Science & Industry

Glad to see that this poorly implemented feature will be removed, until such time as it can be properly designed. There was simply no good reason to rush this into Crius.

With the more frequent 6-week release cycle, no new feature or major change should ever need to be forced to meet a specific release time. If it takes a year to get right, then let it take a year. Or more.

It is just unfortunate that the other bad industry overhaul features of Crius cannot also be easily reversed, so that CCP can recover the many casual industry players who left the game and took their sub money elsewhere.

As minor but dedicated industrialists we bid for Teams on our two biggest lines. The Spreadsheet has calculators that tell the CEO (me) when to stop bidding. Most times we lose due to sniping, but we win often enough to make it worth trying. There is presently only one other Industrial Corp in our busy home system that uses teams, for stuff we don't manufacture ourselves.

From our point of view they are an added complexity that doesn't really add anything to the fun. If they are taking up Dev time then meh, by all means scrap them.

I like the fact that teams give an edge to those that are prepared to do the work calculating if they're worth it. However, I think teams in general are a pretty frustrating mechanic. It's annoying to have to set an alarm, it's annoying to be sniped at the last second.

I'd much prefer to see a system such as having to hire a new "recruit" team that sits in the station/hangar. The more jobs of a type you do the more skilled that team becomes. Perhaps higher quality teams (that have a higher potential) can be found through missions/sites etc. Oh and these teams would only work for you or your corp!

Excerpts fromt he Teams DEVBLOG:

A specialized team resides in a solar system and can be used by anyone doing a job in that system, including in POSes. The teams thus act as a counter-balance to the cost scaling – the presence of a good team can offset the increased cost in operating in an active system.


The dramatic changes to the cost of industry jobs, as outlined by CCP Greyscale in his dev blog, adds another layer to the landscape, one that will rival the distance to market and security level in shaping the industrial landscape. In fact, if we do nothing but the cost scaling changes, we’re encouraging players to spread industry activity out as much as they can, which is not ideal. That is where the team system comes in.


How can you remove this single important element of industry and not tweak the other parts to compensate??

Yes, we need teams, CCP should implement a foremen and a managers to hire too. They of course need to be in different systems and once in a blue moon you can actually hire them. Yes that would be awesome?!



Stop making Eve more and more complicated and read your bug reports.

Hire them to come to you.

Simple.

Perhaps if I better understood the intended purpose of teams I would have a better sense of why they aren't fulfilling that purpose.

For my part, I use them a lot. Mind you I never actually bid on them, but I've actually enjoyed jumping a couple of extra systems away from Jita to get that 2.5% savings on a big job. I feel it makes medium scale indy a lot more interesting.

That said, I can understand why only a narrow group of players are using them (like me). Industry dabblers aren't going to worry about teams because they don't want to bother learning the system and they get very little benefit, and that's fine. Really large scale industrial corps aren't going to worry about teams because it's too much of a hassle to relocate 10B ISK of industry to get a slight increase, and that's fine too.

Anyway, I'll be sorry to see them go. It'll make my supply chain a lot easier to manage, but I'm not sure that's going to be as much fun.

Edited: Yes, every single time saving bonus is pointless.

I might have a heart attack... First the skills training change then the clone change now the removal of a feature... I can't say I'm all that disappointed. In fact I think I'll take this opertunity to say THANK YOU! Finally tackling some of the issues with EVE. Good or bad things are changing. I know I appriciated the lift on the 24 hour skill limit and the change to clones I'm neutral to. On one hand it takes away the death without a proper clone penalty. On the other it saves people loads of wasted time if they are poded with a less than optimal sp clone at the ready. Now the removal of a feature is ultra rare but I never knew anyone that used it anyway and I myself like the idea of teams for indy but there are loads more improvments that can make the game more immersive and diverse than teams. I'm just glad to see CCP finally taking some bold steps to improve the game.

Your doing GREAT! Fix the nightmare texture please with the new PBR lighting it looks a bit dull. The ishkur on the other hand is so shiny I think I can see my reflection while I'm sitting at my computer, I love it. Thank you for Thera by the way.

Chisa May,
Don't worry industry will still be plenty complex for you to tackle without teams. As for the other stuff to me those are huge changes which help EVE overall. Some features have been dumbed down a bit yes but those that have been dumbed down were things that really shouldn't be that complex to begin with. The market is hugly complex, null sec and all the things that go with that are complex, ship fitting (provided you don't use a site to get fits from) is complex just to name a few. The initiative from CCP to add ships recently has been amazing and very sorly needed. With every ship pvp, pve, and all things in between become more complex and fun to play with. So don't worry EVE will continue to be a complex game with plenty of content to keep you intrested for a long period of time. Remember if you ever get board in high sec just come to NULL!

I looked at a lot of the responses, and while I have nothing unique to contribute I wanna add in my 2 isk.

For production, if you want to squeeze all the isk that you can out of a job, finding the right team for what you want and hauling all the goods can be a pain in the ass. For research, I lamented that most of the teams I found for what I was researching gave a measly 1% to this or 2% to that, and the say 20% to frigate research time (with another 5% to small class) was so rare that I briefly considered buying up a few frigate BPOs just to research them with the bonuses.

My two cents is thus-
Increase the 1% and 2% to a minimum of 5%. That's how skills work, that's how higher meta/tier modules work, and that's how so many other things work. If you don't have Skill V, and only have skill IV, the higher meta this or that will make up for it, and give the equivalent of an extra level of skill cooked into its bonuses.

With the difference between 28d 14 hours and 28d 1 hour is significant (I get that done a whole half a day earlier), it doesn't FEEL significant. Moreover, if it would finish in the dead of night while I'm sleeping... we're back to Old Legacy (TM) skill queues from way back when. Set alarm for 1AM.

The 1-2% bonus for 10% extra isk never feels worth it, and I think the reason that nobody uses it is because they know that. They did the napkin math and it's going to negatively impact their bottom line.

For chartered teams, I haven't looked into it much but I keep seeing sniping issues. Get it 1 second before it closes and you win. Same deal as above- set alarm for 2AM.


I'm seeing the problem that the teams only seem to be set towards medium size industry applications that can get a profit out of the 2.5% savings, but not so big that relocating assets would run the risk of being shot. Too small, and the savings is too miniscule. Too big, and they already own POSes anyway.

I suggest a larger range (not just system or station, but perhaps 1-4 jumps) and bigger base bonus. Bring up the 20%s more often!

Although I don't consider myself an expert, this is exactly what I see as the biggest problem with teams as currently implemented.
Unfortunately, I am a medium scale industrialist, so I will miss teams terribly.

Another problem is the same issue of false choice that is being addressed with named modules now. Hardly anyone is going to use 0.5-1.5% savings teams, and it's really tough to sort through all of the trash teams to find the decent 2.0-7.5% savings opportunities. (Yes, I know that 7.5% savings teams are really 7.375% savings teams)