos wrote:

Rivr Luzade wrote:

Furthermore, what do you refer to with caching the files on my drives? Will they slowly but steadily build up the game's folder to the same size as it is now as it gradually dls all the files, or will these cached filed be deleted with every restart of the client/computer?

No, it will not be deleted. Why would you even think that?
In the end, it will be the same size.

The word "cache". Good if it isn't the case.


OK, that's perhaps a source of confusion. We tend to use the word 'cache' for the download location in this context. But rest assured, if you have downloaded the resource once, you will not have to do so again next time you log in.

CCP Maxwell - QA Engineer - Team RnB
DmitryEKT
AMMO INC
#170 - 2014-12-17 16:58:27 UTC
Let's say I have 3 clients.
All 3 clients are sharing the new cache.
I have all 3 logged in, and in space on the same grid.
Suddenly an enemy fleet of 50 different ships all jump in on us.

Here's the question: since my 3 clients are all now scrambling to read from the same cached files, will this cause them to load stuff in slower? Or is it no worse than if all 3 are reading from their own separate cache files simultaneously?
CCP Snorlax
C C P
C C P Alliance
#171 - 2014-12-17 17:11:51 UTC
DmitryEKT wrote:
Let's say I have 3 clients.
All 3 clients are sharing the new cache.
I have all 3 logged in, and in space on the same grid.
Suddenly an enemy fleet of 50 different ships all jump in on us.

Here's the question: since my 3 clients are all now scrambling to read from the same cached files, will this cause them to load stuff in slower? Or is it no worse than if all 3 are reading from their own separate cache files simultaneously?

No worse - in fact it will probably be faster as there is less trashing on the disk due to better OS level caching.

CCP Snorlax - Software Architect - Team RnB - @CCP_Snorlax - http://ccpsnorlax.blogspot.is/
Manssell
OmiHyperMultiNationalDrunksConglomerate
#172 - 2014-12-17 18:14:17 UTC
So how is this going to work in conjunction with the ever present bug on Macs that causes the client to freeze up if things are downloading while in in game?
War Kitten
Panda McLegion
#173 - 2014-12-17 18:25:32 UTC
Manssell wrote:
So how is this going to work in conjunction with the ever present bug on Macs that causes the client to freeze up if things are downloading while in in game?


Hopefully it will lead to increased PC sales, and an increase of Macs for sale on ebay. :)

I don't judge people by their race, religion, color, size, age, gender, or ethnicity. I judge them by their grammar, spelling, syntax, punctuation, clarity of expression, and logical consistency.
KIller Wabbit
MEME Thoughts
#174 - 2014-12-17 18:43:03 UTC  |  Edited by: KIller Wabbit
Now able to get on today - thanks for the account mirror (although why it came up with only showing "less than day" on the sub time is odd??)

1) Right after selecting toon, I received a security alert from Windows 7. "Windows Firewall has blocked some features of this program" Doesn't bother me, but unexpected? Just flagging this in case something needs to be done in the build.

2) Now in station - ship spinning as usual, everything looks good. Discover that graphics are defaulted to all High - is that expected? Wasn't prompted to make a selection. Since I'm using an already created character maybe I'm past the step that would normally happen at?

3) Undock - 20 seconds of totally black screen (timed). Go from black screen to what appears is fully loaded space (nebulae, station, lava planet etc etc)

4) Warp to gate, with warp to - jump. Get a traffic control - but since the next system is probably not populated I can understand that that server needs to load the system. Gate jump looks normal, no warp tunnel

5) Check size of my SharedCache - sitting at 868MB (9K files, 257 folders). Then I realized that it was on C: drive! Ack! My SSD! Dang it. So closed client, and modified the Resource Download -> Shared cache location: to D: drive. Exited Launcher. Restart launcher. Launcher begins downloading 329.75 MB (from launcher progression bar). For my connection takes less than a minute. Working as intended! GJ CCP!

6) Client launch - 15 seconds of black screen, something comes up about login, then another 20 seconds of black screen before I get toon selection page. Select toon - 3 seconds of black screen. I left my toon in space from previous login :) so no objects in space, but neocom and overview are up. Another 45 seconds before I see space background and ship. Everything appears to be in high detail. I'm 14km off gate, so select jump of gate. Engine trails pop in. Gate jump goes smoothly (server preloaded now). Hit gate jump again. Decloak smooth. Open Char sheet and Mail and several other widgets - all open smoothly. SharedCache is at 768MB atm. Putz around for another minute just jumping the same gate back and forth. SharedCache now at 789MB. I keep checking the size for a minute - it is slowly building in size as I do nothing.

7) I go to a third system - jump gate. While in jump I get screen freeze for 18 seconds. This system has a new nebula so I guess it had to load that. SharedCache jump about 18MB's in size. I didn't do a before jump check, so estimating the jump in size.

8) Warp to anom. Takes about 15 seconds anom clouds to load. Info on rat immediately pops up, but rat ship graphic takes 10 sec to load. Large Collidable objects of anom take a bit to load (too many things to time). "Look at" of rat takes 10 seconds to execute - zoom to rat doesn't happen until graphic loads. Low detail first time, high detail second time (after about a 15 second delay when I realize I should look at it again). Go from frigate rat to looking at cruiser rat. 8 second in delay of "Look at", low detail model, then flick to high detail model after 10 seconds. SharedCache (SC) now at 842MB.

9) Warp to Customs Office - arrive edge on, so hard to tell if low res or high res model when I arrive.

(posting this so I don't lose it to the forum Wocka Wocka god)
Noriko Mai
#175 - 2014-12-17 19:25:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Noriko Mai
KIller Wabbit wrote:
Now able to get on today - thanks for the account mirror (although why it came up with only showing "less than day" on the sub time is odd??) [..]

Do you encounter problems with you current TQ client after trying it? I had to redownload >7GB and all my settings are gone Cry I don't want to set up everything again CryCry Cant' play with default crap CryCry Want play CryCry I don't want to set up everything again CryCry ...

"Meh.." - Albert Einstein
CCP Snorlax
C C P
C C P Alliance
#176 - 2014-12-17 20:16:22 UTC
Manssell wrote:
So how is this going to work in conjunction with the ever present bug on Macs that causes the client to freeze up if things are downloading while in in game?

Well, the good news is that we finally have a reproducible bug that we are investigating.

CCP Snorlax - Software Architect - Team RnB - @CCP_Snorlax - http://ccpsnorlax.blogspot.is/
Masao Kurata
Perkone
Caldari State
#177 - 2014-12-17 20:30:22 UTC
How does this interact with clients running different versions of EVE with different versions of the resources, e.g. tranquility, singularity and duality on a single computer? Do they share a cache and reduce duplication of resources? Do they have individual caches and identical resources across the client versions are duplicated? If the cache is shared, would one client ever end up deleting a resource that has been replaced only for it to be later redownloaded by the other client where that resource is still current? Would multiple versions of the same resources just build up endlessly even when they are no longer used by any current client version?
CCP Snorlax
C C P
C C P Alliance
#178 - 2014-12-17 20:36:07 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Snorlax
Masao Kurata wrote:
How does this interact with clients running different versions of EVE with different versions of the resources, e.g. tranquility, singularity and duality on a single computer? Do they share a cache and reduce duplication of resources? Do they have individual caches and identical resources across the client versions are duplicated? If the cache is shared, would one client ever end up deleting a resource that has been replaced only for it to be later redownloaded by the other client where that resource is still current? Would multiple versions of the same resources just build up endlessly even when they are no longer used by any current client version?

The cache is shared between the different versions of the EVE client (or EVE Probe), so identical resources between the versions are not duplicated. If any given resource is not the same between versions there will be two different versions in the cache - the files will have different names. The name of any given file is simply a hash of the original filename, combined with a checksum of the contents of the file. This ensures no duplication of identical files, reducing downloads (and disk space) when jumping onto a test server while still accounting for different versions of content between the different servers.

We will provide a cleanup process to trim the cache to the current client version (possibly taking test servers into account).

CCP Snorlax - Software Architect - Team RnB - @CCP_Snorlax - http://ccpsnorlax.blogspot.is/
KIller Wabbit
MEME Thoughts
#179 - 2014-12-17 20:44:23 UTC  |  Edited by: KIller Wabbit
Part 2. Continuing to explore DoD

10) Warp/jump to next system. Hard core traffic control. Lightly loaded server is going to present a real obstacle to finding/judging jump graphics issues. Are delays due to graphics loading or server populating the system?

11) Docked and idled at station while I did a full service bio break. Checking SC size: Start 842MB -> End 1.25GB after being AFK in station for about 1.5hrs. 12,810 files Cool! Station environment definitely at more detail.

12) Going to AP to Jita (15J) so I have more things to look at and check SC growth from the trip. Traffic Control at first gate. Warp tunnel good. No load delay for nex system, but 10 sec delay for AP to start jump for next system. Space view flickered, so maybe a nebula detail change? Read the billboard news while AP slow boats to next gate. IGB popped right up with news page.

Posting this for now while I leave toon on AP and answer RL calls for chore execution.
KIller Wabbit
MEME Thoughts
#180 - 2014-12-17 20:45:25 UTC  |  Edited by: KIller Wabbit
Noriko Mai wrote:
KIller Wabbit wrote:
Now able to get on today - thanks for the account mirror (although why it came up with only showing "less than day" on the sub time is odd??) [..]

Do you encounter problems with you current TQ client after trying it? I had to redownload >7GB and all my settings are gone Cry I don't want to set up everything again CryCry Cant' play with default crap CryCry Want play CryCry I don't want to set up everything again CryCry ...



No, TQ install is just fine. Been on and off of it. Sorry for your loss. Cry

Edit: Note that my TQ desk icon was blown away and I did fail to modify the shortcut the first pass through. Icon stomp was CCP's fault, but doubt there is anything they could do - except provide a test icon/link instead of tromping on the TQ one. Fail to modify the link properties as directed was totally my fault (kept launching TQ server, WTH? Three tries before I went back to read the instructions. lol) Since I normally don't use launcher, unless I have my arm twisted behind my back, I have desktop icons that I use to execute my TQ and Sisi client launches. Faster, less annoying, much more dependable, etc, etc.