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Foolproof method to prevent the suicide gank
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Bisclavret Lais
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#61 - 2011-12-16 20:56:22 UTC
Pavel Bidermann wrote:

HAHAHAHAHA!
Orly?

I don't think you understand this whole "high sec" thing, or how it ties in with everything else.
Or maybe just a troll?


You mean how you feel entitled to an absolutely safe space, even though it has been stated repeatedly that High Sec is in fact not safe, just relatively so?
Minister of Death
Colossus Enterprises
#62 - 2011-12-16 21:06:27 UTC
so much inane idiocy makes baby jesus cry
IGNATIUS HOOD
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#63 - 2011-12-16 21:42:58 UTC
In the spirit of a wonderfully cryptic post I present to you a Haiku I call

'ode to the miner'

high sec mining
a target
the black of space
waiting to die
"Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats."   --H.L. Mencken
Fallenlassen
#64 - 2011-12-16 21:50:39 UTC
'99% of all EVE 'PvP' is ganks

Some form of ganking, suicide ganks, blob ganks, gate camp ganks, hot drop ganks.

This is because basically all, with few exceptions of EVE's PVPers are scared of losing their ship, either because of ISK or because it will appear on their KB...

PATHETIC

Hurr look at me I killed a hauler, wanna fight about it? Ok outside station with my logi friends.

Even RvB has some of this and those are mostly alts Durr I have 120m SP, sure I'll 1v1 you new player, let me jump to my slave set.

If it wasn't this way, why is solo people non existent? Why are all of the things I said above true on their face?

'Carebears' are only rational about it and not so pathetically hypocritical that they need to gank people to hide their short comings, claiming they're 'hardcurr peeveepeer'
IGNATIUS HOOD
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#65 - 2011-12-16 22:04:08 UTC
Fallenlassen wrote:
'99% of all EVE 'PvP' is ganks

Some form of ganking, suicide ganks, blob ganks, gate camp ganks, hot drop ganks.

This is because basically all, with few exceptions of EVE's PVPers are scared of losing their ship, either because of ISK or because it will appear on their KB...

PATHETIC

Hurr look at me I killed a hauler, wanna fight about it? Ok outside station with my logi friends.

Even RvB has some of this and those are mostly alts Durr I have 120m SP, sure I'll 1v1 you new player, let me jump to my slave set.

If it wasn't this way, why is solo people non existent? Why are all of the things I said above true on their face?

'Carebears' are only rational about it and not so pathetically hypocritical that they need to gank people to hide their short comings, claiming they're 'hardcurr peeveepeer'


Leap to over generalizing much? Lol

EVE is a fleet game not a solo game you only have to look at the ships in the game to see that. IMO thier is no perfect solo platform and as a result solo ops are really uncomfortable fits for most. Frankly you need friends in this game to make things work. The problem is EVE is a mirror to the true human condition. It shows that we (at least most of the people who play this game) will turn into animals the first time the rule of law is lifted and we are given free will. Make no mistake a gank suicide or otherwise carries no penalty. No I'm not advocating that this should be changed in fact I applaud the idea. Unfortunately this is one of the consequences.

The only way this is fixed is if the community, mainly the ones tired of it happening to them, band together and show a bit of teamwork to stop it from occurring.
"Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats."   --H.L. Mencken
Kahega Amielden
Rifterlings
#66 - 2011-12-16 22:39:40 UTC
Quote:
Try to fit a MEDIUM shield extender on a MEDIUM size mining bark hull (Retriver).
Try to fit a CAPITAL repair system on a CAPTIAL industrial ship (Orca).


Orcas are not caps.

Retrievers can't fit a tank, but that's more than made up for by the fact that they are basically free. If you want to complain about mining boats being vulnerable, complain about the expensive ones at least.
Baden Luskan
Freeworlds Collective
#67 - 2011-12-16 22:44:45 UTC
Serene Repose wrote:
After giving this a lot of intelligent consideration, I finally decided the FOOL proof way to avoid suicide ganks is....

...to not play at all.

When I log, I sort through all my valuables, look admiringly at my wallet balance, queue up some training...get frustrated at how LONG that takes...march myself around my quarters a while, drag my ships into the hangar to admire them, then I log off.

Since management is firmly planted in the "Let the Sociopaths Rule" position (sort of bent over...hands on knees...pants down...you know the drill)...it's FOOLISH to play Russian Roulette (sorry all you Rooskies out there) with your hard-earned assets on an endless merry-go-round of replacing ships you can afford to lose.

Now, I know that may not make sense to some of you out there. That's okay. It does make sense to a lot more of us than you might think, and for obvious reasons...which (of course) are lost on a LOT of people who think they're pretty smart.

Cool


I think you hit the nail on the head. With as much isk a miner loses when he loses his ship, the person doing the ganking is losing, at most, 1/4 of the value. Add into the equation the groups like goons who will reimburse alot of the ganker's investment for the kill and you have a situation where the little guy is at a huge disvantage.
Kahega Amielden
Rifterlings
#68 - 2011-12-16 22:48:42 UTC
OP:

[Hulk, Mining]
Pseudoelectron Containment Field I
Mining Laser Upgrade II

Invulnerability Field II
Invulnerability Field II
Survey Scanner II
Small Shield Extender II

Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal II
Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal II
Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal II

Medium Core Defence Field Extender I
Medium Core Defence Field Extender I


Vespa EC-600 x5

You're welcome.
Marlona Sky
State War Academy
Caldari State
#69 - 2011-12-16 22:51:22 UTC
Only cowards suicide gank...
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#70 - 2011-12-16 23:02:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Jojo Jackson wrote:
Solstice Project wrote:
Laws do not protect anybody, they only punish people.
That's the point ... where is the punishment?

Even -10 sec status Criminals have nothing to fear.

CONCORD destroys their ships over and over and over and over .... and over again and NOTHING happens.
Is CONCORD realy THAT stupid and can't catch them to arest them?
No. CONCORD is 100% proficient at its job. Its job is not to catch outlaws.

If -10 sec pilots have nothing to fear, it's because you failed at your job. Don't blame others for your own failures.
Freezehunter wrote:
You forgot that IRL, the law actually works, and you are somewhat protected against these things.
Nah. Other way around: IRL the law can be avoided, and sometimes it just plain fails to work even if you're in the right; in EVE the law and its consequences are absolute certainties (and if you somehow manage to avoid it, the Hand Of God terminates your existence).
Solstice Project wrote:
Quote:
Besides, you can't get scammed IRL if you are not a gullible idiot.
In 5 years of playing this game, I've never been scammed or suicide ganked.
Bullshit. Everybody can and will get scammed and saying you never got scammed makes you look like a liar.
…and yet, the game is full of people who have never been scammed (because they're so easy to avoid) or suicide ganked (ditto).
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#71 - 2011-12-16 23:03:41 UTC
I am not sure if it's true that all of the miners in high sec think they are entitled to 100 percent safe high sec.

But there is plenty of evidence that the "other players" think they are entitled to targets.


It would still be curious to see if miners formed a union and went on strike - if that would affect the cost of ships. But solidarity in an MMO is like trying to get neckbeards on the internet to cooperate... oh wait...

Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#72 - 2011-12-16 23:11:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
It would still be curious to see if miners formed a union and went on strike - if that would affect the cost of ships. But solidarity in an MMO is like trying to get neckbeards on the internet to cooperate... oh wait...

Nah. Scabs alone would scuttle that effort, and that's before we get into how miners have been usurped as the providers of minerals…
Nullbeard Rager
Doomheim
#73 - 2011-12-17 00:13:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Nullbeard Rager
Bisclavret Lais wrote:
First of all, i am not sure if you are serious. But for the sake of "intelligent consideration" i will intelligently consider giving you the benefit of the doubt.

You know, with all the "sociopath" nerfs we have seen lately, there has been quite a bit of joking around about how griefer tears are the most ironically delicious tears, etc.
And really, that is fine. CCP might be blatantly catering to the carebear population right now but that just means adapt or die. Those of us that enjoy what we do will still find a way to do what we do best. Keeping High Sec interesting.

What really irritates me though, is that you guys still keep on whining. CCP has thrown you almost any bone that was ever even remotely feasible. High Sec has been mollified to a degree that any half-competent player is for all intents and purposes untouchable. It has come to the point that it feels like we are only preying on the mentally challenged.

Seriously. I can't even enjoy these tears. It is just too pathetic.


It's a troll brah, relax.

You should be relaxed since you must be smoking something good to think that CCP has bent over for PVE players like they have for PVP players, yeh?

Field of Trolls:  "If you chum it, they will come."
Nullbeard Rager
Doomheim
#74 - 2011-12-17 00:22:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Nullbeard Rager
Killstealing wrote:
Freezehunter wrote:
Sturmwolke wrote:
Fool proof way of not getting scammed or ganked in RL is ...
... to just not live at all.

Don't you agree?


You forgot that IRL, the law actually works


lol, concord always catches the perp while 20% of police cases are solved

concord > poliss


Lol and 99% of statistics are made up on the spot.Roll

You got that statistic of the internet didn't you?P

Field of Trolls:  "If you chum it, they will come."
Samillian
Angry Mustellid
#75 - 2011-12-17 01:05:54 UTC
Fallenlassen wrote:
'99% of all EVE 'PvP' is ganks

Some form of ganking, suicide ganks, blob ganks, gate camp ganks, hot drop ganks.

This is because basically all, with few exceptions of EVE's PVPers are scared of losing their ship, either because of ISK or because it will appear on their KB...

PATHETIC

Hurr look at me I killed a hauler, wanna fight about it? Ok outside station with my logi friends.

Even RvB has some of this and those are mostly alts Durr I have 120m SP, sure I'll 1v1 you new player, let me jump to my slave set.

If it wasn't this way, why is solo people non existent? Why are all of the things I said above true on their face?

'Carebears' are only rational about it and not so pathetically hypocritical that they need to gank people to hide their short comings, claiming they're 'hardcurr peeveepeer'



I suggest your point of view has more to do with your paranoia and wish to troll than with any real experience on your part.

Having lived in HiSec for almost 65% of my time in EvE and still running trade and industry alts there as well as PvPing regularly in Null sec with a Sov holding Alliance I can say you appear to have no real idea what PvP or even HiSec is like.

NBSI shall be the whole of the Law
Disdaine
#76 - 2011-12-17 02:11:31 UTC
Thomas Abernathy wrote:
Disdaine wrote:
Thomas Abernathy wrote:
Try learning the game mechanics and using them against the gankers that bother you, it's actually a lot of fun.


That's all well and good.

Reminds me of the time my freighter/indy alt was travelling Amarr to Jita in a fast frigate. Warp to 0 on a gate and get taken out by a -10 sec nanophoon smartbombing the gate. Lost a billion worth of +5's and wires.

Spose I should've sought retribution by trying to ram him with a Charon. That'll learn him.



If your that risk adverse, this is probably not the game for you....Shocked

Just sayin...


I have no problem with the risk. It's the suicide gankers that are risk averse. They know full well that the miners they're blowing up aren't going to come hunting them down.

In fact weren't there lots of complaints recently when their insurance payout was taken away making their endeavours just that little bit more risky?

Of course I can imagine the outrage at the thought of a suicide ganker being hunted down by a miners combat alt on their way to their next "fight".
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#77 - 2011-12-17 02:16:46 UTC
Disdaine wrote:
In fact weren't there lots of complaints recently when their insurance payout was taken away making their endeavours just that little bit more risky?
Not from the gankers, no. They just said ”meh, makes no difference” about it.
Serene Repose
#78 - 2011-12-17 09:29:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Serene Repose
Bisclavret Lais wrote:
You mean how you feel entitled to an absolutely safe space, even though it has been stated repeatedly that High Sec is in fact not safe, just relatively so?


This sort of mischaracterization for the purpose of falsely representing what's being discussed is so reprehensible it belongs in the U.S. Congress...or, on FOX News. Making suicide ganking costly to the ganker, rather, isn't exactly making space safe for anyone. If it's safe NOW it's safe for the gankers. The gankee is the only one who pays a real price for it.

This contorted pretense at reasoning you choose to use does resemble well the logic CCP apparently used in setting up this crime and punishment system - the criminal gets the reward, the victim pays the price. Anyone that argues against that is either a slave to absurdity or just a flat out liar (who either suicide ganks, or wants that option left open in case they need something to fall back on.)

Space is UNSAFE enough with legitimate uses of interstellar violence. There are quite a few of these, and arguing this particular ONE of a dozen isn't (to belabor the point) asking for space to be perfectly safe. (Say that to yourselves three or four times till it sinks through those thick skulls...then, nobody can really be THAT stupid, so again, the argument against is disingenous for self-serving purposes.)

FURTHERMORE, so what if suicide ganking costs as much as being the gankee? After all, the arguments FOR aren't about low-risk, quick and dirty profit. (Talk about playing it safe.) They're always about the FUN involved. So, have fun with it, but PAY for it. That's all that's being said from that quarter.

My post is merely a recipe for AVOIDING the suicide gank. So, people, take note. How those straying from the subject with typical arrogance and 'tude (while accusing their opposition of arrogance and 'tude) reveal who's sincere about their position in this, and who's just trying to blow smoke up everyone else's...you know.

We must accommodate the idiocracy.
Valei Khurelem
#79 - 2011-12-17 09:48:46 UTC
If this game were more about player skill and interaction than what ship or loadout you go with ( and don't try to convince me I'm wrong, please folks because you know it's true ) then we wouldn't NEED to worry about gankers. In fact just being in a large group tends to scare most of these cowards off in one mining op I was on there was so many of us with drones out that a guy got blown up instantly without any help from CONCORD the moment he tried attacking us and I hadn't even realised he was there. The only reason that gankers exist is because they can pick out easy targets and the game mechanics that have been put in place mean that most of the time you can't have any retribution against them for it, this game aids gankers.

Maybe CCP should consider ditching world of darkness and create an entirely new version of EVE that's completely based around player skill and I mean completely and experiment by removing CONCORD as well to see what happens. I don't understand why developers are so dead set on having one play style or one type of game in their universe if people would find it more fun to experiment.

I of course wouldn't advocate just wiping this game and replacing it entirely, that'd be stupid, since there are people who enjoy this sort of thing and I personally don't find the non-combat side of the game too bad, I'm actually pretty interested in invention when I get the chance but regardless. It's something for CCP to consider, in an FPS like Counter-Strike if you are skilled enough you can take out an entire team if you use stealth or guerilla tactics just like real life, I want to be able to do that in a space game for once.

*sighs and looks at miner wars woefully*

"don't get us wrong, we don't want to screw new players, on the contrary. The core problem here is that tech 1 frigates and cruisers should be appealing enough to be viable platforms in both PvE and PvP."   - CCP Ytterbium
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#80 - 2011-12-17 11:39:56 UTC
Serene Repose wrote:
This contorted pretense at reasoning you choose to use does resemble well the logic CCP apparently used in setting up this crime and punishment system - the criminal gets the reward, the victim pays the price.
…except that the criminal pays the price — twice if the victim chooses so. If the criminal doesn't pay anything, it's because the victim has decided to waive his costs.
Quote:
Space is UNSAFE enough with legitimate uses of interstellar violence.
Seeing as how it's ridiculously safe, even including the legitimate use that is suicide ganking, this isn't really true. It could be made far less safe without any ill effects.
Quote:
My post is merely a recipe for AVOIDING the suicide gank.
No. Your post is a recipe for cutting off your nose to spite your face — avoiding suicide ganks requires so much less than what you're proposing.