Wormholes

Being totes honest here, we moved into a C4 when the dual statics were put in the game for the express purpose of getting the phat chains that dual w-space statics would provide, plus decent ISK.

The first has proven not as easy as thought. There were quite a lot of neckbeards living in C4 space who liked the isolation of C4 space and used it to farm the crap out of their little bear dens once a week and were never online and never around to fight. These people still exist, although quite a few of the lazy, stupid or poor at changing moved out.

C4 space ISK got a boost with the Rattlesnake changes, and Marauders. But you rarely catch these people because even if there's double the statics, you can still roll them closed efficiently (even with the jump changes) and turtle up in your whiffy bear cave and make wads of ISK.

Then the buff to blue poo prices added 15-25% to the blue poo ISK of sites, so C4's are more lucrative again.

Then the sleeper RR got " fixed" and things got harder for the solo marauder and Rattler crowd, but not impossible. So probably we lost a few neckbeards to this.

Are they a ridiculous fountain of ISK to gargle in and flood your bank balance like C5's? No. No they are not. But it is better, it is reasonable, and it isn't terrible. You can make do as long as you are proportional in your risk taking.

PVP wise, no, it isn't C5 space. This is entirely due to the fact 50% or more of C4 space is just Russian bears with ridiculous un-siegeable faction large towers logging weekly to farm, and notbeing online to be ganked. Secondly, LZHX and NOHO and Hard Knocks aren't living in C4 space because they want to troll nullsec for PVP. There are few hardcore PVP entities, you rarely roll into them, and fights aren't nearly as arranged. So PVP is still not what it could be - but that's the same everywhere. Risk-averse cowards ganking solo Drakes versus taking fights and losing and having fun.

There you go. C4 life in a nutshell.

/thread

I think c4 space is much better for pew now and gives different variety of pew. Technically, it has become quite a bit more flexible and can be used for anything you would like. It's been decent for solo action imo. c4 sites are annoying as ever, and I don't think we have bothered with them.

My only "problem" right now is that some of the masses and timers don't make much sense to me. c4-c5 or c4-c6 mass (3bill) and 24 hour timer don't make sense to me. Keep in mind that the other statics (c4, c3, c2) are 2 bill holes with 16 hour timer.

I am not sure that it's bear country anymore, but more small groups have moved in. of course, you still have your bears, but the same can be said about any wh class.

Post patch blue loot price spreadsheet. Can't say who the author is, it was somewhere here on the forums.

o/

So glad when you guys bailed your subs out when we first landed. It was a massive chain and our first two guardians were still a jump out. With the other couple just leaving home. Came to gank rolling BSs, really had to scramble when the scout called wrecks and capitals. Respect for coming back in. GF.

Anyway the size of your group is one of the most important determining factors. Same for all wormhole classes, though size is relative. Too small and you will have to carefully judge each fight. Too big and you might find other groups carefully judging fighting you.

For a group of 4-6 active pilots a C4 with the right statics could be a blast. Just be sure NOT to bloat your corp size with alts, perma-AFKers, etc. As some people just look at this number when assessing if they want to brawl.

It's changed. There is lots of pvp from what I found.

Bitches can't handle the life of 2 chainz.

Seems this might be a case of someone striking a nerve. The above said by a plot who never met a structure he didn't like. Keep padding your KB with structure kills boss and then you might be able to claim you killed 3 times as much as ARMED1. You aren't a content creator and that's ok. Doesn't mean wh space is devoid of pvp. Oh and waaaaaaaaaaa!

Oh my! And yawn - here we go again with the my KB blah blah blah...

So sure I guess I will post again both to return to intent of the thread and in doing so to wreak havoc on Trinkets feelings...

The question posed by the OP was not how much +5 per side warfare you will get or who has more kills. The question instead was if C4s in general are better than they were before for PVP and for ISK. Anyone who actualy spends any time in C4s and, for that matter WH space in general, will probably agree that WH space does have more targets than in times past. CCP is doing what they can to drive content in that way and they are doing a decent job of it. As I said before it is still true that WH PVP - both the quantity and the quality will be influenced in large part by what you do to create that content for yourself.

It does also seem that I hurt poor Trinekt's feelings and it seems his insecurities are again leading him to make statements that are mostly innacurate just like he did when he dogged PVP/C4s in his first response post. 50% Russians??? Where do you get your stats??? So to set the record straight - C4s have been made better by their dual statics. Simple fact is that a larger chain = MOAR PVP opportunity. So stay with me here Trinket - reason follows that dual statics = larger chain = MOAR PVP opportunity!

Dont listen to Trinket about statics because there are plenty of C4s with C4 statics. He makes it sound like there are an overwhleming number of "up or down" statics. And, while there are plenty of C4 systems with C5 or C3 statics it is by no means rare to find C4 WHs with C4 statics. It actually seems that the distribution of statics is generally spread out somewhat evenly. I am sure there are more of one kind or another but its not an overwhelming amount that would lead to a worsening of the PVP or ISK experience in C4 life. Looking back at his post I dont think Trinket even lives in a C4... But I digress. So again, take into account the kind of PVP you want and the ISK opportunities you want when moving into a C4 and pick your system wisely so that your statics will give you more of the opportunities you want.

On to the issue raised about KBs and +5 battles etc. The original poster didnt ask about the size of fleets - instead it was a more general question about the state of PVP. I say that the state of C4 PVP is strong. In most cases the larger the class of the WH the larger the fleets are in both ship class and in numbers of the corps that inhabit them. In general, C4s and below tend to lend themselves more to smaller skirmish/battleship type fleets. So, if you are interested in larger fleet warfare you would be better off in a C5 or C6. There you will no doubt find many more +5 pilot fights and larger class fleets but you will also find that PVP can be longer in coming as well. Having lived in both C5 and C6 WHs the fleet battles are fun but they sometimes take a while to materialize. And let's not just dog C4 corps because i have been in many a C5 or C6 and seen their residents cower at their POS as well. To summarize - C4 systems will lend themselves to plenty of great small to mid size skirmishes and plenty of fun hunting plexers, gassers, explorers, etc.

On the issue of KBs in general - Trinket again shows some noobishness here. If a kill report doesnt show +5 on either side it doesnt mean that there arent plenty of fights with 5 ships or more involved from either side. Evaluating KBs takes some finesse and a lot of times the info that isnt there is easily overlooked but it still tells a story. I regularly fight outnumbered so it is actually very rare that the number of ships on my side is equal to the number of ships on the other side. Its not that we dont have numbers if we need them, but instead my guys enjoy fighting outnumbered. Secondly, in many small to mid size fights in WH space pilots on both sides escape the KB even thought they were there for the fight. For example - say a fleet of 3 takes on a fleet of 7. The fleet of 3 stands tall and takes out 2 of the fleet of 7 and the rest beat a retreat as they realize the fight is lost. On the KB it may look like a smaller engagement and it is "small" in terms of fleet combat. But, dont mistake the thrill of the PVP because it is there in mid class WHs especially if you like to take on challenging fights when outnumbered.

To respond to one other KB comment that Trinket made about me specifically - yes I do have plenty of low sec kills. But, hmmm so do you my friend... Along with a lot of structure kills.... IMO that really isnt PVP and I would rather watch paint dry than structure bash. To anyone who cares (which Im sure no one does) the reason for my low sec KB is two fold. One is that I really enjoy solo small ship PVP (something your KB shows you are not very accomplished at) in low sec FW so I sometimes feel the need to go on a solo bender. I will leave the WH for a day, a week, a month or whatever to pursue some good old solo PVP. Secondly, I am an FC with Spectre Fleet. Again I enjoy small gang PVP in low sec & every now and then I go to low sec and FC an op. Nuff said.

Laslty for the OP is the topic of ISK. Yes, you can make good ISK in C4 space. It takes roughly 10 mins to clear a combat site and it will be worth approx 100m(ish). Some relics are worth more. Also you can farm your statics as well if you need more ISK. Lets not forget PI as a valid and semi afk form of ISK generation. I have no issues funding a PVP existence in EVE out of C4 space and I dont think you will either.

Feel free to hit me up in game if you want any more info.

Ditto... Bob I'm lazy.

I think the issue is you are referring ot C4 being a platform to go out into k-space to find pvp (which is fair enough). But in terms of wspace pvp it isnt that great. Hyperion was absolutely awful for a month. it was hard to find anything other than some poor dude unanchoring his tower.

Sure new static means you can get a bigger chain, which is ok but it doesn't really guarantee more opportunities. Scouting chains is key to getting pvp, that we can agree on, but there's only so much scouting you can do (we regularly max out the chain mapper).I'd say biggest contributor for our pvp is the rise in wandering connections and increased frequency of k162 spawns.

Saying pvp is available everywhere is misleading though. Low class wormhole is still dominated by much smaller groups and it is harder to find fleet brawls (fabled GF), so ganks are far more likely. We mostly pvp in wspace, not much in FW cos we are bad at frigates, and occasionally null. Yes we bait really badly and we take really obvious baits too... but you can go and get blowjob from a tranny in Old Man Star if you think im going to stalk russian poses for days on end to gank their pve fleet. IMO thats not exactly a GF either... but i digress and would rather not get stuck on semantics.

Perhaps Trinket's initial description was a little harsh, but it isn't that far from the truth. If i'm honest, I cant identify with what you are saying about pvp activity in c4 space (note the wspace part).

TL;DR: put ur KB handbags away ladies, C4 space is not the PVP superhighway mecca.