These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
Previous page123Next page
 

very geeky question about Eve's coordinate system

First post First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
#21 - 2014-12-15 16:48:51 UTC
almost everything in computer graphics works with cartesian coodinates. Thats how you pass the geometry to the graphics card. You could in theory use different representations but its like working against a pseudo standard ;)

camera and ships use euler angels for sure, thats why you can't directly look down or up (or why ships can't do a loop) due to the gimbal lock which happens when you use absolute angels for the orientation matrix. (quaternions would be a way how to avoid it, relative transformations would be another).

whatever noise functions or coordinate systems ccp used to generate the universe, the end result are xyz coordinates.

how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value
Gilan Isana
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#22 - 2014-12-15 17:26:39 UTC
understanding it is seen as XYZ. However, that dosnt have to be a straight line XYZ.

If angles/azimuths are used instead of straight lines, an XYZ could be plotted onto a stereographic projection which would seem to make more sense, as well as easier to plot and code - particularly for individual star systems, as sites outside of the celestial plane could be plotted in 2 figures rather than 3 and would allow for smoother arcs and curves without the need for the 'step path' of straight line XYZ.

It would then also allow an interesting physical effect by allowing an element of star gravity to be modelled and come into play - but I suppose this would be both fun, and potentialy a nightmare!!
RomeStar
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#23 - 2014-12-15 19:10:19 UTC
So when can we barrel roll our carriers?

Signatured removed, CCP Phantom
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#24 - 2014-12-15 20:00:00 UTC
So if we could get a database of all of these systems and their orbiting bodies "down to the meter", there be some serious number crunching going on. Not sure if I want to deal with double floats (are they floats or ints?) just to see the exact distance in meters between a station in one system and a station in some other system.

(would be fun though - where's my FORTRAN compiler.... )


Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Primary This Rifter
Mutual Fund of the Something
#25 - 2014-12-15 20:38:47 UTC
Distance in meters on the scale of New Eden could be represented with unsigned 64 bit integers. 100 light years is on the order of 10^18 meters, whereas 2^64 is on the order of 10^19.
Lasse R Farnsworth
Blue Republic
RvB - BLUE Republic
#26 - 2014-12-15 20:44:44 UTC
And just remember that you can switch between one system of reference with one mathemathical representation of an idea ot another .. you know switching between carthesian and polar is an often used thing (for example electronics .. you know phase shifts of some stuff like condensators etc) so it actually don't matter wich system you use to descripe the positions ...
Cosmic Girl96
New Mecca Industries
#27 - 2014-12-15 20:53:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Cosmic Girl96
Necronomicon2 keeps me around because I'm pretty and have a bubbly, pleasant personality, not because I'm smart (I'm not but I do have my moments of brilliance) Oops

That being said, for me trying to understand this thread is like trying to read Russian, spelled backwards and written by a 3 year old with crayon.
War Kitten
Panda McLegion
#28 - 2014-12-15 20:59:32 UTC
Cosmic Girl96 wrote:
Necronomicon2 keeps me around because I'm pretty and have a bubbly, pleasant personality, not because I'm smart (I'm not but I do have my moments of brilliance) Oops

That being said, for me trying to understand this thread is like trying to read Russian, spelled backwards and written by a 3 year old with crayon.


Euler is pronounced like "Oiler" - or phonetically "OY-ler"

That should get you past the toughest part of the thread :)

I don't judge people by their race, religion, color, size, age, gender, or ethnicity. I judge them by their grammar, spelling, syntax, punctuation, clarity of expression, and logical consistency.
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#29 - 2014-12-15 23:04:01 UTC
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
So if we could get a database of all of these systems and their orbiting bodies "down to the meter", there be some serious number crunching going on. Not sure if I want to deal with double floats (are they floats or ints?) just to see the exact distance in meters between a station in one system and a station in some other system.

(would be fun though - where's my FORTRAN compiler.... )





As I mentioned, it's all the in the data provided by CCP.

If you download the SDE from them, the SQLite database is the universe data.

mapDenormalize doesn't contain the absolute positions of everything, but it does contain relative to the star in the system. mapSolarSystem contains the absolute position of the star.

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
Sir Substance
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#30 - 2014-12-16 00:19:33 UTC
virm pasuul wrote:
where be the dragons?


Same cage they keep the quaternions in. They sit at either end and snarl at each other.

The beatings will continue until posting improves. -Magnus Cortex

Official Eve Online changelist: Togglable PvP. - Jordanna Bauer
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#31 - 2014-12-16 00:24:35 UTC
Steve Ronuken wrote:
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
So if we could get a database of all of these systems and their orbiting bodies "down to the meter", there be some serious number crunching going on. Not sure if I want to deal with double floats (are they floats or ints?) just to see the exact distance in meters between a station in one system and a station in some other system.

(would be fun though - where's my FORTRAN compiler.... )





As I mentioned, it's all the in the data provided by CCP.

If you download the SDE from them, the SQLite database is the universe data.

mapDenormalize doesn't contain the absolute positions of everything, but it does contain relative to the star in the system. mapSolarSystem contains the absolute position of the star.



Thenk you.

I should shy away from this lest I end up as the main character from the movie "Pi".

Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#32 - 2014-12-16 00:26:59 UTC
Primary This Rifter wrote:
Distance in meters on the scale of New Eden could be represented with unsigned 64 bit integers. 100 light years is on the order of 10^18 meters, whereas 2^64 is on the order of 10^19.



IIRC the wormhole systems are located a couple of thousand LY away from the main New Eden cluster, according to extensive testing that was done a while ago. So that might cause issues.

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com
Primary This Rifter
Mutual Fund of the Something
#33 - 2014-12-16 00:30:25 UTC
Lasse R Farnsworth wrote:
And just remember that you can switch between one system of reference with one mathemathical representation of an idea ot another .. you know switching between carthesian and polar is an often used thing (for example electronics .. you know phase shifts of some stuff like condensators etc) so it actually don't matter wich system you use to descripe the positions ...

Conversion between coordinate systems might be computationally expensive, depending on which you're converting between and how often you have to do it. So the choice isn't entirely arbitrary.
Mharius Skjem
Guardians of the Underworld
#34 - 2014-12-16 00:34:53 UTC
virm pasuul wrote:
where be the dragons?


In Wales or China. That's all I know.

A recovering btter vet,  with a fresh toon and a determination to like everything that CCP does to Eve...

Don't take me too seriously though, I like to tease a bit on the forums, but that's only because I love you...
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#35 - 2014-12-16 00:39:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Tau Cabalander
Mharius Skjem wrote:
virm pasuul wrote:
where be the dragons?

In Wales or China. That's all I know.

In the off chance people don't understand the original reference:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Here_be_dragons
Wikipedia wrote:
"Here be dragons" means dangerous or unexplored territories, in imitation of the medieval practice of putting dragons, sea serpents and other mythological creatures in uncharted areas of maps.

makes me think about dragons made of raisin-bread and interstellar sparkle dragons.
Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#36 - 2014-12-16 22:27:33 UTC
Cartesian coordinates are considerably more suitable than cylindrical or spherical, the game needs to frequently compute the distance between two objects and that is a lot easier in cartesian.

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com
CompleteFailure
DAWGS Corp.
#37 - 2014-12-17 00:05:16 UTC  |  Edited by: CompleteFailure
Tau Cabalander wrote:
Mharius Skjem wrote:
virm pasuul wrote:
where be the dragons?

In Wales or China. That's all I know.

In the off chance people don't understand the original reference:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Here_be_dragons
Wikipedia wrote:
"Here be dragons" means dangerous or unexplored territories, in imitation of the medieval practice of putting dragons, sea serpents and other mythological creatures in uncharted areas of maps.

makes me think about dragons made of raisin-bread and interstellar sparkle dragons.


It's also used in reference to programming. Coders will comment their code with something like

//there be dragons here


to denote sections of code that are messy and/or not in very good form, but are otherwise functional.

Edit - Read: POS code Blink
Mark O'Helm
Fam. Zimin von Reizgenschwendt
#38 - 2014-12-17 05:22:27 UTC
virm pasuul wrote:
where be the dragons?

On the island of Berk, i guess. Waiting to be trained.

"Frauenversteher wissen, was Frauen wollen. Aber Frauen wollen keine Frauenversteher. Weil Frauenversteher wissen, was Frauen wollen." (Ein Single)

"Wirklich coolen Leuten ist es egal, ob sie cool sind." (Einer, dem es egal ist)
Josef Djugashvilis
#39 - 2014-12-17 08:40:04 UTC
Mharius Skjem wrote:
virm pasuul wrote:
where be the dragons?


In Wales or China. That's all I know.


Some folk are said to chase the dragon.

More fool them, but there you go.

This is not a signature.
Soldarius
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#40 - 2014-12-17 15:16:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Soldarius
I've been looking at the eve celestial coordinate system a lot lately. It is indeed Cartesian, and the distances are indicated in meters, not kilometers.

There is a 0,0,0 center of the universe which is located in Molden Heath. It is labeled on the in-game star-map as Point of No Return.

Every region, constellation, solar system, and celestial object can be referenced to this. And as was stated above, mapDenormalize is a bit of a mix, depending on what you're looking at. Items in mapSolarSystems are referenced to universal center, while items in mapCelestials are referenced to the local system's sun.

Anoikis can also be referenced to the same 0,0,0 point.

http://youtu.be/YVkUvmDQ3HY
Previous page123Next page