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OOC fleet boost while under war dec. Strange there is no consequence.
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Ratchet Conway
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2014-12-12 14:31:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Ratchet Conway
I'm of the understanding that you can be fleet boosted while engaging war targets by people who are not in your corp with no consequence. I've looked at several other posts, but they are from over a year ago (and are locked). I haven't tried it myself, so please excuse me if this mechanic has changed.

Every other type of direct out of corp support between war targets is rewarded with a suspect flag. I wonder why this is not the case with fleet boosts. If a fleet member attacks a war target during fleet ops - the suspect flag would allow the OOC people the opportunity to dock, especially in the current case where the fleet booster is in a "safe" location.

At this point, the proliferation of this particular technique makes it almost a requirement in order to be competitive in a high sec war as players would have to attack illegal targets in order to counter this. IMO, it is undermining the existing economic factors of these wars by providing a benefit of contributing while not actually paying the proper dues or risk to participate. Also, the "Has Offered Assistance" mechanic is also broken and unused to this same effect.

Again.. I haven't seen any discussion on the matter in over a year and those posts were locked without much discussion. Perhaps there is some trolling mechanic that is avoided by not flagging people who are fleet boosting that I don't see in my inexperience.
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#2 - 2014-12-12 14:44:32 UTC  |  Edited by: FT Diomedes
The short answer is that off grid boosting is hard for the devs to fix properly. This is only one of the many issues associated with it.

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2014-12-12 14:53:10 UTC
Easy fix: make boosts only work on-grid.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
Alundil
Rolled Out
#4 - 2014-12-12 15:15:11 UTC
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:
Easy fix: make boosts only work on-grid.

Yes, but as Diomedes mentioned - devs would like to do that but it's not easy to do. It's probably why their first pass at this was restricting what boosts could be run from within a POS shield instead of going to a grid based system.

OGB need to be fixed. I imagine that they will at some point. But there are obviously other priorities.

I'm right behind you
Ratchet Conway
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2014-12-12 15:23:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Ratchet Conway
Alundil wrote:
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:
Easy fix: make boosts only work on-grid.

Yes, but as Diomedes mentioned - devs would like to do that but it's not easy to do. It's probably why their first pass at this was restricting what boosts could be run from within a POS shield instead of going to a grid based system.

OGB need to be fixed. I imagine that they will at some point. But there are obviously other priorities.



I guess I'm glad CCP isn't one of those developers that waves the ban-wand with the magic word "exploit" when there is a mechanic they are having trouble correcting. -- will just have to wait I suppose.

I know it's off topic.. but what is OGB? I guessed that it meant the same as OP (Original Poster)
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#6 - 2014-12-12 15:24:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Harvey James
neutral boosts should be banned entirely, as should neutral logi, except for in incursion sites as they would be impossible too do without logi, at least in high sec wars.

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#7 - 2014-12-12 15:41:54 UTC
Ratchet Conway wrote:
Alundil wrote:
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:
Easy fix: make boosts only work on-grid.

Yes, but as Diomedes mentioned - devs would like to do that but it's not easy to do. It's probably why their first pass at this was restricting what boosts could be run from within a POS shield instead of going to a grid based system.

OGB need to be fixed. I imagine that they will at some point. But there are obviously other priorities.



I guess I'm glad CCP isn't one of those developers that waves the ban-wand with the magic word "exploit" when there is a mechanic they are having trouble correcting. -- will just have to wait I suppose.

I know it's off topic.. but what is OGB? I guessed that it meant the same as OP (Original Poster)

O.ff G.rid B.oosting.

Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

=]|[=
Ereshgikal
Wharf Crusaders
#8 - 2014-12-12 15:49:42 UTC
I was of the impression that if you joined fleet with someone in an active war you became a valid war target as well (including showing up in local chat with the war target icon). Since you have to be in fleet to provide boosts the booster is a valid war target. Thus I failed to see the problem with OOC.

This differs from OOC logi alts since they do not have to be in the same fleet in order to rep a friend.

"Just" have someone probe out the off-grid booster and shoot him to bits.

...although it all hinges on that sharing fleet spreads the wardec ebola to the booster.
Dirritat'z Demblin
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2014-12-12 16:21:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Dirritat'z Demblin
Ereshgikal wrote:
I was of the impression that if you joined fleet with someone in an active war you became a valid war target as well (including showing up in local chat with the war target icon). Since you have to be in fleet to provide boosts the booster is a valid war target.


Nope. Being in a fleet with someone who is at War aint make you a legit WT. So, OGB would not even need to be OffGrid; They can sit right next to the Battle or even provide warpins with the only risk being suicide gankers.

(In Highsec, that is. In low/0.0/WH OGB are also pretty common, but there you can take em down if you find them... and dont mind the SecHit in low. :) )
Antillie Sa'Kan
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#10 - 2014-12-12 16:26:40 UTC
If only boosting provided a suspect flag in the same way that reps do.

It wouldn't solve the off grid problem. But at least you could see them flashing in local and shoot them once you found them.
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#11 - 2014-12-12 16:35:40 UTC
Antillie Sa'Kan wrote:
If only boosting provided a suspect flag in the same way that reps do.

It wouldn't solve the off grid problem. But at least you could see them flashing in local and shoot them once you found them.


What's interesting to me about this is that during a fleet fight earlier this week, my OGB received bounty payments for some of the hostiles we killed, but never any kind of PVP timer or flag.

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#12 - 2014-12-12 16:58:26 UTC
suspect boosting would be nice, if i cant have boosts removed altogether lol.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Ersahi Kir
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#13 - 2014-12-12 18:20:58 UTC
So obvious situation:

A mining fleet is up with an orca. Someone asks if they can join fleet to get boosts, and in the effort of being social the fleet accepts the new member.

Of course, the person docks up after a load of ore, joins a corp in a war dec, undocks, and all his buddies gank the orca.

End result: reason to be even less social in a game built on social interactions. If you don't like off grid boosting go to low/null for your PvP, don't whine about high sec PvP rules.
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#14 - 2014-12-12 21:23:29 UTC
Ersahi Kir wrote:
So obvious situation:

A mining fleet is up with an orca. Someone asks if they can join fleet to get boosts, and in the effort of being social the fleet accepts the new member.

Of course, the person docks up after a load of ore, joins a corp in a war dec, undocks, and all his buddies gank the orca.

End result: reason to be even less social in a game built on social interactions. If you don't like off grid boosting go to low/null for your PvP, don't whine about high sec PvP rules.

To be fair, Green safety settings 'should' stop that. But that also screws with boosts till they work out which of their fleet happen to be a WT and kick them.
Rroff
Antagonistic Tendencies
#15 - 2014-12-12 22:50:07 UTC
Off grid links are usually paper thin - scan em down and suicide gank them - on a t3 you'll pretty much always win the ISK war.
Ratchet Conway
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#16 - 2014-12-13 00:52:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Ratchet Conway
Ersahi Kir wrote:
So obvious situation:

A mining fleet is up with an orca. Someone asks if they can join fleet to get boosts, and in the effort of being social the fleet accepts the new member.

Of course, the person docks up after a load of ore, joins a corp in a war dec, undocks, and all his buddies gank the orca.

End result: reason to be even less social in a game built on social interactions. If you don't like off grid boosting go to low/null for your PvP, don't whine about high sec PvP rules.



This would be an obvious situation if it didn't also require that person to find a war target and attack it. I suppose, if we are going to be paranoid, 2 corps could be set up do to this type of thing. But honestly--very quickly those corps would lose standing against everyone who is a large scale miner.

So the answer would be to create 2 new corps every couple of weeks. and wardec them just to hunt orcas.
--------I don't know the cost directly, but I'm almost certain it is cost prohibitive for high sec ore without large scale cooperation.

Personally, if this was a thing--I would actually welcome it. It shows a level of creativity and social interaction that is commensurate with all successful and fun experiences within Eve. No social interaction is destroyed, in fact--new ones are created.


OGB isn't social interaction, it is something for your sidekick account to do for you. -- 2 people are partners - not a team. 2 people are a relationship -- not a community.
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#17 - 2014-12-13 01:08:51 UTC
Ratchet Conway wrote:
Ersahi Kir wrote:
So obvious situation:

A mining fleet is up with an orca. Someone asks if they can join fleet to get boosts, and in the effort of being social the fleet accepts the new member.

Of course, the person docks up after a load of ore, joins a corp in a war dec, undocks, and all his buddies gank the orca.

End result: reason to be even less social in a game built on social interactions. If you don't like off grid boosting go to low/null for your PvP, don't whine about high sec PvP rules.



This would be an obvious situation if it didn't also require that person to find a war target and attack it. I suppose, if we are going to be paranoid, 2 corps could be set up do to this type of thing. But honestly--very quickly those corps would lose standing against everyone who is a miner.

So the answer would be to create 2 new corps every couple of weeks. and wardec them just to hunt orcas.
--------I don't know the cost directly, but I'm almost certain it is cost prohibitive for high sec without large scale cooperation.

Personally, if this was a thing--I would actually welcome it. It shows a level of creativity and social interaction that is commensurate with all successful and fun experiences within Eve. No social interaction is destroyed, in fact--new ones are created.


OGB isn't social interaction.... it is something for your sidekick account to do for you. -- 2 people are partners.. not a team. 2 people are a relationship -- not a community.


It's very easy to find your own alt and attack it. And what do standings have to do with anything anyway? You wouldn't need to cycle corps at all. At most, you'd cycle low SP retriever alts
Dirritat'z Demblin
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#18 - 2014-12-13 02:00:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Dirritat'z Demblin
Rroff wrote:
Off grid links are usually paper thin - scan em down and suicide gank them - on a t3 you'll pretty much always win the ISK war.


Good Luck ganking a OffGrid-Damnation (67K EHP)

The easy solution is; Get your on OGB to get the same benefit. However; thats prety much the opposite of "newbe-friendly". I'm using OGBs because its pointless to engage targets without one. So, thats some kind of "Pointless, self-enforcing-Cycle"; You cant, so you don't, until you can.", just to get the same level of efficience as before the cycle.
Rroff
Antagonistic Tendencies
#19 - 2014-12-13 02:17:53 UTC
^^ Perfectly doable, just harder to do and come out on top ISK wise.
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#20 - 2014-12-13 02:42:50 UTC
Rroff wrote:
^^ Perfectly doable, just harder to do and come out on top ISK wise.


The problem, as it always is in High Security space, is Concord. If they changed the penalty for criminal action from ship death to something that actually deterred criminal behavior, then "neutral alts" wouldn't be a problem.

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

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