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Question about "sovereign space" and nullsec in general
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Katlyn Koreth

Deep Core Mining Inc.

Caldari State

Likes received: 13

#1 - 2014-12-15 00:41:46 UTC

So I have been playing for a month or so, and trying to look forward to some things I can do once I get comfortable with the game mechanics. Sovereign space sounds interesting.. but what exactly is it? And how does it impact gameplay?

From what I understand, it is player-controlled space in nullsec. Is all nullsec "controllable," or just some of it? How much is considered 'sovereign'?

How do corps/alliances hold onto it? What does maintaining it entail? What benefits does it provide?

Any help understanding this would be appreciated!

ShahFluffers

Ice Fire Warriors

Likes received: 11,726

#2 - 2014-12-15 01:14:09 UTC

Katlyn Koreth wrote:

Holding space requires resources and money. Some resources are more plentiful in some areas of the game while rare in others (ex. Moon materials that make Tech 2 equipment can only be found and harvested in low and null-sec space).

And when alliance-wide wars break out... the cost of resources, ships, and mods for everyone else in the game goes up by noticeable amounts... because wars both break things and disrupt stable lines of trade.

Katlyn Koreth wrote:

From what I understand, it is player-controlled space in nullsec. Is all nullsec "controllable," or just some of it? How much is considered 'sovereign'?

Terms to know:

Low-sec = 0.4 to 0.1 space... still considered NPC "empire space" but largely lawless. More organized player groups can run sections of this space like the mob, but nothing official or "set-in-stone."

Null-sec = 0.0 to -1.0 space... also known as "outlaw space" you have...
---- NPC-Sovereignty Space which us unclaimable by anyone and essentially functions just like low-sec but with no restrictions on anything (and stations can be docked at by anyone).
---- Player-claimable Sovereignty space where player alliances can put up their flag and say "dis mah lawn now!! Git outt!"

Most of null-sec space is "conquerable" by players. NPCs only hold on to maybe a couple hundred systems, at most (out of thousands of other potential systems)

Katlyn Koreth wrote:

How do corps/alliances hold onto it? What does maintaining it entail? What benefits does it provide?

To hold on to a 0.0 system you need...

- the collective ability to generate massive amounts of money and resources
- a large base of active players
- lots of combat-centric pilots
- lots of replacement ships
- shrewd diplomatic mind
- tactical knowhow
- high morale
- sheer force of will

Why do you need all these things?
Because a SOV battle can easily turn into something like this (warning: strong language).
NOTE: the link above is not an actual SOV battle... it was a "derp" moment caused by a 0.0 alliance that everyone in the game dogpiled into... but it gets the point across pretty well. Blink

As for the benefits... 0.0 space tends to hold greater opportunities for profit. Larger NPC bounties, more valuable rocks, rare "Officer" level mods, pirate ship blueprints, etc.
And if an alliance dumps enough money into a system they can "upgrade it" to provide even more rewards.

How did you Veterans start?

dark heartt

Likes received: 534

#3 - 2014-12-15 01:14:54 UTC | Edited by: dark heartt

Sov space is exactly what you said - nullsec space that players can take control of. Not all nullsec is able to be controlled by players, as there are areas referred to as NPC nullsec that are controlled by various NPC factions.

Alliances currently hold onto space with deployable structures. Maintaining is basically paying your bills and defending against people who are trying to destroy those structures. The benefits vary, but essentially it comes down to good income, fights and bragging rights.

Edit: the Evelopedia page lists the regions by either NPC 0.0 or Unaligned. The unaligned regions can be conquered by players.
https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/0.0

http://tetrisisunrealistic.blogspot.com.au/

Espenson

Native Freshfood

Minmatar Republic

Likes received: 24

#4 - 2014-12-15 01:24:28 UTC

Sovereign space are those systems in nullsec that can be claimed by players via a structure called a Territorial Control Unit. The vast majority of nullsec can be claimed by this mechanism except for systems designated NPC null; see Syndicate, Stain and pockets of Fountain for examples.

The effect on gameplay is that vast player coalitions have formed to claim nullsec, the most prominent of which are the N3 and the CFC. Control of space accrues ingame weatlh to the holding alliance. Hence, conflict between these entities is the defining feature of nullsec gameplay.

This system is not my area of expertise but involves a lot of shooting of the TCU and associated structures by large fleets. It is widely agreed by all participants that the mechanics are less than ideal and revision of them is a chief priority for CCP in coming releases.

Katlyn Koreth

Deep Core Mining Inc.

Caldari State

Likes received: 13

#5 - 2014-12-15 02:35:58 UTC | Edited by: Katlyn Koreth

Thanks a lot guys! One follow up question..

So, if you were flying in your alliances' own Sovereign space, you would essentially be safe, wouldn't you? Excepting the invasion of an enemy fleet, your space would theoretically be clear of enemies right?

I assume most of your corps time would be spent on non-pvp stuff inbetween fleet battles...mining, scanning, etc..?

Memphis Baas

Likes received: 3,085

#6 - 2014-12-15 03:11:28 UTC | Edited by: Memphis Baas

Safety is relative.

In high-sec space, CONCORD deters (doesn't prevent) attacks. In low-sec space, there is no CONCORD, but gates have sentry guns that may deter attacks. In null-sec space there is nothing, not even loss of sec. status if you attack someone. It's free for all.

Alliances claim space by deploying sovereignty structures in each solar system / constellation, and then defending them if necessary. This gives them the capability to install some extra modules at player-based stations (POS) around moons: system-wide cyno jammers, cyno-bridge elements, etc. It also lets them extract moon goo for manufacturing or sale. And finally, the larger capital ships cannot be constructed in a station, the building structure is deployed in sov. space and must be defended if attacked.

The space is still null-sec though. So defense falls to organized teams of players; there's typically an intel channel where you can report enemies that have entered the space, and hopefully there is a fleet of PVP'ers that can come kill those enemies. It's somewhat difficult to block small roaming groups of enemies though, so you're not guaranteed to be able to mine or rat in peace. Any enemy or neutral (non-alliance) pilot in local is potentially going to decloak unexpectedly and attack you, and possibly leave before the defense fleet can get there.

You rely a lot on the blue, red, or neutral standing markers displayed next to each pilot in local, and the standings are set at the alliance level. Who is blue (friend), who is red (enemy), and what the overall policy is towards neutrals (NBSI - kill neutrals, NRDS - assume they're ok until they attack you first). You rely on access to the alliance's POS towers and outposts for safe havens, and on your own safe spots for quick escapes.

ShahFluffers

Ice Fire Warriors

Likes received: 11,726

#7 - 2014-12-15 03:48:29 UTC | Edited by: ShahFluffers

Katlyn Koreth wrote:

So, if you were flying in your alliances' own Sovereign space, you would essentially be safe, wouldn't you? Excepting the invasion of an enemy fleet, your space would theoretically be clear of enemies right?

I assume most of your corps time would be spent on non-pvp stuff inbetween fleet battles...mining, scanning, etc..?

Memphis Baas wrote:

^^ Pretty much this.

To add to it... the space that your alliance claims is only as safe as everyone makes it. In 0.0 space, everything is a team effort.

You can set up intel channels where people can alert everyone in the alliance about hostiles roaming through the area**... if someone is in trouble... if there is a CTA (call to arms)... etc.

Ultimately though... being "safe" depends entirely on you. You can have the biggest, fastest standing army in the game but if you are flying a ship fit with no PvP in mind you can end up very dead before anyone can get to you.

**Note: there is no way to keep hostiles out of claimed space in any meaningful way short of a 24 hour camp at a chokepoint stargate... and even then, certain ships CAN get through.

With regards to activities... yes... people do spend a good amount of their time making money. But smart people tend to find ways to make it quick either by min/maxing their ships (at the risk of being useless if attacked by another player) or by teaming up with enough people to make the operation VERY efficient.

One last thing: every activity you take part in within this game is considered "PvP" in some sense.
You mined that asteroid? You have denied someone else the ability to harvest it.
You blew up that NPC? You have denied someone else the ability to collect the bounty (or any loot it may have dropped).
You ran that data/relic site? You have denied someone else the ability to collect the goods.
You sold your stuff cheaper? You have lowered the cost of that good for everyone else and collected money that would otherwise be in their pockets.
The list goes on.

Every action you take affects someone else in the game for better AND worse. And they can affect you in kind... in any way they deem fit.
There are no "good guys" here. Just "bad," "not so bad," and "WHY ARE YOU LAUGHING? SOMEONE CALL THE WAAAAAAAABULANCE!!" Twisted

How did you Veterans start?

Thomas Builder

Center for Advanced Studies

Gallente Federation

Likes received: 524

#8 - 2014-12-15 04:35:26 UTC

Katlyn Koreth wrote:

Well, no.

From a single player point of view, the only truly noticeable game-play effect of sovereignty is that non-alliance members are denied docking at the stations. (There are other effects, but that's more about structures - POS, Outposts, etc)

Other than that, things have to be done by human players. Cyno blockers prevent you from being hot-dropped, but no mechanic will stop a roaming fleet entering your territory through gates. Your alliance might gate-camp border systems, but again, this has to be done by human players and is rarely done 24/7, unless there's an active war. No CONCORD or so will show up to punish externals when they attack you in your space - your alliance might send a fleet of human pilots to help you, but unlike CONCORD, there's no guarantee that they will catch the intruders, nor that they will show up at all.

Of course, in the more active alliances, intruders will be reported early and hunted down quickly, making its space safer than some places in high-sec, but that's all player driven. You could do the same in low-sec, only, if you have a group organized enough to do so, you might as well go to null for better rewards.

Baneken

Arctic Light Inc.

Arctic Light

Likes received: 522

#9 - 2014-12-15 07:33:51 UTC

Katlyn Koreth wrote:

This depends entirely on the activity of your alliance ie. intel channels and how actively does your alliance chase the intruders.

J'Poll

School of Applied Knowledge

Caldari State

Likes received: 6,455

#10 - 2014-12-15 08:00:15 UTC | Edited by: J'Poll

Katlyn Koreth wrote:

* There is 2 types of null-sec. SOV null-sec and NPC null-sec. The first is a system that can be claimed by any player alliance, the latter has a fixed owner which is one of the NPC factions. The same counts for stations/outposts. Some are player owned (and thus can be set to only certain people can dock/use it) while the NPC stations are free for all to use.

* The majority of null-sec is of the SOV holding type.

There are some regions that are completely NPC, these are:
Venal (Guristas)
Great Wildlands (Thukker Tribe)
Curse (Angel Cartel)
Stain (Sansha)
Syndicate (Syndicate)
Outer Ring (ORE)

There are other then those some regions that also hold some NPC systems but for the rest are SOV systems:
Geminate (SoCT)
Delve (Blood Raiders)
Fountain (Serpentis)
Pure Blind (SoE & Mordu's Legion)

* You hold onto SOV as an alliance by placing SOV modules into a system (TCU and IHub). Which also of course can be contested and destroyed by anybody so they can claim the system. This system means you have to grind through the structures (and if there is an outpost in system, you have to grind through that too). However, currently CCP is in the process of altering this system (though no ETA in when "phase 2" is released).

All of this, also means you need a fairly decent size alliance that runs very smooth. You need to manpower to claim a system and after that, you need the manpower to actually defend it against anybody else that wants that system too.

* Maintaining it is nothing more then paying the monthly upkeep bill, which very occasionally is derped and you will see an alliance drop all SOV

.

* The benefits that it supplies:

* Warning if anybody anchors a POS on a moon.
* Sole ability to use planets for PI / anchor PoCo's
* Ability to moon mine.
* Ability to upgrade teh system through the IHub to provide it with better things (Industry, Ratting or SOV-stuff)

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club

J'Poll

School of Applied Knowledge

Caldari State

Likes received: 6,455

#11 - 2014-12-15 08:04:32 UTC | Edited by: J'Poll

Katlyn Koreth wrote:

NO....just No.

You are NEVER safe when in space. Period.

Even in friendly null-sec there is a risk.

* Invading enemy.
* Roaming groups of players
* People emerging from a WH
* Hell, even friendlies can be a threat (spies etc.).

Yes, between major wars, you could PvE. But you are never completely safe. Though with a good intel channel, you can be as safe as you possibly can get as you will get advanced warnings of incoming groups that don't use a WH to sneak in through the backdoor.

In null-sec there is only 1 rule, it's the rule you can enforce yourself with the end of your gun.
The same counts for safety. Don't provide it yourself, it won't be safe. The more pro-active you are to make it safe, the safer it will be. But this again comes at the trade off, that while you are making it safe, you ain't generating ISK...

That is for a lot of people a big downfall and they don't see it. A lot of people think that once they claimed a system and the war is over, they can go do PvE exclusively only to find out they get lots of roams through (NPC kills flag up your system, see below) and they do not provide any roams to let the system pass by cause it's heavily defended.

Then again, I have also seen groups that were the opposite way. They did camp gates every day, for hours on end. To the point nothing ever tried to came through and they grew bored and left to find a more target rich enviroment.

Also the location and type of your system does matter.

* A shallow null-sec system (so near high-sec / low-sec / NPC null-sec for easy fleet basing rights) will be more dangerous then a deep null-sec that will take time to get to)
* A fully upgraded system (be it Industry or Military) will attract attention.
* A system that for instance can make supers, will attract attention
* A system that is held by a small group of player without major connections, will attract attention.
* System that is flagged on dotlan by many NPC kills...will definately attract attention as it's very likely you can find a nice loot-pinata there (most ratters like to bling their ship).

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club

Alaric Faelen

Republic Military School

Minmatar Republic

Likes received: 513

#12 - 2014-12-15 18:58:06 UTC

Quote:

--J'Poll did a great job explaining already. So I won't rehash all that.

Owning sov is far less like actually having any sort of ownership than one might think. We can erect jump bridges, but those were nerfed into the ground. We can control who can dock in stations by setting standings.

But we cannot actually control entry to our space. We have no ability to place gate guns or early warning that our space is being violated. We cannot control the use of local PvE resources, and people often come to sov to use the upgraded PvE opportunities. We may already have POSs set up to get planetary resources, but those are destructible and enemies can anchor their own at any open moon.

In practice, sov functions very much like NPC null, and many of the benefits we enjoyed for having ground for and defended sov, are being nerfed out of existence by CCP. When you are unable to even do some simple ratting because some neutral parked an AFK cloaked ship in what is supposed to be YOUR system.....the concept of 'ownership' becomes fairly laughable.

In reality, I am safer in high sec than in systems my alliance 'owns'.

J'Poll

School of Applied Knowledge

Caldari State

Likes received: 6,455

#13 - 2014-12-15 19:14:00 UTC | Edited by: J'Poll

Alaric Faelen wrote:

Quote:

Question.

Is someone who is cloaked is AFK...how can he hurt you?

He isn't at his keyboard, so you are perfectly safe to do PvE

Oh, and the non-gate travel changes are NOT a nerf. They are a fix, only the powerblocks think it's normal to be able to move all your assets to the other side of the map in less then 2 hours time.

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club

Utari Onzo

Escalated.

OnlyFleets.

Likes received: 1,769

#14 - 2014-12-15 20:08:08 UTC

The only thing I can add to this discussion is /why/ people keep going to nullsec, and give you the perspective from a line member. You're unlikely to be leading a coalition conqouring swaves of nullsec soon, so the 'mechanics' of sov don't generally effect your day to day gameplay.

Content on a plate.

Between timers, pre-arranged 'regular' fleets and the occasional sov war, sov nullsec gives you content on a plate straight from your alliance/coalition fcs and leaders. Some people enjoy this style of game play, making isk when local's safe then jumping in to fleet as soon as it's pinged out. Some people call it Eve asy mode, and to a certain extent it is. As an individual, you don't need to 'do' very much of anything unless you want to work your way up through leadership, just turn up to fleets and go along with the show.

However, with the recent Phoebe changes, there is a 'shifting' in nullsec. Small gaps are starting to open up for smaller groups to have their slice of the 0.0 pie, so there MAY or MAY NOT be an option of being part of a more intimate/individual focused group where you can make a bigger impact as one person. This, of course, all depends if groups like Phoebe free port can make something happen in a sustained way that others can follow through with.

In general, if you like content handed to you, having a 'stable' home, a drip feed of organised fleets and making a steady income, nullsec is an attractive option. If you don't want to have to turn up and mash f1 where you're told, and when you're told, you might not enjoy it so much.

All the other advice about enemies still roaming systems while you try to rat, having to do structure grinding (which is boring as hell) etc apply.

"Face the enemy as a solid wall For faith is your armor And through it, the enemy will find no breach Wrap your arms around the enemy For faith is your fire And with it, burn away his evil"

Tau Cabalander

Retirement Retreat

Working Stiffs

Likes received: 6,913

#15 - 2014-12-15 21:30:38 UTC

J'Poll wrote:

The benefits that it supplies:
* Sole ability to use planets for PI / anchor PoCo's

You might want to check that. I think I heard that was recently changed. Uncertain.

J'Poll wrote:

* Ability to moon mine.

Not strictly a nulsec benefit, as it can be done in lowsec, but indeed nulsec moons can be more valuable.

Also, I'm shocked these haven't been linked yet:
* Sovereignty: http://dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/Verite/influence.png
* Coalitions: http://dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/coalitionsov/Coalitioninfluence.png