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replace laser cap use bonus on amarr ships
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Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#41 - 2014-12-16 21:44:37 UTC
FT Diomedes wrote:
If they removed the cap bonus from Amarr ships, lowered the cap use on the weapons, and gave the ships a new bonus, there is going to be a corresponding nerf somewhere. The cap use bonus is a good bonus, unless lasers as a group are so terrible when compared with other weapons, which is hardly the case in my experience.


they actually did that with the apoc and large lasers .. it was only about 10% cap save sadly and the apoc got the tracking bonus, there were no nerfs.

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
Leoric Firesword
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#42 - 2014-12-16 22:15:36 UTC
as an amarr pilot I see no issue with lasers the way they are. You don't want to neut yourself out? go ahead and switch crystals. don't want to switch crystals? fly a different ship.
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#43 - 2014-12-16 23:15:28 UTC
Leoric Firesword wrote:
as an amarr pilot I see no issue with lasers the way they are. You don't want to neut yourself out? go ahead and switch crystals. don't want to switch crystals? fly a different ship.


those crystals are lame though .. they reduce your dps so much there not worth using.

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
Niskin
The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc.
The Chicken Coop
#44 - 2014-12-17 14:55:39 UTC
Harvey James wrote:
Leoric Firesword wrote:
as an amarr pilot I see no issue with lasers the way they are. You don't want to neut yourself out? go ahead and switch crystals. don't want to switch crystals? fly a different ship.


those crystals are lame though .. they reduce your dps so much there not worth using.


Instantly switching to a lower damage crystal will always provide more damage than turning off your guns and waiting.

It's Dark In Here - The Lonely Wormhole Blog

Remember kiddies: the best ship in Eve is Friendship.

-MooMooDachshundCow
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#45 - 2014-12-17 17:02:16 UTC
Niskin wrote:
Harvey James wrote:
Leoric Firesword wrote:
as an amarr pilot I see no issue with lasers the way they are. You don't want to neut yourself out? go ahead and switch crystals. don't want to switch crystals? fly a different ship.


those crystals are lame though .. they reduce your dps so much there not worth using.


Instantly switching to a lower damage crystal will always provide more damage than turning off your guns and waiting.


i think that sums up the point really .. that the cap use is SO bad we have too talk about special cap ammo and turning guns off..

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
Niskin
The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc.
The Chicken Coop
#46 - 2014-12-17 18:17:46 UTC
Harvey James wrote:
Niskin wrote:
Instantly switching to a lower damage crystal will always provide more damage than turning off your guns and waiting.


i think that sums up the point really .. that the cap use is SO bad we have too talk about special cap ammo and turning guns off..


You have choices in how you fit your ship, choices of which guns to use and which crystals to use. If you choose the least cap stability, with the most hungry guns, with the most hungry crystals... you can't blame the game for your guns shutting off.

I've POS busted in an Apoc before, and could have easily fit for cap stability with Multifrequency ammo. But to do that I'd have to leave off the Warp Disruptor and the Armor tank. That would be totally fine, right up until defense fleet shows up.

So maybe it's better to say it this way:

Instantly switching to a lower damage crystal will always provide more damage than fitting for cap stability and dying in a fire.

It's Dark In Here - The Lonely Wormhole Blog

Remember kiddies: the best ship in Eve is Friendship.

-MooMooDachshundCow
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#47 - 2014-12-17 18:30:26 UTC
Niskin wrote:
Harvey James wrote:
Niskin wrote:
Instantly switching to a lower damage crystal will always provide more damage than turning off your guns and waiting.


i think that sums up the point really .. that the cap use is SO bad we have too talk about special cap ammo and turning guns off..


You have choices in how you fit your ship, choices of which guns to use and which crystals to use. If you choose the least cap stability, with the most hungry guns, with the most hungry crystals... you can't blame the game for your guns shutting off.

I've POS busted in an Apoc before, and could have easily fit for cap stability with Multifrequency ammo. But to do that I'd have to leave off the Warp Disruptor and the Armor tank. That would be totally fine, right up until defense fleet shows up.

So maybe it's better to say it this way:

Instantly switching to a lower damage crystal will always provide more damage than fitting for cap stability and dying in a fire.


and you seriously don't have a problem with any of that? .. come on....

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
Cassius Invictus
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#48 - 2014-12-17 21:26:17 UTC
Harvey James wrote:
Niskin wrote:
Harvey James wrote:
Niskin wrote:
Instantly switching to a lower damage crystal will always provide more damage than turning off your guns and waiting.


i think that sums up the point really .. that the cap use is SO bad we have too talk about special cap ammo and turning guns off..


You have choices in how you fit your ship, choices of which guns to use and which crystals to use. If you choose the least cap stability, with the most hungry guns, with the most hungry crystals... you can't blame the game for your guns shutting off.

I've POS busted in an Apoc before, and could have easily fit for cap stability with Multifrequency ammo. But to do that I'd have to leave off the Warp Disruptor and the Armor tank. That would be totally fine, right up until defense fleet shows up.

So maybe it's better to say it this way:

Instantly switching to a lower damage crystal will always provide more damage than fitting for cap stability and dying in a fire.


and you seriously don't have a problem with any of that? .. come on....


True I have a choice to use blaster, which I do. This topic is about making lasers worth using.
Niskin
The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc.
The Chicken Coop
#49 - 2014-12-17 21:30:45 UTC
Harvey James wrote:
Niskin wrote:
You have choices in how you fit your ship, choices of which guns to use and which crystals to use. If you choose the least cap stability, with the most hungry guns, with the most hungry crystals... you can't blame the game for your guns shutting off.

I've POS busted in an Apoc before, and could have easily fit for cap stability with Multifrequency ammo. But to do that I'd have to leave off the Warp Disruptor and the Armor tank. That would be totally fine, right up until defense fleet shows up.

So maybe it's better to say it this way:

Instantly switching to a lower damage crystal will always provide more damage than fitting for cap stability and dying in a fire.


and you seriously don't have a problem with any of that? .. come on....


Not. Even. A. Little. Bit.

That's the point of them giving us choices, so we can make them. I could totally fit for cap stability if I felt there would be no defense fleet, or if having everybody fit that way might get it done faster so we can GTFO before trouble arrives, then that makes sense. Those are the kinds of choices that this enables. It's no different than choosing between Armor Hardeners and Heat Sinks, or Sensor Boosters and EWAR.

It's Dark In Here - The Lonely Wormhole Blog

Remember kiddies: the best ship in Eve is Friendship.

-MooMooDachshundCow
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#50 - 2014-12-17 21:33:10 UTC
Harvey James wrote:
Niskin wrote:
Harvey James wrote:
Niskin wrote:
Instantly switching to a lower damage crystal will always provide more damage than turning off your guns and waiting.


i think that sums up the point really .. that the cap use is SO bad we have too talk about special cap ammo and turning guns off..


You have choices in how you fit your ship, choices of which guns to use and which crystals to use. If you choose the least cap stability, with the most hungry guns, with the most hungry crystals... you can't blame the game for your guns shutting off.

I've POS busted in an Apoc before, and could have easily fit for cap stability with Multifrequency ammo. But to do that I'd have to leave off the Warp Disruptor and the Armor tank. That would be totally fine, right up until defense fleet shows up.

So maybe it's better to say it this way:

Instantly switching to a lower damage crystal will always provide more damage than fitting for cap stability and dying in a fire.


and you seriously don't have a problem with any of that? .. come on....


no
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#51 - 2014-12-20 03:36:32 UTC
Harvey James wrote:
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:
I would agree to a buff to Amarrian capacitor systems. Laser ships, as a design philosophy, should have uncommonly strong capacitors, even if it comes at the cost of something else. After all, Minmatar ships have smaller sig radius and higher velocity/agility at the expense of reduced hit points.


and what would the penalty be?

Howabout slightly reduced targeting range and max ship velocity? Tough armor tankers aren't meant to be fast, and beam lasers have less range than any other long range weapon system.

I haven't checked, but I think the penalty already exists to match the bonus.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
Flaming Butterfly
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#52 - 2014-12-20 06:33:24 UTC
We have controlled burst giving -25% at L5 for -5% per level
Frig 5 -50
Dessie 5 -50%
Cruiser 5 -50%
HAC -50%
BC 5 -50%
CS -50%
T3 offensive -40% to -50%
BS get no reduction at all
Dread -40% to 50%

Change Controlled Burst to -10% for -50% and add in an advanced version giving -5% for the full -75% trained at L5. Allows for some cap usage for lasers -only appropriate, but allows other bonuses like:

reduced armor repairer activation cost
reduced armor repairer duration
tracking bonuses
greater optimal bonuses
drone bonuses
armor HP
resistance to nos/neut
rof/damage
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
#53 - 2014-12-20 08:26:21 UTC
It is a pretty pointless role bonus but Amarr ships aren't exactly struggling. I think they're pretty well balanced as far as the current meta allows, changing the bonuses would just upset things further, although it might make a change to Gallente FOTM madness.

Oh god.
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
#54 - 2014-12-20 08:31:03 UTC
I've flown a lot of laser boats and I've never had to make a compromise in ammo selection as a result of capacitor issues. Just use a cap booster.

Oh god.
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